Weapons on models vs Warscroll(s)

[Chillpill]

Hi all,

Quick question about something that is probably really obvious and I just overlooked it but... how strict are Tournaments in the UK for example usually with the models having to have the weapons equipped that they are actually using in the Warscrolls/Army List I would take?

Reason I am asking is because I picked the combinations that looked best according to my liking/taste so far... not necessarily the "best" for an actual list?

[someone2040]

Usually pretty strict. Your best bet is to talk to the TO about it. 

Usually if an entire unit has to be equipt with the same weapon type, and majority of the unit has that weapon, you'll probably be able to get away with it. 

In general, the onus of remembering what unit has what should not be put onto the opponent based on your modelling decisions. It should be clear what models are equipt with what weapons, and the easiest way is WYSIWYG.

[BURF1]

1 hour ago, someone2040 said:

Usually pretty strict. Your best bet is to talk to the TO about it. 

Usually if an entire unit has to be equipt with the same weapon type, and majority of the unit has that weapon, you'll probably be able to get away with it. 

In general, the onus of remembering what unit has what should not be put onto the opponent based on your modelling decisions. It should be clear what models are equipt with what weapons, and the easiest way is WYSIWYG.

Too expand, you can usually get away with some non-What You See Is What You Get models but it's risky. The first time your opponent gets screwed over because he saw your model has a crossbow and made a decision as if it were a crossbow only to find out it's actually a long bow is pretty much a (deserved) auto-loss for you.

[RuneBrush]

Generally you should be aiming for an accurate representation of what the unit has listed on it's warscroll.  There are a few things that people accept - so unit command (champion, musician, banner) may have a slight deviation (a unit of spear wielding Skeletons may have their command equipped with swords for example).  The key bit is to make sure it's not ambiguous, so if a unit can be armed with rusted swords or bloody maces, kitting them with axes is going to be pretty obvious you're using the sword rules, but giving them hammers with blades on could swing either way.

Checking with the TO and maxing sure you state to your opponent is the key item though.

[Killax]

Check the rules for your local Tournaments in regards to this, the one is more strict as the other. As others have said though AoS doesn't have the most strict WYSIWYG rules but it is very important not to cause any confusion, especially if the difference in weapon is Spear vs Sword and really alters how a unit functions. 

Going by what looks cool as such isn't always the best option for tournaments. 

[Koalaninja]

I've never been to a Tournament but would love to one day. However my models are also modelled incorrectly. For example my Brutes are all duel wielding gore hackers and choppas as I think it looks great. 

[stato]

12 minutes ago, Koalaninja said:

I've never been to a Tournament but would love to one day. However my models are also modelled incorrectly. For example my Brutes are all duel wielding gore hackers and choppas as I think it looks great. 

As long as you are consistent and the opponent can easily follow then you should be fine. So if they are all modelled the same you could easily follow that all the models were the same weapon so count as single handed.  Of course if you then try and include some special weapons it becomes complicated so probably not the best idea.

For hero's, if they have 2 options and youve modelled one of them, you should run those rules. If you have modelled a weapon they dont have, then it may be allowed as a 'represents'.  

For example I have a GW Dwarf Lord with Double handed weapon, the only pointed scroll has a Lord (now Warden) equipped with an axe and Shield, so as long as I inform my opponent there is no issue. Example 2, dwarf warriors can have single or double handed weapons, i have some modelled either way and only run them as modelled

[Koalaninja]

Would you be able to share a list with your opponent with weapon options included? 

Its a harsh penalty especially with Brutes. What do I do with the boss and the special weapon upgrades? If I run a squad of 10 I have one boss if I run in 5's I have two bosses. It's awkward. 

[Moonlightwolf]

Just to expand the question slightly if a warscroll doesn't have any options ie. it will always be equipped with everything on the warscroll with no variation are tournaments more forgiving of non wysiwyg conversions, assuming they don't vastly change the size/shape of the model?

[Terry Pike]

This is from the FaceHammer GT Tournament Pack:

"Your models must display all unit options, command models and upgrades where appropriate.

• For example if the models in a liberator unit have Sigmarite Hammers and a Grand Hammer you cannot use the rules for Sigmarite Swords and a Grand Blade."

Most packs will have something similar and if you are unsure just contact the tournament organiser as early as possible so you can make any changes if needed.

I think the most stand out example of having the correct weapon options is with units such as Stormfiends. Having played in events where people turn up with a unit of 6 armed with whats in the box and then try to use them as 6 Warpfire Projectors (when only 2 have them) has caused some issues.

[Jaehaerys]

1 hour ago, Terry Pike said:

This is from the FaceHammer GT Tournament Pack:

"Your models must display all unit options, command models and upgrades where appropriate.

• For example if the models in a liberator unit have Sigmarite Hammers and a Grand Hammer you cannot use the rules for Sigmarite Swords and a Grand Blade."

Most packs will have something similar and if you are unsure just contact the tournament organiser as early as possible so you can make any changes if needed.

I think the most stand out example of having the correct weapon options is with units such as Stormfiends. Having played in events where people turn up with a unit of 6 armed with whats in the box and then try to use them as 6 Warpfire Projectors (when only 2 have them) has caused some issues.

In your experience what's it like if I have both options? My Wight Hero for deathrattle has both standard and shield. I attached the banner because I'm not good enough to remove the shield from the model and the FW one is no longer available. Is it okay in your experience if I just declare which I am using in my list?

[Terry Pike]

If you have both options just have it written down on your army list so your opponent can see it before the start of the game.

[Veillotron]

5 hours ago, Terry Pike said:

If you have both options just have it written down on your army list so your opponent can see it before the start of the game.

I would think that this is the easy solution to the problem.

I abide by WYSIWYG, but I don't feel the need to enforce it on other people .

The key point from a competitive standpoint (at least in my humble opinion) is to avoid bad surprises - getting a printed list upfront ensures it is crystal clear what I am playing against. 

 

 

[Sleboda]

10 hours ago, stato said:

long as you are consistent and the opponent can easily follow then you should be fine

My rule of thumb, one I apply to myself and dream that one day others will opt to apply to themselves,  is this-

If I can place the army on the table,  grouped/arranged as an army (so, units, not a chaotic mass of individuals), and my opponent can identify what every single thing is (stuff that's shown, not stuff like which spell a dude picked)  without me saying a word or putting down little labels, then it is fine. 

[Wraith01]

I haven't played in a tournament but at my local gaming shop we play based on what the models have equiped. What you see is what you get. When I started going and getting involved, that's simply how it was, so I equiped my models with the weapons I wanted them to use. Sure they allowed proxies but they would joke and heckle until you got the proper mini's, and got them painted. 

[Terry Pike]

7 hours ago, Wraith01 said:

I haven't played in a tournament but at my local gaming shop we play based on what the models have equiped. What you see is what you get. When I started going and getting involved, that's simply how it was, so I equiped my models with the weapons I wanted them to use. Sure they allowed proxies but they would joke and heckle until you got the proper mini's, and got them painted. 

When I ran a Games Workshop store I have a rule in place for people using models:

-1 save if its just built and sprayed a colour/primer

-2 save it its just bare plastic/finecast/metal

-3 save if its missing bits or is half built

People soon got there stuff base coated!

[RuneBrush]

50 minutes ago, Terry Pike said:

When I ran a Games Workshop store I have a rule in place for people using models:

-1 save if its just built and sprayed a colour/primer

-2 save it its just bare plastic/finecast/metal

-3 save if its missing bits or is half built

People soon got there stuff base coated!

I really like that!  Will have to keep that in mind if ever it becomes an issue where I play