The Cranky Dwarf Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Hey lads and lasses, I run an army of dwarves and I lose most of my games. And I think I've nailed down the reason why... my warmachines. I try to take 2 at 1500 pts or more but at the end or the day I end up with a 120-200 pt model with 3 wounds. And the crew are almost always sniped down by turn 2. Am I right in thinking I should lose the cannons for more thunderers/irondrakes or am I missing something? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jabber Tzeentch Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Most armies have something that can delete a war machine turn one so the only way to run them is by target saturation or to hide the crew out of LOS so they have to target the cannon. Thunderers are probably better overall especially with an extra -1 rend from a runelord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 In my opinion there still is no clear solution if your enemy can snipe your crew or not. Give it a try and allocate wounds by yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jabber Tzeentch Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 In my opinion there still is no clear solution if your enemy can snipe your crew or not. Give it a try and allocate wounds by yourself.It's in the FAQ I think that you can target the crew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 there was a big discussion about that issue: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=69261 In my opinion the wording in the FAQ is still not clear about weather or not the enemy of a war machine can target its crew or not. Q: With war machines and crew, how should you allocate wounds? A: A war machine and its crew are two separate units, and so must be targeted separately. the way I read it the owner of the war machine must target either the war machine or the crew for wound allocation. source: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Errata/warhammer_aos_rules_en.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jabber Tzeentch Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 there was a big discussion about that issue:http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=69261 In my opinion the wording in the FAQ is still not clear about weather or not the enemy of a war machine can target its crew or not. Q: With war machines and crew, how should you allocate wounds? A: A war machine and its crew are two separate units, and so must be targeted separately. the way I read it the owner of the war machine must target either the war machine or the crew for wound allocation. source: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Errata/warhammer_aos_rules_en.pdf When you compare that to the main rules it's pretty obvious. Your opponent does the targeting not you. This is how it's played everywhere I've seen in the U.K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone2040 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 It's extremely clear. The two are treated as separate units for all purposes. The enemy gets to decide what they want to target. War Machine crew get cover as a benefit for being close to their war machine, but it doesn't help a huge amount against the enemy fire. In general, this does make war machines very fragile if your enemy can threaten the crew (Either via alpha strike or their own ranged damage). It seems though, that GW are fairly happy with the state of War Machines. They might not necessarily want War Machines to come back and be top tier in the meta again, especially after just being through a meta heavily focussing on shooting units. The other thing that may bring certain war machines back could be the prevalence of larger units. Some war machines get better when they target large units, which people may look to for keeping hordes in check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerlin Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I play a lot of Dispossessed and Free People and Artillery can be hit and miss. In the main, the more games I have played, the more I am able to keep the arty alive. Step one. Don't be afraid to set up further back. They can move later. Step two. Always stay in cover. A dwarf crew is at a 3 + in cover near a gun. Step three. Bring an Engineer. Grimm Burloksonn is my favorite. I hope he comes back with points when they republish compendium. It helps having the buffs and a decent hero to fight off hellbats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone2040 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 25 minutes ago, Cerlin said: Step two. Always stay in cover. A dwarf crew is at a 3 + in cover near a gun. I don't think that's true, as you already get cover for being near the war machine. You don't get cover twice as far as I'm aware? It's just an on-off type thing. 26 minutes ago, Cerlin said: Step three. Bring an Engineer. Grimm Burloksonn is my favorite. I hope he comes back with points when they republish compendium. It helps having the buffs and a decent hero to fight off hellbats. This may be particularly hard if you want to keep allegiance (Which now that both Free Peoples and Dispossessed have their own allegiance abilities could be tricky). The big war machine you kinda want is the Cannon. Previously it was the Hellstorm in combo with the Hurricanum, but if using allies you won't be able to fit them both in. Either way, a Cannon or Hellstorm are 180 each. That means you won't be able to fit 2 in and an Engineer into your allies limit in a 2k game. So you either take double at 360, or one and an Engineer of sorts, leaving you with 140 (Gunmaster) or 120 (Cogsmith) points free for more allies. Of course, that's on the basis of allies. If you want to go Grand Alliance Order in future, then you can plonk in whatever fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerlin Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 With the cover thing I think you are right. With the rest you are making some assumptions off rules we have not seen fully yet. Also many people are saying GW is saying compedium isn't dead so I am hopeful. Also the cannons is good, but I am a big fan of the organ gun. It's got a lot of shots so it can flatten out that RNG curve. It's also less points if my enemy shoots at it. The 2 shot arty hurt a lot when they fail. If you need to kill a Treelord ancient who is buffed, bring a cannon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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