GH2017 - Bonesplitterz Discussion

[TheNotebookGM]

Did the updated battalion points get leaked anywhere? 

[Strammefar]

Did the updated battalion points get leaked anywhere? 

Yeah, search for the pictures from the french GH17.

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[meet.the.doctor]

**MOD EDIT - As per the below, no leaked photos please. Chris** 

 

[TheNotebookGM]

22 hours ago, meet.the.doctor said:

**MOD EDIT - As per the below, no leaked photos please. Chris** 

 

Sorry @Chris Tomlinthat was my bad, I hadn't seen that post yet. I'd seen zounds of pics so I didn't realize it wasn't a thing.

[warhead01]

On 8/21/2017 at 10:57 AM, Centuryslayer said:

The arrowboyz being battleline is kinda nuts but are the other units that good that they too needed a pts hike? I've only played around 650pts and I've never won once

I'm just hoping they really don't perform well on lower pts.

Arrow boys are Battle line now?  That's madness! 
So...I should get 30 more then... 

Not going to beat the Dead horse of Points increases for battalions. I enjoyed the Kunning rulkk when I have used it bu I totally see that it's too much in smaller games.  It is what it is.  
The only thing I am not sure I like is Mobs no longer capping out at 40. 
Oh well. 

[SolarBur]

I don't understand the unit sizes going down for the savage orruk units. That's what seems to be being said here, so i assume its true. I can understand the unit sizes dropping for the archers. But dropping the unit size down to 30 on units of regular savage orruks seems to be a bit cruel, given that they lose their 30 man bonus after taking 1 casualty. And 2 wound models or not, its not difficult to kill a savage orruk. 

Points increases and battalion increases are fair game. Given how many people seemed to be tossing around the one trick of kunning rukk, i'm not really bothered about that nerf. Just means the way can be paved for more lists for bonesplitterz than just the usual go to strategy. 

[bonzai]

4 hours ago, SolarBur said:

I don't understand the unit sizes going down for the savage orruk units. That's what seems to be being said here, so i assume its true. I can understand the unit sizes dropping for the archers. But dropping the unit size down to 30 on units of regular savage orruks seems to be a bit cruel, given that they lose their 30 man bonus after taking 1 casualty. And 2 wound models or not, its not difficult to kill a savage orruk. 

Points increases and battalion increases are fair game. Given how many people seemed to be tossing around the one trick of kunning rukk, i'm not really bothered about that nerf. Just means the way can be paved for more lists for bonesplitterz than just the usual go to strategy. 

Darn, I had forgotten the 30 model bonus for normal boys. That does suck.

Then again, why would you take normal boys now?

[someone2040]

4 hours ago, SolarBur said:

I don't understand the unit sizes going down for the savage orruk units. That's what seems to be being said here, so i assume its true. I can understand the unit sizes dropping for the archers. But dropping the unit size down to 30 on units of regular savage orruks seems to be a bit cruel, given that they lose their 30 man bonus after taking 1 casualty. And 2 wound models or not, its not difficult to kill a savage orruk. 

Points increases and battalion increases are fair game. Given how many people seemed to be tossing around the one trick of kunning rukk, i'm not really bothered about that nerf. Just means the way can be paved for more lists for bonesplitterz than just the usual go to strategy. 

I would probably assume it's because they have 2 wounds each. So at 40 models, it would be 80 wounds in a single unit.

Perhaps GW felt that was too much, especially for a unit which can get 6++ saves from their allegiance ability.

Most infantry units in the game seem like they cap out around 60 wounds in a single unit and I don't think there's any unit with 2+ wounds with a max size greater than 30.

 

[SolarBur]

2 hours ago, bonzai said:

Darn, I had forgotten the 30 model bonus for normal boys. That does suck.

Then again, why would you take normal boys now?

Well I've always taken normal boys, even over arrowboys and maniaks. No real reason i just did, kind of like i was building a force based around the basic infantry and then supporting it with the rest of the army. They weren't the greatest in combat, but they did the trick. The cap at 30 when they have an ability at 30 just seemed like a poor choice

1 hour ago, someone2040 said:

I would probably assume it's because they have 2 wounds each. So at 40 models, it would be 80 wounds in a single unit.

Perhaps GW felt that was too much, especially for a unit which can get 6++ saves from their allegiance ability.

Most infantry units in the game seem like they cap out around 60 wounds in a single unit and I don't think there's any unit with 2+ wounds with a max size greater than 30.

 

I see what you mean. 

