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GH2017 - Ironjawz Review & Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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Hi! Sure gordrakk with the gorefist is going to be fun some games but it is essentially a one trick pony that both you and your opponent will get tired of after a few games. Also, when the opponents have learned how to mitigate it, there is not much else you can do. I would get some brutes and ardboys too to mix it up a bit. When it comes to allies shooting is what you need, look into either gitmob artillery or bonesplittaz or perhaps a gobba. Moonclan Shamans also also great allies instead for the Weirdnob Shaman. If you take a look at the lists that are going to Cancon this weekend you will notice that not one of them run the gorefist. Look for doom & darkness Youtube channel and his destruction list review for cancon. 

Also, Welcome to the waaagh! 

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48 minutes ago, kozokus said:

Just a quick question regarding the Cave-Shaman : Is he an acceptable Ironjaw general? Run and charge is a nice trick in ironjaw's armies.

(Yes he can be the general, even if taken as ally)

 

Destructive Bulk  O.o

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5 hours ago, kozokus said:

Just a quick question regarding the Cave-Shaman : Is he an acceptable Ironjaw general? Run and charge is a nice trick in ironjaw's armies.

(Yes he can be the general, even if taken as ally)

 

From GBH2017, page 76 under allies.

Quote

Allied units are treated as part of the players army, except......, and an allied model cannot be the army general.

 

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2 minutes ago, kozokus said:

Harbingers can be general even if taken as allies. (malign portens rules)

Let's get back to the question now :)

Ahh specifically for malign portents, ok then I stand corrected. 

At higher points he's a bit to squishy imo, super vulnerable to being sniped off the board by something sneezing. You're also losing out on your command trait and Waaagh! abilities both of which are pretty important. For Ironjawz it comes down to whether you would rather have the retreat and charge or the extra attack (maybe 2) and rend ignore on the cabbage. All of that is only if you can afford to not Inspiring Presence.

I suspect that for Ironjawz specifically he's going to be relegated to wizard support, that said there will be the odd occasion where you can get some amazing retreat --> destructive bulk chains!

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I think he's just simply bad.  

4 wounds with a spell with d6" range.

The command ability requires that the unit be wholly within 18" during the charge phase.  I think it is not worth moving the general up.  You sacrifice the command trait and the 4+ rampaging destroyers move.

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He is a great mystic shield bot, while he has 4 wounds is little so can hide, -1 to hit from shooting and a 5+ save after save so he becomes a little harder to just clean off in one go and the once per game ability could be useful when you know you have to get that shield off. 

Im actually really  pleased, when I first saw his scroll I was disappointed but because he is 80pts that makes him a really valid choice and the model is amazing (note I do not like grots as a rule).  I’ve avoided moonclan shaman as allies as they are so squishy and I’d rather have a Weirdnob but now it’s viable to have both for damage and shield on Krusha or even drop the Weirdnob and just have the fun-guy as my shield.  I can see myself maybe dropping out 5 Brutes or 3 pigs for Ironskulls boyz and the fun-guy in some lists maybe :-)

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As a mystic shield buffer he's still better than all the alternatives, at 80 points he's cheap and has better survivability than a Gitmob. Plus the once per battle 2 spells with reroll is like the moonclan shaman without the chance of him stunning himself by accident. 

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-The Green Iron Tide-

‘Ello Boyz

Was playing around with this idea of a Megaboss-less army this morning. Focusing on (lotz’a)MSU

You could probably have more Gruntas than Brutes... I just like the Brute models better 

 

Warchanter (General) - Prophet of The Waagh - Boss Skewer
Warchanter - Goldentoof
Warchanter - Metal Ripper
Grot Shaman
-Iron fist-
Brutes (5) x5 - choppas 
-Gorefist-
Gruntas (3) x3 - choppas

 

My idea would be to try and get a good Waaagh off and then Frenzy the 3 gruntas units before their gorefist move. Then footslog each unit up the board in a nice green tide. 

I know there’s not a huge amount of combat punch but I’ve found these boyz do stick around. And with the 3 warchanters buffing each turn could prove to be quite cunnin’

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If you're doing MSU Brutes take a Brutefist imo. The mortal if you can pop a destruction move on them. I'd skip out on the Gorefist, it's ideally used for an alpha strike and you are lacking the power to really back an alphastrike up.

Is it that you want no Megaboss or no Cabbage. Cos a bunch of footbosses would actually go quite well with MSU brutefist.

