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Let's chat: Daughters of Khaine


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12 hours ago, Tiger said:

I wouldn't be so certain. Some mortal followers might hold more idealized tale or perhaps their idea of an afterlife might be something that doesn't involve the chaos gods.  Those sworn (willingly or not) to a specific god would probably had a good idea what awaits them. To many, the risk of obliterating their very existence on a chance of transcending the mundane world is a risk worth taking.

Exactly, it is a risk worth taking, either because they don't really see the downside or because they think they're better than it. And if that's with regular mortals imagine how it would be with aelves, a race know for its arrogance. I think that the cult of Slaanesh still has a place in the mortal realms.

@DantePQ: aelves might think that by following Slaanesh they can avoid that fate, or maybe think that it is unavoidable anyways as I don't think there is a soul stone equivalent in AoS. Anyways, the relation between Slaanesh and Morathi still isn't clear, nor really the place of Slaanesh in the Mortal Realms, as he's basically missing, we still need more information.

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Even though it would make the army stronger, I hope we don't get lots of saving throws. However there are so many armies out there that are massively resilient that they may feel its needed to make the army competitive. I think witch aelves will get a 6+ armour save - just because everything that used to have save "-" has been getting 6+ if they get updated.

I would love to see poison weapons become a big feature of the army's weaponry - so the whole shift to snakes and stuff in the aesthetic is encouraging from this respect.

Witch aelves used to be considered fast with a 7" move and a dice re-roll on the charge (from musician) but now everything can teleport by various mechanics they seem slow. Hopefully they will just modify the standard move by giving us some spells/prayers, artefacts and abilities that improve movement. 

So I hope they make the army faster and deadlier but leave it quite fragile. The nurgle book was so well done that they have set the bar pretty high. I hope they can keep up that standard. getting the legions of Nagash book tomorrow so hopefully it will give an indicator of the consitency.

Not worried about crushed expectations - I've enjoyed all my games over the last year without a battletome so having one will be great whatever its like!

4 hours ago, The Traitor said:

aelves might think that by following Slaanesh they can avoid that fate, or maybe think that it is unavoidable anyways as I don't think there is a soul stone equivalent in AoS. Anyways, the relation between Slaanesh and Morathi still isn't clear, nor really the place of Slaanesh in the Mortal Realms, as he's basically missing, we still need more information.

Yeah I don't think we can make any definitive statements about Slaanesh until they publish something that lets us know where he fits into the Mortal Realms. We have dwarfs flying around with balloons strapped to their backs so nothing should be ruled out and everything is possible - even if it seems unlikely.

 

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There are other ways to improve survavibility then "saves" like army wide negative to hit/to wound modifiers or such negativie modifiers through :

- spells

- items 

- aura buffs. 

Also that kind of protection works pretty well with Aelves coming from/living in Uglu. 

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57 minutes ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

Even though it would make the army stronger, I hope we don't get lots of saving throws. However there are so many armies out there that are massively resilient that they may feel its needed to make the army competitive. I think witch aelves will get a 6+ armour save - just because everything that used to have save "-" has been getting 6+ if they get updated.

I would love to see poison weapons become a big feature of the army's weaponry - so the whole shift to snakes and stuff in the aesthetic is encouraging from this respect.

Witch aelves used to be considered fast with a 7" move and a dice re-roll on the charge (from musician) but now everything can teleport by various mechanics they seem slow. Hopefully they will just modify the standard move by giving us some spells/prayers, artefacts and abilities that improve movement. 

So I hope they make the army faster and deadlier but leave it quite fragile. The nurgle book was so well done that they have set the bar pretty high. I hope they can keep up that standard. getting the legions of Nagash book tomorrow so hopefully it will give an indicator of the consitency.

Not worried about crushed expectations - I've enjoyed all my games over the last year without a battletome so having one will be great whatever its like!

Yeah I don't think we can make any definitive statements about Slaanesh until they publish something that lets us know where he fits into the Mortal Realms. We have dwarfs flying around with balloons strapped to their backs so nothing should be ruled out and everything is possible - even if it seems unlikely.

 

Having gone through LoN...eh. It's not bad, it's an upgrade on what's currently available, but it also doesn't do much to address things that were underperforming and is restrictive in really odd ways. It's better than beastclaw raiders but worse than sylvaneth. After a fairly tremendous nurgle book there's no real argument that LoN isn't a step backwards.

