GH2017 - Ironjawz Review & Discussion

[Skabnoze]

Can you give named characters allegiance general abilities and items?

[Rock Lobster]

I like the Gorefist Battallion Sledgehammer list - it would be super fun. Problem is that like a sledgehammer it hits really freakin hard once and then it can get stuck and you are out of options. It really needs to be a first round KO. if an opponent puts up a screen of chaff unfortunately the list dies and does little, but if they don't you can wipe out 1/3 to half of their army in one strike.

I would swap a warchanter for a shaman to give gordrak the 2+ sv, plus all his attacks are 2+ to hit anyway so no need for the buff.

Also give the artifact to a warchanter since gordrak cant carry it.

[Leonhart040]

On 20/4/2018 at 8:15 PM, broche said:

Fungoid is not ironjawz so you would lose the one drop feature of the list (wich is kind of the point of playing a super bataillon)

Ok now I get it.

Did you try this list? How did it work?

[Hot Peanut]

On 4/20/2018 at 10:04 PM, Soul oWar said:

Anyone tried or calculated the impact of Voice of Gork turn 1 into a gorefist battallion?

Gorefist, 15" movement during hero phase for 12-18 pig. Normal 9" movement. 3 dice+1  charge from a 18"range (aiming for the 8" charge bonus on pig)

2 Extra attack,  (5 for weapon and 6 for pig) Add a few warchanter +1 to hit.

It's a turn one wrecking ball. Not sure if it would work but I'm sure it can be fun to try at least once. hahaha

Leaders

Gordrakk The Fist of Gork (620) - General  - Hulking Muscle-Bound Brute - The Boss Skewer
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Units
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)

Battalions
Gorefist (220)

Total: 2000 / 2000 Allies: 0 / 400 Leaders: 5/6 Battlelines: 3 (3+) Behemoths: 1/4 Artillery: 0/4 Wounds: 129

I calculated it, and you switch 3 pigs to a orruk warboss with banner more average damage output, I will post the calculation later, also remove a warchanter an put a shaman into it.

[Hot Peanut]

On 12.4.2018 at 7:11 PM, Hot Peanut said:

Hi, I calculated the average damage output (Voice of Gork) with 15 Pigs and a Warboss with Banner and with 18 Pigs, I think it is clear what to choose (every unit of pigs has +1 to Hit because of the Warchanters) I didn't calculate the D3 damage from the 8" charge.

 

										avg. Damage Output with Saves, per Pig/all Pigs
Pigs	Weapon	Attacks	Attacks commulated	To Hit	To Wound	chance of doing 1 damage	avg. Damage per Pig	avg. Damage per Pig commulated	avg. Damage of all Pigs	6+		5+		4+		3+
18	Pig Choppa (rend -1)	5	198	83%	67%	56%	2.8	4.8	86.0	2.3	41.7	2.3	41.7	1.9	33.3	1.4	25.0	Without Banner
	Fanged Maw and Hooves	6		67%	50%	33%	2.0			1.7	30.0	1.3	24.0	1.0	18.0	0.7	12.0
15	Pig Choppa (rend -1)	5	165	83%	89%	74%	3.7	6.7	100.6	3.1	46.3	3.1	46.3	2.5	37.0	1.9	27.8	With Banner
	Fanged Maw and Hooves	6		67%	75%	50%	3.0			2.5	37.5	2.0	30.0	1.5	22.5	1.0	15.0

Should have calculated this before getting the Pigs hopefully it is understandable.

Here is the calculation  @Soul oWar

[tolstedt]

It's very risky to play that way with 6 drops.  You are not likely to get the first turn.

[Gorks Pokin' Finger]

I have a GT coming up in June. We are required to have a fully painted army. I am using the base of a recent 1500 list I used that won a local tournament. I'm just having a hard time figuring out what to select with the final 180 points I have left

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460) - General - Command Trait : Ironclad - Artefact : Metalrippa's Klaw
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Units
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)

Total: 1820 / 2000

Leaders: 4/6 Battlelines: 5 (3+) Behemoths: 1/4  Wounds: 130

My options are:
Megaboss on Foot (140)- boosts the Brutes, provides another chance at Rampaging Destroyer, and can claim objectives while the rest of the boyz do their work

Brutes (180)- this would bring me to 25 Brutes with 4 Boss Klaws. Fun times when there's more boyz on the table. Need to buy the box but Brutes don' take too long to build and paint

3 x Gore Gruntas (140)- gives me a third fast option on the table and the potential to challenge far off objectives. I have to finish assembling the models, but GG are intricate to paint and could take longer to finish

Ironfist (160)- gives my boyz some speed and another item. I'd probably stick a warchanter with The Boss Skewer to boost my Brute's Bravery.

I'm considering the Megaboss because he's one of my best-painted models and he worked well in my last tournament. His speed though will be a concern. What would you guys suggest?

