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Let's chat: Daughters of Khaine

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On 6/10/2018 at 4:28 PM, Lucentia said:

I am now back from this event which was, as always, a whole lot of fun.  I even managed to scrape a very respectable 11th place (out of 88 competitors) which is the best I've ever done competitively and I am very pleased with!

Quite a nasty field to my eye, even the lower tables were featuring some pretty lethal looking lists, lots of Nagash, lots of Tzeentch, fair amount of Nurgle and a considerable number of DoK.

My list was Hagg Nar with Morathi, Slaughter Cauldron General, 2 Hag Queens, 30 Witch Aelves, 10 Witch Aelves, 10 Sisters of Slaughter, 15 Blood Sisters and 2x5 Heartrenders.  I wanted to run a bit of a mix of everything, and I couldn't resist taking Morathi along to the sort of competitive christening of the new book given that she's the centerpiece, and all.

Game 1 was Starstrike versus Legions of Nagash (Nagash, 40 skellies, 10 skellies, 10 Black knights, 2 Morghasts, 2 Necromancers).   My opponent managed to double cast shadow pinions on the first time and decided to whizz Nagash up for a first turn charge, where he managed to deal  a grand total of 3 wounds to the Blood Sisters and was promptly chopped down in return when I manage to get the 2nd turn priority roll.  After that it was mostly just mopping up and snagging the objectives as they fell.

Game 2 was Duality of Death versus Stormcast (Using the battallion which lets you taxi in units of paladins via prosecutors, 3x5 Judicators as troops, 2 Relictors, Lord-Celestant, 10 protectors, 10 retributors,  1 Spellweaver).  I messed up my deployment here cos I slightly misunderstood how the battalion worked and didn't screen properly.  Fortunately Morathi is just flat busted in this mission, which saved me some real trouble.  I got first turn and put transformed Morathi onto one objective, and I absolutely, 100% should have dropped the Khinerai onto the other one to prevent my opponent from just Lightning Chariot, which of course they promptly did.  And at the same time they dumped 20 paladins right in my face, shot off my 10 model witch screen, charged through and killed off a good 9 or so of the Blood Sisters whilst slapping the cauldron down by 10 wounds.  Fortunately another priority roll in my favour let me fix things up, a successful Mindrazor on the witch blob cleared out all the Paladins, and it was a bit of a messy combat round that objective for the rest of the game until the surviving Blood Sisters managed to get in and mince the stormcast heroes.  This was the only game in the tournament where my general was killed, and also the only game where Morathi wasn't wounded (or indeed targeted) at all.  Also the 10 model unit of Sisters of Slaughter really pulled their weight, originally positioned just to screen Morathi they were able to sneak in and use their 6" pile in to snake their way between the backfield Judicator units to great effect.

Game 3 was Battle for the Pass versus Disciples of Tzeentch (Lord of Change, 3x Tzaangor Shamans, 4x 10 Tzaangor units, 2x 10 Brimstone Horrors, 2x 30 Brimstone Horrors, 6x Skyfires).  A bit of a messy match here, all those horrors gave my opponent formidable board control.  I gambled on a double turn to try and dash across the no man's land, which I didn't get, allowing the Tzeenth forces to really put the pressure on, killing most of the Blood Sisters and all of the Sisters of Slaughter, dominating the central objectives for the most part.   There were only ~3 Blood Sisters left at the top of my 2nd turn, so it was really up to the Witches to save the day, which they began by wiping out the Lord of Change and 10 Tzaangors, Morathi transforming to deal with the Skyfires and free up some pressure from the remaining Blood Sisters (who were only finally wiped out in the closing turns of the game).  Lots of tricky, careful combats and movement, I had to have the Cauldron and Hag Queens running around to stop Shamans zipping onto my home objective.   The 30 model units of Brimstone Horrors were positioned in an elongated V from back of my opponents board edge to the central objectives, positioned to prevent my Heartrenders from dropping in and doing anything, but one of the Brimstone units manged to get embroiled in a busy combat, enough for me to sprinkle attacks on them just enough to leave a space for the Khinerai to swoop in and snag 4 points with their 6" bonus move.  I got pretty lucky to win this one, I thought my opponent had it in the bag after the first couple of rounds, but things just flicked in my favour.