The problem is though, that it would be 80 wounds with just a 6+ save (5+ in combat), bravery 5, and if we went by the points that they seem to be in GH17, 480pts. Say if at 40 we got the cheaper unit it would have probably been 450pts. 

I can understand the 30 max for a 2 wound unit, but have the 30 bonus rule gone now for our angry rabble for the sake of a casualty just sucks now. And i don't really think it is too much. Always getting a 6+ save is nice, but its not something that keeps them alive. After all there are units that have better armour and also better saves against mortal wounds. Warriors of Chaos. 

Honestly I think this was a bit of a mistep when taking a units rules into account. But we will just have to see what happens ^^;;;

I do still look forward to seeing how people will build their lists now with points going up and unit caps going down. And what would make for good allies for savages. While it seems strange to be able to take allies, I like to think of them not as allies but as the savage orruks stumbling into their fight and just coincidently helping them. Seems more fluffy that way

[Pedro_L]

6 hours ago, bonzai said:

Then again, why would you take normal boys now?

Over on the Facebook Bonesplitterz group people are quite optimistic about Morboys now being battleline. Their extra attack and point of bravery makes the shields you get with ordinary boys negligible. Could be pretty nasty in a 30 man unit buffed by some of the advantages in Kop Rukk and Brutal Beast Spirits. 

[meet.the.doctor]

Over on the Facebook Bonesplitterz group people are quite optimistic about Morboys now being battleline. Their extra attack and point of bravery makes the shields you get with ordinary boys negligible. Could be pretty nasty in a 30 man unit buffed by some of the advantages in Kop Rukk and Brutal Beast Spirits. 

There is a facebook group for Bonesplitterz?
Allies is something that we were missing a lot. I always hoped for the possibility to sneak in Warboss (on Boar + Banner) and Weirdnob(for the Foot of Gork- 20 boyz around for +2 to cast and Vortex for another +1 and 36" range).
Warboss gives our army A LOT of melee possibilities(+1 melee attack which will add 2 attacks for boars, re-rolling wounds). If he won't be survivable I will switch him to Wyvern one.
But as I am building mine I can feel he will lead the naked brothers to victory.



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[bonzai]

12 hours ago, Pedro_L said:

Over on the Facebook Bonesplitterz group people are quite optimistic about Morboys now being battleline. Their extra attack and point of bravery makes the shields you get with ordinary boys negligible. Could be pretty nasty in a 30 man unit buffed by some of the advantages in Kop Rukk and Brutal Beast Spirits. 

Moreboys I can get behind, and will be using them in my new list. It's the regular boys I was talking about. The only thing they bring now is a 5+ save in Combat. Don't think that's worth the loss in damage output the other choices bring.

I used to take them as "cheap" battle line/ bubble wrap. Now they are no longer uniquely battle line and are just as expensive. Why choose them now?

[warhead01]

Do we know if taking allies will have any effect over the Bonesplitterz Faction? Will it force a faction name change? 

[SolarBur]

Honestly i would still probably take the regular boys. They went up by what, 20pts for 10 ?. That's still going to be less than 360pts if they get a discount for having the max cap sized unit. I do see the appeal of Morboys though, its also one of the warscrolls i haven't used just yet. 

I think compared to the extra attack from the Morboys, its pretty much the reason why the regular savages are being overlooked. But with the shield, and maybes a mystic shield and a wardokk dance, its going to take a bit of shifting to remove 60 wounds like that. It might just be the extra +1 to a save in combat. But the extra point in armor save can make a difference just as much as an extra attack

 

8 minutes ago, warhead01 said:

Do we know if taking allies will have any effect over the Bonesplitterz Faction? Will it force a faction name change? 

The faction name will stay the same from what i can guess at. I couldn't imagine taking allies would remove the Bonesplitters name otherwise taking allies would be a bit problematic for armies with faction abilities. 

And if that's not what you meant i apoligise for the misunderstanding ^^;;

[bonzai]

5 hours ago, SolarBur said:

Honestly i would still probably take the regular boys. They went up by what, 20pts for 10 ?. That's still going to be less than 360pts if they get a discount for having the max cap sized unit. I do see the appeal of Morboys though, its also one of the warscrolls i haven't used just yet. 

I think compared to the extra attack from the Morboys, its pretty much the reason why the regular savages are being overlooked. But with the shield, and maybes a mystic shield and a wardokk dance, its going to take a bit of shifting to remove 60 wounds like that. It might just be the extra +1 to a save in combat. But the extra point in armor save can make a difference just as much as an extra attack

20 point increase, 300 for 30. Moreboys get the same discount. Arrowboys also went up 20, but get no discounts for maxing out, so 360 for 30.