Quote

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
Orruk Megaboss (140)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Battalions
Brute Fist (180)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143

 

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1 hour ago, Malakree said:

If you're doing MSU Brutes take a Brutefist imo. The mortal if you can pop a destruction move on them. I'd skip out on the Gorefist, it's ideally used for an alpha strike and you are lacking the power to really back an alphastrike up.

Is it that you want no Megaboss or no Cabbage. Cos a bunch of footbosses would actually go quite well with MSU brutefist.

 

I was really looking at just seeing if a list would work without any Megabosses whatsoever. 

Tbh I’ve never tried a Gorefist alpha so thanks for the heads up. 

Dont you find the list lacking in speed without Ironfist? And I’m not too thrilled about the Shaman at 120pts... would rather a moonclan shaman tbh (2+ to get +2 to cast mystic shield) 

 

thanks for your thoughts!

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28 minutes ago, Lanoss said:

I was really looking at just seeing if a list would work without any Megabosses whatsoever. 

Ok cool, definitely want a weirdnob in there just for the mortal wound output. 

29 minutes ago, Lanoss said:

Tbh I’ve never tried a Gorefist alpha so thanks for the heads up. 

Think of most of your games then just imagine turn 1 you put 9 GG's into the enemies face. Sounds cool till you realise you are paying 220 points for the privilege and that they will then have a turn or two against the entire enemy army with no support. Realistically what you are doing is dividing your army into 2 for the opponent to deal with piecemeal.

Small units of GG's like you're using are probably best deployed as flanking/harasment forces and you can get 3 GG's plus an allied shaman (220 points) for the same as the gorefist.

32 minutes ago, Lanoss said:

Dont you find the list lacking in speed without Ironfist?

Aye you will be slow, to be honest I'm not 100% sure the Brutefist is going to be better. That said everything about your list is off the wall and the free mortal wounds are never to be sniffed at. That said the only time you would want to MSU brutes is if you are running a Brutefist, literally everything else in the allegiance works better if you stack up larger units rather than MSU so it's more of a case of in for a penny in for a pound.

As an example, if you have 5 units of 5 brutes and 3 warchanters then only 15 of your brutes will get the +1 to hit. if you have 1 unit of 10 and 1 unit of 15 then you have 10 brutes with +1 and 15 brutes with +2 to hit. Moreover you not only have a better chance of triggering smashing and bashing but when you do it's far more effective and giving you combat priority on a much larger portion of your army. So it's not that I think the Brutefist will be better but if you aren't going for the Brutefist then you should consolidate your army into a smaller number large units rather than MSU.

42 minutes ago, Lanoss said:

And I’m not too thrilled about the Shaman at 120pts... would rather a moonclan shaman tbh (2+ to get +2 to cast mystic shield) 

If you can fit him in he's worth it, he's way tankier (+2 wounds and a better save) and Foot of Gork is a fantastic tool to have around even if you never use it. There will be games where you have basically lost that you just say "****** it foot of gork" then it goes off, decimates your opponents army and you win. If you are on a budget then yes go for a grot shaman, the new Fungoid Cave Shaman looks AMAZING for that role.

If you want something off the wall, I'd recommend a weirdfist list, it's silly and random but can be hilarious. If you want MSU go for a Brutefist list. If you want no Megaboss but potentially competitive then I'd probably go for something close to your original list but with only the Ironfist and the Brutes consolidated into 3 units of 10. Really depends where you want to go with it.

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2 hours ago, Lanoss said:

Dont you find the list lacking in speed without Ironfist? And I’m not too thrilled about the Shaman at 120pts... would rather a moonclan shaman tbh (2+ to get +2 to cast mystic shield) 

Just a word of caution here bud, the mushroom isn't as big a freebie as it first looks!  Beat a 2+ and then virtually auto cast?  I can do that, easy!  

When you do the maths it's a lot more marginal than it seems.  The chance of popping that 1 almost wipes out the gains...you end up casting Mystic Shield 76% of the time instead of 72%

If you're near Arcane terrain, you're actually worse off eating the mushroom...you'll succeed 81% of the time with the mushroom, 83% of the time without it.  That 1 in 6 chance of autofailing burns!

On the other hand, the new guy has a 92% chance of casting Mystic Shield with his reroll (once per game). 

So the one time you absolutely must cast it - he's your best shot.  And you get the second cast for "free".

