Eric54114 Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Tizianolol said: With bestial charisma have i to use inspiring presence for my command ability ( and with that i got d3 units) or i can use waagh as command ability and i can use bestial charisma for d3 units? It looks like your General has to use their Inspiring Presence ability in order for Bestial Charisma to kick in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueisola Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 7 hours ago, Solaris said: Obviously the tactical possibilities with this ability are immense, as anyone used to playing with Fanatics would tell you. However, the 5+ is a turnoff for me, since chances are you are going to need it at a crucial point in the game and not care too much about it the rest of the game. This is my experience with the one Fanatic I use - there is one extremely crucial instance in the game where I need him, and afterwards there is not really much use in interrupting charges anymore. I'd much prefer Brutish Cunning as a once per battle ability, so you'd be sure to have it when you really needed it. I think the mind games you talk about are valid, but they go both ways - do I set myself up for needing the counter charge to go off, or do I position more defensively, thereby not caring if it goes off or not? All in all, I much favour Bestial Charisma since it just looks far more solid to me. Couldn't agree with you more! yes, the Brutish Cunning can be hugely impacting in swinging key tactical moments, but that 5+ will keep me from ever leaning on taking it. It's too situational and the odds are not in your favor. As much as it is very IronJawy to throw caution to the wind, should it fail you you may be well worse off had you, as you said, played more defensively. It would be an absolutely essential 'must take' if it was a once per game given ability, but...it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaotic Neutral Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 thank you for this sir. i own several armies, but am sticking to ironjawz. to hell with ez mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterman Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Thanks for posting this. I hope the bloodtoofs battalion is cool! Not feeling the ironsun one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share Posted August 21, 2017 Morning all, Just a quick thanks for all the great responses I've had to this both here and on Twitter. To be honest I wasn't 100% sure it was going to be worth the time it took, but seeing the replies here has definitely made it worthwhile. Also makes me feel I made the right choice posting it here so we could keep the discussion flowing. I'm back at work today and am super tired and achy after a weekend of go karting, drinking, dancing and paintballing! I still haven't really caught up on the previous week were I had literally just 2 1/2 hours sleep over 2 nights in order to finish painting my Tzeentch army. Oops! Still, it never stops and I have another packed week with a podcast to record and edit for tonight (about my Tzeentch win, so you guys won't care haha!!) and then I need to fully put a PDF together for BLACKOUT. That said, this thread is still way up there in the priority queue and you will be getting a follow up post today with some coverage of the two new Battalions and some of the first lists I've written. Hoping to get a game in on Saturday as well. Might hit up @Paul Buckler or @Cowboy Boots Matt for that. Anyway, a few replies to comment on for now... On 19/08/2017 at 11:26 AM, Double Misfire said: Hey Chris, was great getting a game in against you and Aaron on saturday, congrats on taking the title. Excellent and very thorough post. Any chance of something similar for Dispossessed? Hey man, was great to meet and play you as well. Really enjoyed the game and seeing your super nice army. Unfortunately this was somewhat a labour of love and the Duardin do not tickle my fancy in the same way. Sorry man! On 19/08/2017 at 1:03 PM, Hounsou83 said: Are there generic spells for ironjaws or destrucion? Nope. On 19/08/2017 at 2:05 PM, Tizianolol said: Guys with this ally we can finally put a cheep grot shaman In ironjawz list! I know, it's not good to see a grot into a ironj list , but immagine how it work in a tournament! 