[SolarBur]

Just now, bonzai said:

20 point increase, 300 for 30. Moreboys get the same discount. Arrowboys also went up 20, but get no discounts for maxing out, so 360 for 30.

So 30 savage orruks are the same points as before in units of 30 ? much bigger discount than i was expecting. good to see the arrowboys are a little more expensive. even as a bonesplitter player i felt they were too good ^^;;;

[TheWilddog]

The reservations I have with Moreboys is the movement.  For a unit you want to be aggressive, 5' foot slogging does not seem to translate into getting into the combats where you want when you want.  The Bonesplitterz spell that doubles movement can help this, but only so much.  I don't mind the 5' move on regular Savages as much due to their mostly defensive purpose and with Arrowboys its fine because you are just sitting back and pew pewing anyways.

[someone2040]

9 hours ago, meet.the.doctor said:

Warboss gives our army A LOT of melee possibilities(+1 melee attack which will add 2 attacks for boars, re-rolling wounds). If he won't be survivable I will switch him to Wyvern one.

Just understand that allies cannot be the General. So you can't have a Greenskinz Orruk Warboss use his WAAAGH! command ability in a Bonesplitterz allegiance army. You can of course, make full use out of the Great Waaagh Banner to re-roll 1's to wound in the combat phase.

[meet.the.doctor]

Just understand that allies cannot be the General. So you can't have a Greenskinz Orruk Warboss use his WAAAGH! command ability in a Bonesplitterz allegiance army. You can of course, make full use out of the Great Waaagh Banner to re-roll 1's to wound in the combat phase.

Whaaat? I thought they cannot be battleline only. That ruins my plan...


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[someone2040]

2 minutes ago, meet.the.doctor said:

Whaaat? I thought they cannot be battleline only. That ruins my plan...


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From what I have read and understood you can't use your allies for any minimums nor can they be the General.

This makes sense, your allies wouldn't be leading you, you'd be leading your allies.

[SolarBur]

In the case of the bonesplitters its not so much allies. 

Its more like one army is being attacked by a larger force, and the bonesplitterz just happen to be charging towards the enemy to get as some monster bones. that feels like the fluffy way. The "allies" just happen to get caught up in all the waaagh! energy and end up fighting alongside the bonesplitterz

[Centuryslayer]

I might just load up on boar units instead tbh. It's just too bad there is only one leader on boar

[Pedro_L]

Great discussions here. I must say, I'm with @bonzai in that I would rather have the extra attack (and the point of bravery can be handy too) with Morboyz. My thinking is since basically we have to contend with 6+ saves from regular Savage orruks at range ( @SolarBur - for me they're just as slow and vulnerable a time range) it's not too much of a difference compared to what you're getting, damage-output. Given rend is bound to appear in most opposing armies, even with Mystic Shield you can still end up back a time 5+ or 6+ quite frequently when trying to hold objectives. The Savage Orruk in me wants more attacks! Who cares about shields when my warpaint will protect me! 

[SolarBur]

1 hour ago, Pedro_L said:

Great discussions here. I must say, I'm with @bonzai in that I would rather have the extra attack (and the point of bravery can be handy too) with Morboyz. My thinking is since basically we have to contend with 6+ saves from regular Savage orruks at range ( @SolarBur - for me they're just as slow and vulnerable a time range) it's not too much of a difference compared to what you're getting, damage-output. Given rend is bound to appear in most opposing armies, even with Mystic Shield you can still end up back a time 5+ or 6+ quite frequently when trying to hold objectives. The Savage Orruk in me wants more attacks! Who cares about shields when my warpaint will protect me! 

That last bit was spoken like a true Savage Orruk

I'm still a fantasy player at heart, guess its one of the reasons why i can't let go of just my bog standard regular guys. Even if there is something better i will still take them cause it just feels right ^^

I guess i just lack that competitive spirit. Need to hunt more monsters to unlock that

[Towenaar]

Been thinking about going for Bonesplitterz for my first AOS army, could any experienced player rate my list?

Heroes
Savage Big Boss (120)
- General
- Stonecleava
- Trait: Squirmy Warpaint
- Artefact: Glowin Tattooz
Wurrgog Prophet (140)
- Artefact: Ju-ju Wotnotz
Maniak Weirdnob (120)
Wardokk (100)

Battleline
10 x Savage Boarboys (240)
30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360)
30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360)

Allies
Rogue Idol (400)

Battalions
Kunnin' Rukk (160)

Total: 2000/2000

 

I'd have got a lot more pre 2017 GH but I still think its a strong list, is the Rogue Idol worth the investment?