If you have access to Arcane terrain - you are better off without the mushroom anyway.

And in all other cases, the benefit of the mushroom is very marginal.

So given the above, plus extra survivability, and let's be honest the fact that he's a shiny new thing, I'd be taking the Cave Shaman and using him as such rather than as a Moonclan Shaman!

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Cheers guys @PlasticCraic & @Malakree

Yeah I’ve mostly used GG as flanking/unit ties. 

Good point on the Shaman. 

And ill consider the Brutefist ay. 3 units of 10.  

 

My my aim is not to be competitive. Just shenanigans to pull at my local GW. So may consider trading the gorefist for either another unit of Brutes or another Grot Shaman and Orruk Shaman... (the Cave Shaman depending on what his point cost will be) 

 

thanks again boyz

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If you're interested in mixing up your playstyles, there is a good YouTube video out there called "Ironjawz Unlocked".  Doom and Darkness talks through the faction in general, then comes up with a couple of lists - one of which is a double Maw Krusha list with Gorefist.  The playstyle is more "Alpha Bunker" than alpha strike, although you will chew through a lot of models with poor / average saves.  Basically you push forward your pork line. to pin your opponent in their deployment zone, while your heroes move onto objectives.  Then anything that breaks through the line / flying retreats over the top / deep strikes gets 2 buffed Maw Krushas as a welcoming committee.

It certainly won't always win, but it's quite an interesting build.

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Playing about with lists again, as before all mine are not for tournements and such but just for fun - 

 

With this one I was trying to get a list that punches hard, very hard like Ironjawz should! I also always like to through in a oversized ridiculous monster somewhere in a setup cause what's a fantasy wargame without an oversized ridiculous monster after all!

 

Megaboss (General) - Hulking brute, Golden toof

Megaboss - Boss Skewer

Megaboss on Maw-crusha - Destroyer 

Weirdnob Shaman - Daubing of Mork

Warchanter - Armour of Gork

5 Brutes

5 Brutes

3 Gore Gruntas 

3 Gore Gruntas 

Rouge Idol (Ally)

 

1980points altogether, general idea is to run the 2 warbosses with their own 5 man brute unit, Warchanter buffing as they go along.

Weirdnob to make the most of the Idol granting casting buff and even if I'm lucky stacking with Orukk model count if the fighting is all in one place (although with Idol hitting anything in 3" I'll be trying to stay relatively clear)

Can either run the Gruntas and Maw-crusha up for wave 1 while wave 2 catches up or runs to objectives 

I've not played many AoS games so this is where things can fall down, model count isn't high but is that too much of a worry? Does it depend who your facing? Also are we only able to give one Artifact per list? Otherwise the 3 Warbosses would have Destroyer :D

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36 minutes ago, TeddyMadeMeDoIt said:

I've not played many AoS games so this is where things can fall down, model count isn't high but is that too much of a worry? Does it depend who your facing? Also are we only able to give one Artifact per list? Otherwise the 3 Warbosses would have Destroyer :D

You can only have 1 artefact of any type. You can have 1 artefact of ANY kind in your army and an additional one for each battalion in your army.

As a result you can't run all those artefacts sry.

37 minutes ago, TeddyMadeMeDoIt said:

1980points altogether, general idea is to run the 2 warbosses with their own 5 man brute unit, Warchanter buffing as they go along.

The problem is that you're diluting the power of your buffs and spreading out your combat activations leaving you open to counter attacks against whatever doesn't activate. I don't know what you have in your collection, so it's hard to make suggestions, but if you want punchy then combine the Brutes together, get more warchanters and swap out the rogue idol for another mawkrusha. 

Spoiler

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
- Ironjawz Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Total: 1940 / 2000
Wounds: 115
 

The warchanter buffs make your MK or Brute squads absolutely amazing damage output really capable of shredding things.

An even more filthy list would be something like 

Spoiler

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner
- Allies

Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Total: 1940 / 2000
Allies: 140 / 400
Wounds: 93

It's super fast and with the Warboss on a boar your whole army can get across the board in record time. You can also spam the Waaagh! on your MK fishing for that 2 extra attacks. Not to mention your opponent potentially has to soak 3 MK charges all with +2 attacks rerolling 1s to wound....If you want punchy nothing does it quite like the cabbages fists making 6 attacks on 2+/3+(rr1)/-2/3!