60 pts for mystic shield:) It's a solid choice for you. You will need to leave more than 60 points spare in your list though now On 19/08/2017 at 5:10 PM, Jesper77 said: Damn I hate when I get all negative. But tbh I dont get that "feel" for it. To much random things. The "nerfs" got some things to go from overpowered to more or less useless. Well maybe not useless but meeh. The changes, as I read em, doesnt give a feel of IJ finaly competing with Order and Chaos on equall terms. Thats kinda sad if thats the case. But Hey, like I said. Feel abit on the negative side today. Maybe gets better when I get the actual book. It's funny as I think many people looking at their army in a vacuum will feel similar, but remember this is just my thoughts on a handful of pages in a pretty lengthy book. I'd hoped that by discussing the reduction in power of the generic Destruction abilities I might've incited a bit more excitement about the Ironjawz ones. You'll need to look at the whole picture and we'll see how things shake out in time. BLACKOUT in a couple of weeks will be very interesting indeed. On 19/08/2017 at 6:41 PM, Payce said: To be fair, these changes, while awesome, doesn't change any of Ironjawz's issues. The lack of reliable Mortal Wounds is still there, the issue with bravery is only briefly adressed, and we're getting slower. What we ARE, is getting significantly killier, and getting a lot of added synergies to what we already have. In short, this pretty much changes how we're going to look at Ironjawz completely. Destruction as a whole is getting slower, we as Ironjawz will be faster. Again, lets try and stick with the bigger picture. The whole game is changing so we need to not look at what was, but what will be. I honestly feel we are in a good place. Regarding Bravery, anyone reading my posts on this forum will know that I bang on about it all the time for Ironjawz. I will saw I am happy we now have numerous options to help mitigate this. As a slight spoiler, the other new Battalion has a bravery buff, so check back later for more on that. On 19/08/2017 at 8:21 PM, Malakithe said: @Chris Tomlin can you explain the battle traits more? I'm a bit confused on them. Also what about the new battalions? How so? Let me know what it is that's confusing and I'll help you out mate New battalion reviews to come later. On 19/08/2017 at 9:32 PM, Megaboss86 said: I'm not so sure on brutish cunning I mean interrupting a charge can be great and all but it's on a 5+ meaning it can fail to go off a lot of the time and if it goes off you still don't get to strike first so unless you manage to move the fight away from an objective you could just take the charge? Seems very situational but it's that only going off on a 5+ that puts me off Yeh it's not reliable, but will certainly have it's uses. Personally I can myself using Bestial Charisma to start with...I think! On 19/08/2017 at 10:17 PM, Fungrim said: Have to say, at first glance, I got a pang of worry about losing our greatest asset (movement), and was concerned that the new abilities may not make up for it. The drop in points got me all excited only to realise the Ironfist nerf might undermine this completely. It's easy to feel like this, but bear in mind that Battalions have gone up across the board...at least we've had some reductions to absorb that! On 19/08/2017 at 10:35 PM, Solaris said: @Chris Tomlin I have a technical question regarding Allies. Is it possible to use Allies to cover Battleline requirements? Nope. On 19/08/2017 at 11:11 PM, Hypno said: i was wondering if Beastclaw can ally with Ironjawz? Nope. On 19/08/2017 at 11:33 PM, Eric54114 said: Can definitely see some of these scenarios playing out. My issue is that the range is only 6" for Brutish Cunning - you feel obliged to take a Maw Krusha General due to his pie plate sized base and max out the potential. BTW, three cheers to @Chris Tomlin for the review. Obviously can't reveal everything, but this is definitely got me amped for next weeks' release I think a Maw-krusha General will likely be the go-to regardless. Cheers, this is new ground for me so I'm trying to give as much detail as I can without completely spoiling things ya know. Hopefully I've struck up a good balance. On 19/08/2017 at 11:59 PM, Tizianolol said: With bestial charisma have i to use inspiring presence for my command ability ( and with that i got d3 units) Yes. 4 hours ago, winterman said: Thanks for posting this. I hope the bloodtoofs battalion is cool! Spoiler; it is. Very cool in fact. Cheers guys, Chris x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_gore Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Can you give a quick overview of the Greenskinz points? Specifically if Wyvern boss will still be dirt cheap, and great shaman so bloody expensive? Boars still free for boss and shaman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 hour ago, tom_gore said: Can you give a quick overview of the Greenskinz points? Specifically if Wyvern boss will still be dirt cheap, and great shaman so bloody expensive? Boars still free for boss and shaman? Wyvern no change Shaman -20 points Boars still free for boss and shaman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_gore Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share Posted August 21, 2017 Evening all, As promised here is the follow up to my lengthy post from Saturday. Hopefully you've had a chance to digest that and will now be excited for what's to come this weekend. It should be said that I'm wholeheartedly excited about these changes for us. I mentioned it above in a reply, but to reiterate; I did make a mistake in my