Game 4 was Knife to the Heart versus Disciples of Tzeentch (2x Tzaangor Shamans, 30x Tzaangors, 20x Tzaangors, 20x Tzaangors, 10x Blue Horrors, Changeling, Gaunt Summoner).  It was pretty fun to see a melee Tzeentch army, but this was also my first (and only) loss of the tournament, so not that fun I guess!  They used the Balewind shunt (which is still kinda lame, but whatever) and destiny dice to ensure a big first turn charge, wiping out the 30 witches, over half the Blood Sisters and all the Sisters of Slaughter.  Though with Mindrazor the remaining Blood Sisters did manage to chop through the 30 Tzaangors (with some help from the doomed Sisters of Slaughter shields!) but that still left 40 Tzaangors to deal with, on top of the magic.  Morathi tried to snipe off the Gaunt Summoner but failed to do so at every opportunity, in the end I dropped the Khinerai just to kill him for some kill points.  Of course on Knife to the Heart getting a major victory is extremely difficult so I could keep things to a minor loss by just backing up and keeping him from charging any further without giving me more points.  We did continue the game a little beyond the official end point and decided that if I had pushed forwards instead (and gotten every buff off at every possible moment...) then I could have probably sneaked the minor win here, but, that's how it goes!

Game 5 was Scorched Earth versus Stormcast (Drakesworn Templar, 4x Fulminators, 2x Tempestors, Relictor, Castellant, Venator, 3x5 Liberators, 3x Longstrikes.  The last game of the event, everyone is always pretty tired.  My opponent made a mistake in advancing his drakes forwards but leaving his Fulminators out of range of Staunch Defender, the priority role fell in my favour and I was able to buff the Blood Sisters to the nines and delete that threat.  Of course he did manage to land a single wound on Morathi via Rain of Stairs, who then immediately got mad and transformed, preventing me from using her to snipe out his support heroes from afar, instead she winged up the board and spent the rest of the game ineffectually flailing at 5 liberators....  I dropped the Khinerai to attempt to steal and burn the two objectives that were guarded only by 5 liberators, but failed to do anything of note on both counts.  The stardrake and tempestors moved to try and retake control of the situation, each charging at one side of the big witch squad to prevent too many from piling in whilst the stardrake started chowing on Blood Sisters.  But the priority roll fell in my favour once again and I was able to take out the stardrake with the Cauldron's command ability on the sisters, freeing them up to move right up into all the support heroes and burn the central objective, which was pretty much game, though we played on for the sake of kill points.

Overall I was 11th with a total of 8510 kill points out of a potential 10000, which is more than good enough for me.  I didn't get any of the fun special prizes for painting or best game though, I'll have to work on that!

I was debating lists which don't use Slaughter Cauldrons as the general, but that command ability, whilst situational, saved me so many times during the tournament that I don't think I can justify it.  Blood Sisters are hideously brutal, even when there's only a few left they still put in the work, MVPs in basically every match, not to disparage the good name of the Witch Aelves, who are always great.  I'm not very good with Khinerai I think, I never really got them to work as the character sniping, objective grabbing annoyance that they're suited for, though there is a psychological element in keeping your opponent spread out and wary to leave objectives which can be advantageous in and of itself.  I think putting them in 1 squad of 10 for one less drop, or at least get used to dropping both units in the same spot, and waiting till turn 3 to do so for the re-rolls, would probably see them a bit more impactful.  Morathi did not die in any of my games, though she came close a couple of times, she is quite expensive and inconsistent as a long range mortal wound source, which is how I default to using her, but Mindrazor is invaluable, and her transformed self can do some good stuff with buff support.  Plus the model is incredible, I don't see myself dropping her at present, but I imagine there is probably a better list without her in it.

Onwards to the finals in October then, let's see what AoS 2 has to offer!

Great tournament report! 11th overall is phenomenal!

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Hi everyone. 

New AoS player here. Ive never played a GW game before, forewarning you. I’m starting DoK as my first ever army (!) but looking just to play at about 1k points to start and build from there.

My first plan was to accommodate Morathi into a 1k list. (Mental note: start planning Morathi cosplay when I get around to buying her).