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Thanks for all the advice @Malakree

I'm looking to build my Ironjawz off the back of Malign Portents, so far I have the SC box and some black orcs from the old world days but I'm throwing in all kinds of builds to play about and see where I want to go. The Rouge Idol is something I have decided to sculpt as a bit of a challenge to see how much under £69 I can get, most of my Destruction a the moment is built up of old Moonclan minis to be repainted again soon

Certainly seems throughout these lists Cabbages are a must have 

At the moment I have;

25 Ard Boyz, Warchanter and 3 GG's. Looking to pick up a Megaboss for month 3 just to give me a chance to finish in time.

The first game I had against Death I ran Warchanter, 2 units of 10 Ard Boyz, 3 GG's and an Aleguzzler gargant (mainly because I had a FW mini I'd never used and had for 13+ years). We hit hard but not quite hard enough for Death, did well against elves though. 

To be fair with a large collection of other Destruction too I'll look to match all sorts of combinations with Moonclan and spiders too, just to mix things up and keep it fun

 

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8 hours ago, TeddyMadeMeDoIt said:

I'm looking to build my Ironjawz off the back of Malign Portents, so far I have the SC box and some black orcs from the old world days but I'm throwing in all kinds of builds to play about and see where I want to go. The Rouge Idol is something I have decided to sculpt as a bit of a challenge to see how much under £69 I can get, most of my Destruction a the moment is built up of old Moonclan minis to be repainted again soon

Certainly seems throughout these lists Cabbages are a must have 


25 Ard Boyz, Warchanter and 3 GG's. Looking to pick up a Megaboss for month 3 just to give me a chance to finish in time.

Ok cool, I basically did the same thing 9 months early :D Yeah the cabbage is just, it hits so hard and is unconditional damage in a way the brutes aren't.

I'd recommend picking up a weirdnob warband soon and trying out the 30 Ardboys, I honestly love them, they are rock which I position and move my army around. At 450 points Ironjawz has no better tarpits, combining the Big Choppas and shields makes them so tanky, not to mention they make it super easy to get the +2 on your weirdnob shaman. Lastly being in a unit of 30 means their bravery isn't a problem since they get the +2 (after a casualty) from having 20 models and +2 from the Waaagh! banner putting them at bravery 10, even if some do then flee you get to roll a 6+ to see if they don't.

As I said above Ironjawz really benefits from having a small quantity of big units, the only thing in the entire army which is good for MSU is the brutefist. Smashing and Bashing, Warchanter buffs even then Ardboys weapon loadouts all get better in bigger units.

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Speaking of the Maw-crusha, mine carried me to a 2-1 Victory at a tournament this past weekend.  1000 points, relaxed, and was the first AoS tournament at this shop, and the first tournament the TO had ever organized.  But that Maw-crusha was brutal!

I mean, I painted mine up and played with it because it looked cool.  And then I find out that its Fists are -2 Rend 3 Damage. , which is far better than I actually expecting!  That'll teach me to not read the Warscrolls better!  It basically tore through everything when it was rolling anything above whiffing, and that mobility is really nice in an Ironjawz list.

My list was:

  • Megaboss on Maw-crusha (General, Ironclad, Daubing of Mork)
  • Warchanter
  • Brute Squad
  • Gore-gruntas Squad
  • Ironskull's Boys

Not really competitive, but I went with what I had painted up the best, and just really wanted to field the Maw-crusha.  My first opponent was a Nurgle Maggotkin list that was hero-heavy with lost of magic that ended up whiffing on rolls.  My second game was against a Seraphon Saurus Knight list.  And my third game was against a Seraphon Skink list with a Bastiladon in there and enough shenanigans to get it up to a 2+ re-rollable Save.

That Bastiladon, man.  When my army is build around lots of attacks with some Rending, that things just shrugs it off without any trouble.

I did find that Ironskull's boys were decent as well.  As a squad, they are handy character-killers, or can take on a mid-sized unit without too much concern.  And between them and the Daubing of Mork on my Maw-crusha, I made plenty of those 6+ special saves.

My MVP was the Megaboss, who is like one of my favorite models right now in every way possible.  Waaagh!

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I have a 1k tourney coming up and I’m playing with the idea of

Megaboss (metal ripper) 

Warchanter x2

Fungoid

Brutes x5

Gruntas 3x3

 

I would drop the warchanters for another unit of Brutes but I find them too beneficial to lose 

OR I’d use the Fungoid as a reg Moonclan shaman 

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