initial review in that your General must be a Leader. The Megabrutes are officially dead. Long live the Megabrutes! That's the last I'll say on the matter. I'm over it. Not a big deal. I expected as much and I'm looking forward to exploring something new going forward. They'd definitely become something of a crutch. At present it seems everyone is looking at a blurred foreign leak page or two of their favourite allegiance and are getting upset about their Battalions going up! This really is a bigger picture type thing and I for one can't wait to see the sort of lists people start trying out, starting at my event, BLACKOUT, next weekend! With the new Matched Play Battleplans there definitely is a focus on larger units, which makes paying a premium for a fantastic battalion benefit a really tough decision. This can only be a good thing though IMO as it will result in a greater variety of lists as players opt to go different ways with this. I'll give an example of some random list drafts in a minute, but first things first, let's quickly check out the new battalions. Both of these are level 2 / super battalions or however you want to describe them. Basically the type that includes one (or more) other battalions as well as the other units in your army to allow it to drop on the table in one go. Obviously this is a massive benefit and something that shouldn't come cheaply. We as Ironjawz will pay between 280-300 all in for the privilege. It sounds like a lot, but remember that as per my previous post, all battalions have gone up. On the flip side, not all allegiances have had point reductions like we have so it does arguably put us in a good position to try these out. Undeniably it will feel strange to have a smaller army on the table and ultimately we may not decide to go this route. However, seeing as we've never had the chance to one drop before, I'm pretty sure we'll be trying it out to start with haha!! The organisation for both the Ironsunz and Bloodtoofs (we're not gonna discuss whether your Orruks need yellow or red paintjobs!!) is the same; *Megaboss on Maw-krusha (gets a different name in each to add a bit of flavour) *Ironfist with 5 units That second stipulation is interesting as with the cost of the battalions, those 5 units are more than likely going to have to be minimum sized, unless you're character light. You are then free to fill out the battalion with other units or battalions to create that super succulent one drop!! From there you get two different benefits for each battalion, which are as follows; Ironsunz * Before the first battle round, you roll a dice and on a 3+ your opponent suffers -1 hit from all their attacks in the first battle round. This is pretty juicy as it doesn't just apply to shooting. So if you find yourself in some early melee this ability will pay dividends. Situationally this is pretty huge, unfortunately though I think the unreliability will be the battalion's undoing. That said, if the meta continues along a shooting heavy path we are going to have to have a serious look before passing this over. * The second benefit basically allows your Megaboss on Maw-krusha to unlock a Strength from Victory bonus. This is perhaps more interesting than it first seems as don't forget you do get an extra wound and still a choice of Artefact. This will help to build a more survivable General which is something we'll need. Bloodtoofs * +1 to run and charge for all units in the battalion...remember, that's your army!! Oh and don't forget we already get +1 to charges! This is insane. So so good and Helps us keep some speed with the loss of old Rampaging Destroyers. Just take a moment to consider Gore-gruntas in this battalion...that D3 damage is starting to look more reliable at +2 to charge (still need to be 8" away from all enemies but still!). Great. * Ok, so if you liked that, take a breath and get ready. The second benefit is called Get Da Realmgate! and it lets you place a Realmgate in your opponents territory before they deploy. "Well, Megaboss...what's so exciting about that?!" I hear you say...well, whilst there is a Realmgate on the table you add 2 to the Bravery of all units in the battalion. Yes. Really. Wow. How good is this battalion? Don't forget that you roll 2 mysterious terrain types for Realmgates each turn as well so you can potentially give them Damned or Arcane....or maybe force them into Mystical. Interesting anyway, but yeh....