This is what I ended up with (and somehow, it doesn’t feel cheesy enough...)

Temple: Hagg Nar

1 Hag Queen (60)

General; Khainite Pendent, Catechism of Murder.

1 Hag Queen (60)

Blessing of Khaine.

1 Morathi (480)

20 Witch Aelves (200)

20 Witch Aelves (200)

 

Not sure about that list because I don’t really want Witches without a CoB. I’m pro Melusai so figured the following alternative list:

Temple: Hagg Nar 

1 Bloodwrack Shrine (Mindrazor) (220)

Shadow Stone or Amulet of Dark Fire

1 Hag Queen (Catechism of Murder) (60)

10 Blood Sisters (280)

10 Blood Sisters (280)

5 Khinerai Heartrenders (80)

5 Khinerai Heartrenders (80)

I’m trying to build a balanced all-comers list as I still get used to the game and just want a decent range of options. I think the second list looks better but the first list feels oddly fun (+ Morathi). 

Here’s where I’m stuck:

1. How badly do I need a CoB? Are my Melusai going to get throttled hard at 1k? Given the Medusa-General requirement, I can’t get a Hag-CoB or a Slaughter-CoB in here! 

2. Thanks to the upcoming “Look Out Sir (ARGH)” rule, is my Foot-Hag going to be safer?  How many Foot-Hags should I be running at 1k? Are they going to die a lot? 

3. Can you play DoK without Witchbrew? Would Snake heavy lists get away without that on raw power? (This is my “blond” question of the day). 

4. Is it possible to even dream of a 1k Morathi list?! (Okay... two blond questions).

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Myra said:

Hi everyone. 

New AoS player here. Ive never played a GW game before, forewarning you. I’m starting DoK as my first ever army (!) but looking just to play at about 1k points to start and build from there.

My first plan was to accommodate Morathi into a 1k list. (Mental note: start planning Morathi cosplay when I get around to buying her).

This is what I ended up with (and somehow, it doesn’t feel cheesy enough...)

Temple: Hagg Nar

1 Hag Queen (60)

General; Khainite Pendent, Catechism of Murder.

1 Hag Queen (60)

Blessing of Khaine.

1 Morathi (480)

20 Witch Aelves (200)

20 Witch Aelves (200)

 

Not sure about that list because I don’t really want Witches without a CoB. I’m pro Melusai so figured the following alternative list:

Temple: Hagg Nar 

1 Bloodwrack Shrine (Mindrazor) (220)

Shadow Stone or Amulet of Dark Fire

1 Hag Queen (Catechism of Murder) (60)

10 Blood Sisters (280)

10 Blood Sisters (280)

5 Khinerai Heartrenders (80)

5 Khinerai Heartrenders (80)

I’m trying to build a balanced all-comers list as I still get used to the game and just want a decent range of options. I think the second list looks better but the first list feels oddly fun (+ Morathi). 

Here’s where I’m stuck:

1. How badly do I need a CoB? Are my Melusai going to get throttled hard at 1k? Given the Medusa-General requirement, I can’t get a Hag-CoB or a Slaughter-CoB in here! 

2. Thanks to the upcoming “Look Out Sir (ARGH)” rule, is my Foot-Hag going to be safer?  How many Foot-Hags should I be running at 1k? Are they going to die a lot? 

3. Can you play DoK without Witchbrew? Would Snake heavy lists get away without that on raw power? (This is my “blond” question of the day). 

4. Is it possible to even dream of a 1k Morathi list?! (Okay... two blond questions).

 

 

First of all, your two lists: I would take Morathi as your general. Her command ability is really powerful and at only 1K you have to use it. Sure, you loose out on the Hag-Narr trait but a Hag Queen is a easy target and they tend to die quickly. Even more so as they can hurt themselves when they roll 1 when praying. 

Your second list looks good. I regually use Blood Sisters and a Bloodwrack Shrine at 1K. But I recommend using 1 unit of 10 instead of 2x5 Heartrenders. This gives you one less deployment drop and Heartrenders only get reliable in greater numbers. 

 

Now to your questions.