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, Gorks Pokin' Finger said:

Ironfist (160)- gives my boyz some speed and another item. I'd probably stick a warchanter with The Boss Skewer to boost my Brute's Bravery.

This is what I'd go with, it reduces your number of drops massively and gives two solid bonuses at the same time. Don't forget to add some reminder for your triumph roll, I run at 1990 and ALWAYS forget it....

Seriously though the difference between 6 drops and 11 drops is massive. It means you get first turn choice vs everyone who went "eh I don't care about deciding first turn" which given how good the Ironfist and extra artefact are for us makes it a no brainier at 2k IMO.

EDIT: Oh and don't forget that if you order your hero phase movement properly you can get to around 13" then land a mighty destroyers THEN roll for the ironfist meaning you get well inside of the 12" range Mighty Destroyers stops working at.

[broche]

Ironfist, but you will have to merge either brutes or Gruntas (max of 5 units). 

I tried once a 15-squad brutes regiment and really liked it.

Good luck!

[Sangfroid]

i really like, the footboss if your taking a few Brutes as he can sneak in a wreak some face (plus the nice reroll 1s) 

you literally can’t go wrong with more Brutes (this would be my first choice) 

ironfist is great for a the reasons already stated, though personally I’ve gone of the formation in favour of more bodies on the table 

[Malakree]

I think an important point to note might be that I run a unit of 30 ardboyz so unlike almost all other megabosses I don't actually have an issue with bodies on the table or staying power. For a much smaller model count army the brute boss is probably a better person to get advice from. Especially as I find myself drifting more and more away from the small number of brutes I DO run.

[Garxia]

Why is nobody playing Ardboyz these days? 

No role in the army? Expensive?

[Skabnoze]

1 hour ago, Garxia said:

Why is nobody playing Ardboyz these days? 

No role in the army? Expensive?

I'm planning on starting the expansion of my Orc & Goblin armies into the Ironjawz by starting with a core of about 90 Ard Boyz.  I should just be able to add a couple heroes to that and be off to the races with a decent force.  And from there I can slowly expand more into Brutes, Maw Crushers, and Gore Gruntas.

[Sangfroid]

2 hours ago, Malakree said:

I think an important point to note might be that I run a unit of 30 ardboyz so unlike almost all other megabosses I don't actually have an issue with bodies on the table or staying power. For a much smaller model count army the brute boss is probably a better person to get advice from. Especially as I find myself drifting more and more away from the small number of brutes I DO run.

Not at all your input is awesome on the forums it’s great that everyone is so open with there experiences and what’s good to take, other armies and factions are not so open. 

 

The truth is all those options are good but it’s personal preference and playstyle that matters ?

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Sangfroid said:

Not at all your input is awesome on the forums it’s great that everyone is so open with there experiences and what’s good to take, other armies and factions are not so open. 

 

The truth is all those options are good but it’s personal preference and playstyle that matters ?

I'm aware that at best I'm a theory crafter. You and @Chris Tomlin are way better players with a ton more experience. I just love to discuss the game.

Personally I find that I really dislike brutes for their lack of a MW save and low bravery which taints how I look at the different options.

[Gorks Pokin' Finger]

14 hours ago, Garxia said:

Why is nobody playing Ardboyz these days? 

No role in the army? Expensive?

Personally I love Ardboyz. I've had success with 20 Ardboyz  in my lists and they've been MVP many times. I prefer it to a unit of 30 because it's more maneuverable across the battlefield. Yet I see why 30 Ardboyz is a good option. No one is going to kill 60 wounds of Ardboyz, especially if you give them Mystic Shield, inspiring presence and Warchanter buffs. 

To answer your question, no, I don't think they're being disregarded. The issue is they need to be taken in large numbers in the current meta to really make an impact. I think Ironjawz units are fairly priced for what they are. Only the heroes (both megabosses and Weirdnob Shaman) could be due for a point reduction. I'm confident Ardboyz will still be used. I intend to use them again. 

[Garxia]

4 hours ago, Gorks Pokin' Finger said:

Personally I love Ardboyz. I've had success with 20 Ardboyz  in my lists and they've been MVP many times. I prefer it to a unit of 30 because it's more maneuverable across the battlefield. Yet I see why 30 Ardboyz is a good option. No one is going to kill 60 wounds of Ardboyz, especially if you give them Mystic Shield, inspiring presence and Warchanter buffs. 

To answer your question, no, I don't think they're being disregarded. The issue is they need to be taken in large numbers in the current meta to really make an impact. I think Ironjawz units are fairly priced for what they are. Only the heroes (both megabosses and Weirdnob Shaman) could be due for a point reduction. I'm confident Ardboyz will still be used. I intend to use them again. 

Sounds good!