It's so hard to gauge with GW. DoT comes out and is bonkers, SCE comes out and outside of invincible stardrakes and poorly written battalion rules is actually really really dull, then Kharadron comes out looking good until it gets Faqed into a single monobuild, then GHB makes Seraphon and Fyreslayers TOO good while not really adding a whole lot to the other allegiances. Then Nurgle comes out fantastic. 

DoK could honestly run the entire gamut of 'I'll just stick to generic Order traits thanks' to 'It's turn 2, where'd my changehost go?'

 

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3 hours ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

I would love to see poison weapons become a big feature of the army's weaponry - so the whole shift to snakes and stuff in the aesthetic is encouraging from this respect.

I've been thinking along these same lines.  Maybe something like, "At the end of the combat phase roll a d6 for each successful wound roll.  On a 5+ the unit suffers a mortal wound."  That way the enemy unit would still get its chance to fight while the poison worked its way through their bodies.

 

2 hours ago, Burf said:

Having gone through LoN...eh. It's not bad, it's an upgrade on what's currently available, but it also doesn't do much to address things that were underperforming and is restrictive in really odd ways. It's better than beastclaw raiders but worse than sylvaneth. After a fairly tremendous nurgle book there's no real argument that LoN isn't a step backwards.

Have to disagree.  I do think it is a step back from Nurgle, but there's a lot of potential to unlock and I think it eclipses Sylvaneth fairly substantially.  The lore spells are superb, the artifacts have 2 or more viable options per allegiance and the allegiance abilities are mostly useful.  Arkhan really shines and i think there's an at least semi-competitive Nagash list waiting to be built.   The ability to ambush with Terrorgheists in the Legion of Night could be extremely powerful and death players will be rewarded handsomely for good gravesite tactics. 

I certainly hope that the DoK book is on par with the Nurgle book, but I won't be terribly disappointed if it is only as good as the LoN book.

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@Richelieu that would actually be quite brutal on a unit of 30 witch elves doing 90 attacks! I would be happy enough with 6's causing a mortal but I hope you are right that it activates off the wound roll if we do get it - too many ways to get negative modifiers to hit! It would also be cool if they called them venomous weapons instead of poison weapons.

@Burf I think the Nurgle tome had its release date put back so I guess they had longer to work on it than usual. It also had twice as much playtesting as its predecessors (according to the Facehammer guys). I wish GW were not so inconsistent with the books, They seem to have done a pretty good job with the 40k codices considering the pace they are releasing them. There are a couple of dodgy points decisions but on the whole they seem fairly well balanced and playable for multiple builds in each book. Grey Knights and Ad Mech are maybe a bit more limited but I think thats down to the model ranges available.

Got a despatch note for Legions of Nagash today so I guess I can look forward to reading that over the weekend.

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11 hours ago, The Traitor said:

Exactly, it is a risk worth taking, either because they don't really see the downside or because they think they're better than it. And if that's with regular mortals imagine how it would be with aelves, a race know for its arrogance. I think that the cult of Slaanesh still has a place in the mortal realms.

The elves were always portrayed with the motive of a fickle self indulgence that can easily cross into more sinister area. Pre and during the Sundering  not all Cults of Excess were calling on Slaanesh as their patron, the events highlight how the foundation of entire elven society was shaken by  indulging rather than becoming aware of its darker aspects. Malekith prosecuting and purging unsanctioned cults makes sense as otherwise the exiles could easily split into countless warring cults.

Of course the sorceresses of the exiles could bargain with daemons but always with the (arrogant) intent on coming on top. While the mortal followers might aspire to become a daemon prince, the exiled sorceress probably has other ideas in mind. In pursuit of those it's more likely she'll get obliterated rather than converted, but with certain pacts I'd think there's probably a way of how a chaos daemon/god could press her into service, should it suits it. 

Of course there is a place for CoS and other cults of chaos in AoS. With the cities coming back to existence it's once again time for subterfuge and with the elven dieties gone, daemons of Slaanesh can have a ball in how to push the self indulgence over the edge.  The motive here isn't elevation but rather pushing those souls into ignorant self destructing cycle, probably something shared with majority of human followers.

7 hours ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

Yeah I don't think we can make any definitive statements about Slaanesh until they publish something that lets us know where he fits into the Mortal Realms.

There haven't been any definite statements as far I can tell, only a decent flow of exchanging thoughts.

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7 hours ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

 

I would love to see poison weapons become a big feature of the army's weaponry - so the whole shift to snakes and stuff in the aesthetic is encouraging from this respec

Oh, this a great idea!  I really hope you’re right.  Poison was such a fun ability in The World That Was.  I would love to see them bring that back with DoK.