1. A Cauldron is nice to have but a Hag-Narr Bloodwrack Shrines gives you the same level of protection.  Its also cheaper than a Cauldron, you can spent the difference on Hag Queens instead (seriously, Witch Brew is crazy good). 10 Blood Sisters are a force at 1K. Witch Brew, Catechism of Murder and Mindrazor and you can kill practically everything after turn 2. 

2. You should always run at least one Hag Queen. They die easily when focused down. Even quicker if you get unlucky when praying. 

3.  Seriously, take the Witch Brew! You get to re-roll all to-wound rolls and you dont have to take Bravery Tests. This gets even better next edition as you can save up Command Points this way as you dont have to spend them on inspiring presence. 

4. Yes. You can use her on 1K. You won't have much else on the battlefield besides her but thats perfectly fine if you have a more relaxed gaming group. 
 

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Hi guys!

I'm considering the following list. Either Hagg Nar or Khaileron (it'll come out during testing).

1x Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood

1x Bloodwrack Shrine (General)

2x Hag Queen

20x Blood Sisters

30x Witch Aelves

10x Witch Aelves

10x Doomfire Warlocks

10x Khinerai Heartrenders (or 2x5 but it'll come out during testing)

 

I really would like to fit Morathi into my list but she'll have to wait.

Anyways: any suggestions?

And most importantly: How do I actually use Doomfire Warlocks to be succesful with them and not feel like they're wasted (shot down?) points I could've used on Morathi?

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So points update from one of the unboxings, no unit changes but all battalions gone up. Slaughter Troupe by 50 as an example/

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11 hours ago, AsraiR said:

So points update from one of the unboxings, no unit changes but all battalions gone up. Slaughter Troupe by 50 as an example/

Are you sure that there are no points changes to units? 

I don't care much about Battalions as I hardly used them, tried Slaughter Troupe several times but it was nothing spectacular. 

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14 hours ago, AsraiR said:

So points update from one of the unboxings, no unit changes but all battalions gone up. Slaughter Troupe by 50 as an example/

Battalions just got more useful, yet I find DoK's battalions to be not that intuitive to use. Cauldron guard is probably the one I would use to get some CPs but even then, two units of Lifetakers as tax. In addition the bonus is not that great considering a simple banner and horn in a unit of Witches will get you into combat anyway. 

However I probably will pay the Lifetaker tax, for the drops and the added benefits it will have in the upcoming edition. Or I guess a snake heavy list, for the Temple Nest and pay the stalker tax and get a semi-decent benefit. But I guess most Factions have a tax to pay when it comes to battalions!

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2 hours ago, DantePQ said:

Are you sure that there are no points changes to units? 

I don't care much about Battalions as I hardly used them, tried Slaughter Troupe several times but it was nothing spectacular. 

The bonuses were basically nothing, I never even remembered to use the Slaughter troupe bonus, but getting the extra relic and reducing drops was worth the points. It's a nasty hit to Shadowhammer compact though, which was the only battalion that significantly impacted the way the list played.

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21 hours ago, Zerthin said:

Hi guys!

I'm considering the following list. Either Hagg Nar or Khaileron (it'll come out during testing).

1x Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood

1x Bloodwrack Shrine (General)

2x Hag Queen

20x Blood Sisters

30x Witch Aelves

10x Witch Aelves

10x Doomfire Warlocks

10x Khinerai Heartrenders (or 2x5 but it'll come out during testing)

 

I really would like to fit Morathi into my list but she'll have to wait.

Anyways: any suggestions?

And most importantly: How do I actually use Doomfire Warlocks to be succesful with them and not feel like they're wasted (shot down?) points I could've used on Morathi?

You could bubble wrap them with your small unit of 10 Witches- You still have your bloodwrack shrine to cast Mindrazor on your sisters, and it's more survivable (theoretically). Warlocks will be good to grab objectives and unbind spells but put your better spells on the Shrine for sure. Your Blood Sisters, with Mindrazor, Brew and Turn Three bonuses should take care of the rest ;)

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8 minutes ago, ClockworkGeo91 said:

Battalions just got more useful, yet I find DoK's battalions to be not that intuitive to use. Cauldron guard is probably the one I would use to get some CPs but even then, two units of Lifetakers as tax. In addition the bonus is not that great considering a simple banner and horn in a unit of Witches will get you into combat anyway. 