+1 to run, +2 to charge (cumulative) and +2 bravery for this Ironjawz army. Come on man, this is dream territory is it not? Wow. Did I say wow? Now to reiterate once again, as good as this second battalion is (and guys, it really is!), you do pay a premium, as well you should, so it's still by no means an auto include. You gotta just put your hand up and say great work GW there! Before I get onto some lists, let's just pause a second and smile as we consider Bravery 10 Brutes (achievable in a variety of ways!). Mmmmmmmm. I'm watching Alex Bliss wrestle whilst thinking about this so its a pretty special time right now!!! ? Alright, just a couple of lists to get the juices flowing. These all need playtesting to find out the best combos of units for sure, they are really just examples so you get an idea of what lists could look like; Megaboss on Maw-Krusha - General, Bestial Charisma, Daubing of Mork Weirdnob Shaman - The Boss Skewer Warchanter - Metalrippa's Klaw Ironfist 10 Brutes 10 Ardboys 10 Ardboys 3 Gore-Gruntas 3 Gore-Gruntas Bloodtoofs This list clocks in at 1960 and there's a bunch of changes you could make. The most simple is to upgrade one unit of Gore-gruntas to Brutes or Ardboys. The most obvious loss here is the lack of a foot Megaboss (who would benefit from an Artefact...the Warchanter is just a placeholder and to make him fit in with some rend haha!). You can easily get one in though. Maybe drop the 10 Brutes down to 5 (as I said, 5 minimum sized units may be the way to go here), switch some Gruntas for another 5 and then pop one in. As well as the new Battalion, I think Allies is clearly an exciting route to go. 2 Gitmob Spear Chukkas are probably top of my list with my sensible head on. How do they first into a list, let's see; Megaboss on Maw-Krusha - General, Bestial Charisma, Daubing of Mork Megaboss - Destroyer Weirdnob Shaman Warchanter Ironfist 5 Brutes 5 Brutes 10 Ardboys 3 Gore-Gruntas 3 Gore-Gruntas 2 Grot Spear Chukkas This is 1980 and again the units are kinda just placeholders to give an idea. You could build a more defensive list around the Spear Chukkas, maybe drop the Warchanter and Gore-Gruntas for 2 more units of Brutes/Ardboys? You could even utilise a Massive Regiment of Ardboys!! If you wanted bodies on the table you could drop the Ironfist all together! Megaboss on Maw-Krusha - General, Bestial Charisma, Daubing of Mork Megaboss - Destroyer Weirdnob Shaman Warchanter 30 Ardboys 5 Brutes 5 Brutes 3 Gore-Gruntas 2 Grot Spear Chukkas That one is 1990. I'm sure there's much better ways to utilise the Ardboys like that though ?. Also clearly if you're open to allies then a Gitmob or Moonclan Shaman is going to be a fantastic choice at all times for sure. Ok I'm tired now, let's do one more for lolz; Megaboss on Maw-Krusha - General, Bestial Charisma, Daubing of Mork Megaboss - The Boss Skewer Weirdnob Shaman Ironfist 5 Brutes 5 Brutes 5 Brutes 5 Brutes Rogue Idol of Gork 2,000 on the nose there! Boss Skewer + Rogue Idol gives the MSU Brutes +2 Bravery and the General can keep D3 of them inspired. You could use Brutish Cunning in a list like this for fun. Anyhow, those are literally off the top of my head and are not necessarily what I'm advocating or suggesting will be the power (you'll have to wait until Facehammer GT, by which time I hope to have a better idea!). I'm sure there's something workable up there though....looking forward to discussing lists with you all. Please keep the conversation flowing in this thread. Can't wait to see what you all come up with. I'm sure you'll all sleep well dreaming of happy green faces chasing that Realmgate! Thanks for reading, Chris ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric54114 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 That Bloodtoofs Battalion is just awesome. The thought alone makes me want to convert up an Orruk-inspired Realmgate! **MOD EDIT - Please don't quote whole posts like that mate! Chris** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhellion Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 37 minutes ago, Eric54114 said: That Bloodtoofs Battalion is just awesome. The thought alone makes me want to convert up an Orruk-inspired Realmgate! please don't quote entire long posts like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangfroid Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Good morning gorks fans th pieces of the puzzle are slowly falling into place but I'll caveat this with the fact that as I haven't actually seen the wording myself some of these abilities/items may work differently depeding on the exact wording. Bloodtoof: love the idea of this battalion and the new battalion tax finally bites home for IJ though to be fair if it didn't cost 300pts it would be in every single IJ list I imagine. Megaboss on MawKrusha: General, Ironclad, armour of Gork weirdnob: boss skewer megqboss: Meat ripper (-1 rend one ) 10 brutes 5 brutes 5 brutes 3 goregruntas 3 goregruntas ironfist bloodtoofs =2000pts I have been using this exact list (with a Warchanter) and it's pretty nails (Previosuly talisman on Krusha brew on footboss) and was the list I was going to use to for mine and @Chris Tomlin (Sorry I mean Megaboss Krunk) grudge match at Bristol Smash that the famed Megaboss chickened out on (just kidding was a ironclad reason Da dum dum tsssh). I think with the new allegience abilities it really pumps up first we have +2 to charge the brutes become bravery 8 (9 if the boss skewer works need to read that really) and so you can almost not use inspiring prescene