Never played with 20 Ardboyz. You've said they've been your MVP many times, but how are you using them? Sitting on objectives? Buffing the shaman? Shielding brutes?

[Gorks Pokin' Finger]

52 minutes ago, Garxia said:

Sounds good!

Never played with 20 Ardboyz. You've said they've been your MVP many times, but how are you using them? Sitting on objectives? Buffing the shaman? Shielding brutes?

Throw every buff you have on them. Make your opponent hate sending something into them because they are going to tarpit anything that they go up against (aside from a Stardrake. Found that out the hard way ). I use them to lock down objectives in Scorched Earth and Border War/Battle for the Pass, then use them offensively for Knife to the Heart, Total Conquest, and Starstrike. Don't forget they have a +3 charge with drums and allegiance ability. They should never fail a charge if you position them correctly. I also give everyone the same weapon load out depending on the match-up. Any Death or horde armies I'll use two choppas and any army with a 4+ save I'll use big choppa. Keeps it simple and allows me to optimize their offensive potential rather than rely on which models did I glue these weapons to

[Malakree]

So the way I look at it is if you're willing to pay 360 for 20 Ardboys then the 90 for 10 is a no brainer. 

If you take them with 10 Orruk Forged shields and just keep them super tucked into the back of the unit then you essentially just get 20 wounds with a 6++ on your unit of ardboys. Or you can trail them out behind the unit to block space, claim objectives and be in range for the different IJ buffs we have.

At 360 flat (so 20) I'd personally rather take 10 Brutes or 6 GG's and a warchanter, their cost efficiency comes from the 90points off on the final 10 imo.

[Gorks Pokin' Finger]

Its just my play style. I prefer MSU over hordes, hence I prefer the 20 over the 30 because I feel 30 is too bulky. 20 can do the job for me. 10 Ardboyz are fine, but I'd rather spend that on Brutes. Plus, we might save 90 points by taking 30, but for a full 2k list, all you can add to the army is either a warchanter. Grot shaman, maybe 10 Orruks, or the shadespire warband. I can already fit most of that in my list. 

Also, I only give them all shields if I know their only job is to sit on an objective all game to deter the enemy. So scorched earth, for example, leave them on an objective with a shaman and warchanter nearby and deter your opponent from charging. I also rarely daisy chain unless I'm making a buffer to defend an objective. 

[Sheriff]

Can any unit do this shield trick or is it unique to ardboys? Could i put shields on a bunch of rear-row goblins but have bows on the rest? 

[Skabnoze]

7 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

Can any unit do this shield trick or is it unique to ardboys? Could i put shields on a bunch of rear-row goblins but have bows on the rest? 

I think it is a unique oddity due to the way that the equipment options are written for Ard Boyz.  Most units are written in a way where you select the equipment for the whole unit, but Ard boyz are written so that you can mix and match the equipment within the unit however you want.  I'm not sure if that is a feature they will keep moving forward (for instance if they rewrite the Ironjawz battletome) or if it is a sort of artifact from older rules writing that will be ironed out later.

One thing I do hope for in the future though is more consistent and explicit rules for how units are equipped.

[Banglesprout]

Yeah I think it's unique to Ardboys - it's a legacy thing because back when they were black orcs in 7th and 8th Ed. they used to have a rule called "Armed to da teef" where they count as being armed with all three options, and you could choose which options to use in each round.

It was great from a game point of view, but also from a modelling point of view because you could model them however you want, since they all counted as having all weapon options.

Wish they'd just stuck with that!

[Skabnoze]

I have always wondered if the wording on the Ard Boy warscroll was due to trying to keep the Armed to Da Teef rule from WFB or if it was just funky wording.  I would guess that it was an attempt to translate that ability into Age of Sigmar.  While it is interesting, I'm not sure it is really something that they should make a big effort to keep.

[someone2040]

3 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

I have always wondered if the wording on the Ard Boy warscroll was due to trying to keep the Armed to Da Teef rule from WFB or if it was just funky wording.  I would guess that it was an attempt to translate that ability into Age of Sigmar.  While it is interesting, I'm not sure it is really something that they should make a big effort to keep.

I think basically this problem stems from their rules in WFB with Armed to Da Teef basically allowing them to change equipment type every turn. What this has meant is that unlike every other kit in the game, the kit has not been designed with ensuring each model can be armed with each weapon type. And GW tries to be pretty WYSIWYG, so if a weapon is noticeably different (in this case it is - dual wielding vs one massive choppa) it has different rules.

I personally think the old Black Orcs warscroll was better as it just gave them a consistent weapon profile all the time but didn't distinguish between the different weapons. But perhaps a more eloquent rule would've just been to bring back their Armed to da Teef rule and allow them to swap weapon profile each round of combat. That being said, I guess you still have the issues with the Shields only being on certain models.