However I probably will pay the Lifetaker tax, for the drops and the added benefits it will have in the upcoming edition. Or I guess a snake heavy list, for the Temple Nest and pay the stalker tax and get a semi-decent benefit. But I guess most Factions have a tax to pay when it comes to battalions!

Slaughter troupe is still the only really viable battalion in my opinion. It's the only one that doesn't force you to take subpar units. With the battalions being more expensive, adding tax units on top of them pushes them out of contention unless you desperately need two relics. You'd generally be better off just taking better units and saving 50pts for a CP or endless spell.

I think they really whiffed on DoK here, especially not changing Blood Sisters in an edition that HEAVILY nerfs shooting. I guess it depends on where everyone ELSE ends up after the dust clears, though.

Edited by Bellfree
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I think DoK is amazing and no changes to points is big relief (as there was the concern of Witches going up in points) 

Blood Stalkers need rules re-write as I mentioned earlier even at 120 points and Batteline with Medusa they would be average. I think DoK with new edition (extra protection for small heroes from shooting as Cauldrons and Shrines are Behemoths now, greater unbid range, great new Command Abilities, some endless spells which could be huge for DoK (+2 Movements and re-roll charges for buffed up Witches), nerfed shooting) got better and GW didn't mess it up. 

Sure Slaughter Troupe was useful, but I didn't really used it very much as Amulet of Dark Fire was go-to relic for me and with 30'' unbid range and more autounbid mechanics in game I think Morathi is great as lone caster (and near arcane she is awesome) so I don't need Medusa much (when I am using non Blood Sisters army) Morathi got just much better and is easily worth her points. 

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3 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

I think DoK is amazing and no changes to points is big relief (as there was the concern of Witches going up in points) 

Blood Stalkers need rules re-write as I mentioned earlier even at 120 points and Batteline with Medusa they would be average. I think DoK with new edition (extra protection for small heroes from shooting as Cauldrons and Shrines are Behemoths now, greater unbid range, great new Command Abilities, some endless spells which could be huge for DoK (+2 Movements and re-roll charges for buffed up Witches), nerfed shooting) got better and GW didn't mess it up. 

Sure Slaughter Troupe was useful, but I didn't really used it very much as Amulet of Dark Fire was go-to relic for me and with 30'' unbid range and more autounbid mechanics in game I think Morathi is great as lone caster (and near arcane she is awesome) so I don't need Medusa much (when I am using non Blood Sisters army) Morathi got just much better and is easily worth her points. 

Yeah I agree I'm happy with DoK, we are certainly a strong side with a really solid battleline, which is really worth the points. I was also worried about hags going up - for her price she is one of the best support heroes in the game!

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Yes my go-to army to test will look like that (but I guess I will play my 20 Blood Sisters Bloodwrack Shrine army as I planned to drop Morathi for second unit of 20 snakes but Morathi got much better now):

Morathi with Mindrazor 

SlaughterQueen on Cauldron with Heart of Woe (Blessing prayer)

3xHag Queen (Sacrament of Blood, Catechism,Martyr's Sacrifice) 

2x30 Witches (one unit with knives one with bucklers)

30 Sisters of Slaughter

2x5 Heartrenders

1990

that's a lot of bodies, 3 spells a turn, also I can easily drop one hag queen/one unit of heartrenders for endless spell or both for spellcaster or warlocks. 

 

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2 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Yes my go-to army to test will look like that (but I guess I will play my 20 Blood Sisters Bloodwrack Shrine army as I planned to drop Morathi for second unit of 20 snakes but Morathi got much better now):

Morathi with Mindrazor 

SlaughterQueen on Cauldron with Heart of Woe (Blessing prayer)

3xHag Queen (Sacrament of Blood, Catechism,Martyr's Sacrifice) 

2x30 Witches (one unit with knives one with bucklers)

30 Sisters of Slaughter

2x5 Heartrenders

1990

that's a lot of bodies, 3 spells a turn, also I can easily drop one hag queen/one unit of heartrenders for endless spell or both for spellcaster or warlocks. 

 

Looks solid, let us know how Morathi fares.