at all instead hitting up a Waaagh once engaged (still use it while you advance to be safe). If im reading it correctly you have a general that reduces the rend of incoming attacks by 1 (so -1 becomes 0 -2 becomes -1) and if we get the mystic shield on him is bouncing a mortal wound back on a 5+ (against a natural rend -1 and 0 attacks) and a 6+ against rend -2, he becomes a great horde killer, against 120 4 to hit 4 to wound rend -1/0 damage 1 attacks, he will take on average 5 wounds and bounce 20 mortals back, also makes him a good shout against Stardrakes and things that don't have better than rend -1 (rend -2 at a push if we think he can take them down quick) with the footboss having meat ripper we also then have 5 sources of rend -2 across the army. not sure if I can actually get any work done today, might just spend the day on TGA list theorising with you fellow Megaboss :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xelotath Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Sangfroid said: Good morning gorks fans th pieces of the puzzle are slowly falling into place but I'll caveat this with the fact that as I haven't actually seen the wording myself some of these abilities/items may work differently depeding on the exact wording. Bloodtoof: love the idea of this battalion and the new battalion tax finally bites home for IJ though to be fair if it didn't cost 300pts it would be in every single IJ list I imagine. Megaboss on MawKrusha: General, Ironclad, armour of Gork weirdnob: boss skewer megqboss: Meat ripper (-1 rend one ) 10 brutes 5 brutes 5 brutes 3 goregruntas 3 goregruntas ironfist bloodtoofs =2000pts I have been using this exact list (with a Warchanter) and it's pretty nails (Previosuly talisman on Krusha brew on footboss) and was the list I was going to use to for mine and @Chris Tomlin (Sorry I mean Megaboss Krunk) grudge match at Bristol Smash that the famed Megaboss chickened out on (just kidding was a ironclad reason Da dum dum tsssh). I think with the new allegience abilities it really pumps up first we have +2 to charge the brutes become bravery 8 (9 if the boss skewer works need to read that really) and so you can almost not use inspiring prescene at all instead hitting up a Waaagh once engaged (still use it while you advance to be safe). If im reading it correctly you have a general that reduces the rend of incoming attacks by 1 (so -1 becomes 0 -2 becomes -1) and if we get the mystic shield on him is bouncing a mortal wound back on a 5+ (against a natural rend -1 and 0 attacks) and a 6+ against rend -2, he becomes a great horde killer, against 120 4 to hit 4 to wound rend -1/0 damage 1 attacks, he will take on average 5 wounds and bounce 20 mortals back, also makes him a good shout against Stardrakes and things that don't have better than rend -1 (rend -2 at a push if we think he can take them down quick) with the footboss having meat ripper we also then have 5 sources of rend -2 across the army. The other route I like: mawkrusha: general, ironclad, armour of Gork shaman: boss skewer Warchanter, destroyer warchanter 30 Ardboyz 5 brutes 5 brutes 3 goregruntas ironfist bloodtoofs =1990 same as before with mawkrusha as the Ardboyz unit is up to bravery 12 in combat, I like that it's got a mighty horde in as the rumours are we need this for some scenarios, warchanters to buff the Ardboyz or brutes, but the downside is only 10 brutes (can we leave home with this few??) overall more defensive/balanced than the first one maybe? not sure if I can actually get any work done today, might just spend the day on TGA list theorising with you fellow Megaboss :-) I really like the first list and is pretty much what I was thinking to try first. on the second list, don't you need 5 main units for the battalion? As it's a maxed out ironfist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangfroid Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Arrrgh yes I'm 1 goregruntas unit shy (scrap that then will need a rethink :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payce Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Bloodtoofs. This changes everything. 1 hour ago, Sangfroid said: Megaboss on MawKrusha: General, Ironclad, armour of Gork weirdnob: boss skewer megqboss: Meat ripper (-1 rend one ) 10 brutes 5 brutes 5 brutes 3 goregruntas 3 goregruntas ironfist bloodtoofs =2000pts Unless my math is off, this comes in at 2020 points? Love the idea of the Megaboss in there though, dropping the shaman for a chanter might do the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoodooChileIRL Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 I have to say, even though the Ironsunz is definitely the weaker of the two battalions, I think I got to take it with my yellow Boyz. (or not take a Warband battalion at all) It's handy that my regular opponents have a fair amount of shooting, just got to hope to get that 3+ off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 Morning, @Sangfroid - Yeh Ironclad and Armour of Gork is a reasonable combo for sure. Like you say though you need the Mystic Shield on him as well, though tbh I can see it being the place we will want it most the time anyway now. I still think at this stage I would go for the Daubings over the Armour. I just see it as coming into play more often. The Boss Skewer definitely combos with Get Da Realmgate for Bravery 9 Brutes. I'm perhaps overly cautious by popping down Bestial Charisma (I like the name!) and agree it may not be needed. I think I'm just excited by all the bravery/anti-battleshock buffs haha!! Interesting you'd go Meatrippa over Destroyer on the Megaboss. It's definitely still a solid choice, but I just think of all those times Krunk does 8-12 damage with his Choppa and how nice it'd be for that to be 12-15 damage!!! I do wonder whether we will see less foot Megabosses and Warchanters in order to facilitate more troops. Certainly if people don't want to pack Gore-gruntas (2 units seems to be falling into most my lists nicely) they will probably need to leave the Warchanter at home in order to bridge the gap between the units differing points now. I worry your list is very short on models Kieran. IMO I think you'd want at least a 10 of Ardboys in there....but I do see that running anything less than 20 Brutes seems light!! It's all very exciting isn't it. If anyone wants to buy a Realmgate (at 15% off) to try out the new Battalion, please click through this link, it'll help me out as well! http://elementgames.co.uk/games-workshop/games-workshop-scenery/warhammer-fantasy-scenery/baleful-realmgates?d=10210 Getting mine now, so only 3 left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorks Pokin' Finger Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Hey @Chris Tomlin, great review. I am really excited for Ironjawz going forward. I am fine with us taking a hit on speed if it means we have more cunning and deadly means to expand our play style rather than having the army play itself. Personally I aim to take Brutish Cunning and a mix of Destroyer/Metalrippa's Klaw/Boss Skewer depending on the match-up. It fits the theme of my army narratively, and also my play-style in matched play The change in points means an Ironfist at 1000 is going to be extremely tough to take considering that's practically a whole new unit we could take instead. I felt Ironjawz were one of the strongest army lists at 1,000, but it seems GH2 is going to force players into some hard decisions, which is very good because it means we have options and actually have to think of different lists. I think our allegiance abilities and command traits may make up for not using Ironfist somewhat, but we will have to try it out before we can really come to that conclusion I bought the Thunderfist Box around Christmas and I've been dying to use my Gargant with my Orruks. I think in a 2,000 list, he can work perfectly because the opponent is likely to focus on the Megaboss on Mawkrusha, so he should at least make it into combat without too much damage. Despite some concerns of his reliability (movement and attacks), he has enough potential damage output that can make up for it. Not to mention the ability to finish off models and heroes with his stuff into bag ability! And if he gets focus-fired, well at least it gives the Mawkrusha the window to rampage into the enemies line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xelotath Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Not a great list but at least there's two crushas. Beastjaw Raiders almost! Megaboss on crusha (general) Megaboss on crusha 3x Gore Gruntas 3x Gore Gruntas 3x Gore Gruntas 3x Gore Gruntas 3x Gore Gruntas Ironfist Bloodtoofs leaves 80pts left over for something or other. It'll be fast and maybe with the 2+ to charges the Gruntas will reliably hit harder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fungrim Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 A lot to absorb here, but great work both @Chris Tomlin and @Sangfroid ! Seeing some lists is beginning to give me confidence! I won't lie, I absolutely have been reading some French this week.. Can anyone see any value in dropping battalions altogether at this point, or are the abilities just too good to pass up, even at high cost? Genuinely can't decide where to go. Thankfully, I do have a pair of Realmgates just sitting in a box at home, unpainted scenery I never got round to - very convenient! I've got a 20-man unit of kitbashed Ardboys on my table so would like to squeeze them in somewhere, similarly, I'd like to take advantage of the Grunta points drop and fit a 2nd unit of 3 in. Highly tempted by bodies-over-abilities, but that Bravery 9 is going to be hard to pass up OPTIONS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoodooChileIRL Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Has the Brutefist gotten a bit of a buff with Mighty Destroyers? We've lost the D6" move obviously so they have gotten slower but if we consider that