Have you had success with the sisters of slaughter to this point? My preference would have been to take Blood Sisters instead but I guess you'd need to spread your battleline more in that case. Two blobs of Witches will certainly delete most of your enemy supported by the hag queens.

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1 hour ago, DantePQ said:

I think DoK is amazing and no changes to points is big relief (as there was the concern of Witches going up in points) 

Blood Stalkers need rules re-write as I mentioned earlier even at 120 points and Batteline with Medusa they would be average. I think DoK with new edition (extra protection for small heroes from shooting as Cauldrons and Shrines are Behemoths now, greater unbid range, great new Command Abilities, some endless spells which could be huge for DoK (+2 Movements and re-roll charges for buffed up Witches), nerfed shooting) got better and GW didn't mess it up. 

Sure Slaughter Troupe was useful, but I didn't really used it very much as Amulet of Dark Fire was go-to relic for me and with 30'' unbid range and more autounbid mechanics in game I think Morathi is great as lone caster (and near arcane she is awesome) so I don't need Medusa much (when I am using non Blood Sisters army) Morathi got just much better and is easily worth her points. 

I was more referring to taking this as an opportunity to bring weaker performers in line with the rest of the book. The overall powerlevel is still fine, we might even end up better.

I liked having cheap detachments because it let me take both major buff relics(additional prayer and +1 reroll 1 to cast) I never had much of a use for Amulet of Dark fire as I never ran into that many spell mortals. Human form Morathi got massively better, I agree, but I hate only having one caster.

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For me Morathi fared great, I've played like 30+ competitive games with DoK with all kind of battalions/army lists but used Morathi in majority of them and she's great, after team tournaments where I went 4 out of 5 wins (all 4 majors with record number of kill points) I wanted to try list without her (2x20 Blood Sisters list) but with all those new rules she got much better (2x 30'' unbids with +1   to unbid, in monster form ability to be nearby units deep into enemy territory to boost them with Command Abilites, extra -1 to hit with shooting in small form)

Sisters of Slaughter are great with taking turns in combat as you can pile-in them as extra activion with enemy having no chance to attacks them, they worked great everytime I used them, sure if you don't have spare points witches are go-to unit, but if you got some spare points they are worth it). 

I got to look through new relics as Crown of Woe is nice (but there could be something better) other option is relic that gives +1 to save (which would boost Cauldron save to 3+ and 5++)  with nerf to DoT and ThunderKroak Amulet of Dark Fire isn't that essential when taking HaggNarr. 

@BellfreeI don't know I am fine with one caster but I might end up taking a Medusa with relic, I don't really care about relics that much as Amulet of Dark Fire was good, and I didn't really needed second prayer (And I would rather take extra Hag Queen for that then Battalion) I could live with Slaughter Queen without relic and MEdusa with Shadow Stone when needed, unless there are some crazy good realm specific relics I don't really care but yes Slaughter Troupe was nice option to have and now it's gone. 

Edited by DantePQ
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7 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

I got to look through new relics as Crown of Woe is nice (but there could be something better) other option is relic that gives +1 to save (which would boost Cauldron save to 3+ and 5++)  with nerf to DoT and ThunderKroak Amulet of Dark Fire isn't that essential when taking HaggNarr. 

 

This is always a query I've had, does Cauldron of Blood benefit from it's own shield - i.e. it isn't actuall 5+ but it's 4+ with its own shield?

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No it is even confirmed in core rules: "If a unit has an ability that affects friendly units that are within a certain distance of it, then the ability will also affect the unit itself."

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15 minutes ago, Ered said:

No it is even confirmed in core rules: "If a unit has an ability that affects friendly units that are within a certain distance of it, then the ability will also affect the unit itself."

I meant: Now

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22 minutes ago, Scythian said:

Anyone heard or seen anything about the points, battleline, etc for our girls?

Sadly not yet.  Due to how good battalions are now, I've heard there are some points changes.

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6 hours ago, Scythian said:

Anyone heard or seen anything about the points, battleline, etc for our girls?

 

6 hours ago, DJMoose said:

Sadly not yet.  Due to how good battalions are now, I've heard there are some points changes.

Check out the points changes thread on the main forum section. 

 

Battalions have increased, but not the units. Some are more expensive than others. 

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