depending on the timing, you could use the Brutefist charge (Presumably with +1 for Eager to battle), then try for a Mighty Destroyer Pile In (On a 4+ if your Megaboss general is nearby) increasing the amount of guys in range to attack then in the fight phase pile in again. If those Brutes destroy a unit, you then get to trigger Smashin' and Bashin'... Is a combined 6" Pile in enough to bring 15 Gorehacka Brutes to bear on a unit? I'd imagine it is but I haven't had an opportunity to play with such a big unit yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangfroid Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 I'm so going to run out of likes today :-) @Chris Tomlin agree about the Ardboyz but in that particular list (call it a tracer shot) I figure max out the combat punch and benefit to brutes from increased bravery (I'd have replaced the goregruntas with brutes if I could of points wise). My thinking with meatripper is basically seraphon and sylvaneth and stardrakes the first 2 have things that ignore rend one and the drake can heal and also has a high AS, having that throw away piece you can charge a treelord ancient or a block of Saurus Guard could be useful, pre-GHB I used Black orc bosses with 2handers and often ruined seraphons day when you start hacking thru what they have imagined as a solid chaff screen. Destroyer is also sexy kitting him out with that will be a great anti horde killer (1 dude holding up 40 skeletons :-) i love the double cabbage list @Xelotath however you may not really need the bloodtoof formation if just using goregruntas so maybe gorefist and a chanter? So a little horde approach Megaboss, general, ironclad, armour of Gork megaboss destroyer shaman. Warchanter 30 Ardboyz 4 x 5 brutes Ironfist/brutefist Aleguzzler giant =1980/2000 ironfist or brutefist works here (I think I favour brutefist for some mortal wounds) (kpjust saw you post after I finished @VoodooChileIRL I think that's a great tactic :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 @Xelotath - Ha! I just wrote this list as a joke over HERE!! I went with Gorefist though...stick your pork right in their face early doors before smashing them with your Destructive Bulk later on. It really is sexy stuff. Just need to purchase a second Cabbage and I can give it a whirl. @Fungrim - Indeed, lots of options. Can't wait till ever has their books this week, I want to see this thread full of lists and discussions. It's going to be so much fun. Regarding dropping battalions, there is 100% some consideration to be hard in regards to that. @DeadlySarcasm was just asking the same on Whatsapp. I mentioned in my review posts that it will be a real toss up between the fantastic battalion bonuses versus bodies on the table. If I'm rocking a tricked out Bloodtoof army and you've ditched battalions all together, it's entirely possible that you'll be rocking two extra units to me. That's a big difference and I'm really gonna need to make those bonuses count! Dropping battalions and adding allies such as Spear Chukkas and a cheaper Shaman is potentially the way I see a lot of lists going (although let's be honest, we'll all be trying the Bloodtoof battalion at some point!). Ardboys are going to be more vital than ever IMO....really to add to the pitiful 10 I have painted (have 40 more, just need to paint them!!) Gonna be brilliant when we start getting some games in. Experience is really gonna help with working out what's what. Also you guys still need to give all the new Battleplans a read. I'd love to do a further review on all of them ahead of this weekend, I just don't have the time though. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 Ooops...getting lots of overlapping posts here. Looks like we are on similar wavelengths though @Sangfroid...shocker! @VoodooChileIRL - Interesting concept! I haven't even tried to fit a unit of 15 Brutes into my lists so far...just not sure you'd find the points with any battalion in play? Just thinking off the top of my head there though. @Sangfroid - Yeh mate, I did the same with my lists tbh, as long as it says Brutes/Ardboys you know what the options are right. Finding the shape of the list is more important at the moment. Interesting to see a Cabbage-free list there. Do we think there's mileage without him? Crazy how much more you get though isn't it! Nice list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fungrim Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 I may have already picked a finecast Spear Chukka up off eBay... and am kitbashing a 2nd out of spare Ironjawz/Orruk (will post in my neglected thread at some point) Using @Sangfroid 's list above, I'd swap out the Giant for a Spear Chukka and a Grot Shaman (that sneaky stabbin' has to happen). I guess then you start wondering if a Weirdnob Shaman is worth it... but again - I have a feeling the new artefacts benefit him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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