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22 hours ago, Richelieu said:

I've been thinking along these same lines.  Maybe something like, "At the end of the combat phase roll a d6 for each successful wound roll.  On a 5+ the unit suffers a mortal wound."  That way the enemy unit would still get its chance to fight while the poison worked its way through their bodies.

 

Have to disagree.  I do think it is a step back from Nurgle, but there's a lot of potential to unlock and I think it eclipses Sylvaneth fairly substantially.  The lore spells are superb, the artifacts have 2 or more viable options per allegiance and the allegiance abilities are mostly useful.  Arkhan really shines and i think there's an at least semi-competitive Nagash list waiting to be built.   The ability to ambush with Terrorgheists in the Legion of Night could be extremely powerful and death players will be rewarded handsomely for good gravesite tactics. 

I certainly hope that the DoK book is on par with the Nurgle book, but I won't be terribly disappointed if it is only as good as the LoN book.

Pre-GHB2017 Sylvaneth were fantastic. The things you could do with the battalions were crazy.

The lore spells of LoN are 50/50 things like orb/grasp/fading are top notch. Blades of Shyish might as well not even exist, the other ones weren't even worth remembering.

The book is actually really really similar to preghb sylvaneth, just with less battalions. So I'll correct it, it's better than post GHB sylvaneth but still worse than preghb sylvaneth.

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On 07/02/2018 at 4:33 AM, Twitch of Izalith said:

For an all comers list?

I would definitely go 30 witch aelves. The sisters are a bit more of a choice. The big block gets value from a mystic shield but you need to protect it from battleshock and you can't fit the whole thing in many terrain pieces for the +1 to save and its expensive in a small list. Maybe try 20?

10's tend to get destroyed quite quickly if they are getting shot but its not such a big points loss and you have more units to cap objectives in the battleplans where there are lots of them. 10 in cover with a mystic shield will have a 2+ save in combat that spits back mortal wounds on a 4+.  You can also use them as suicide blockers against your opponents powerful units.

A sorceress is a really useful ally even at 1000 points games. It helps to have 2 casters so you can have a choice of maxing offensive or defensive spells or casting one of each.

Looking ahead to the new book I think at least one big unit of Witch Aelves will remain a solid choice (unless you prefer dryads of course :P) but SoS may either become really good or get overshadowed by the new units so it may be safer to hold off building too many until we know.

 


Cheeers! yeah thinking that now! I'll be doing 20 Sisters of Slaughter for sure currently building them as we speak!

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Aelf lore from Legion of Nagash: 

"As the world-that-was tore itself apart, countless mortal lives were snuffed out in an instant. Tormented, lost souls drifted through the aether, and were claimed by dark powers that reached forth hungrily from the Realm of Chaos. No deity indulged themselves so thoroughly as Slaanesh, the god of excess. Te Dark Prince devoured so many aelf-souls that he grew bloated and sluggish, and was forced to take shelter lest his fellow gods took advantage of his weakened state to gain ground in the great game of dominance and intrigue that defined their every action.

It was Malerion and Tyrion, the gods of aelf-kind, who discovered Slaanesh and lured him into captivity. Desperate to restore their ailing race, they began to extract as many souls as they could from the helpless Chaos God. They performed this task in secret, in a distant sub-realm hidden from prying eyes, yet Nagash – connected to all things of the spirit realm – could feel a great bounty slipping from his fingers, torn away by some unknown entity. His agents ventured far and wide in search of those responsible, yet Malerion and Tyrion had covered their tracks expertly.

Perhaps the culprits may have remained entirely unknown, were it not for the subterfuge of Morathi – mother of Malerion and Queen of the Shadow Realm. Morathi purported to aid her son and Tyrion in their endeavour, all the while secretly stealing a surplus bounty of aelf spirits away to Ulgu for her own sinister purposes. Malerion and Tyrion’s careful plans had not accounted for Morathi’s parasitic magic, masked behind spells of obfuscation and misdirection. Though Nagash still could not pinpoint Slaanesh’s exact location, this torrent of stolen souls drew his eye to the aelven gods’ duplicity."

 

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47 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Thanks that's really interesting but there isn't much there :( I can't wait for DoK lore as we will or sure get more info about Tyrion, Teclis, Malerion and Morathi. Dynamic between Morathi and those 3 will be very interesting. 

It would be an interesting family reunion :)

but any info on what the Aelves have been up to would be welcome.

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19 hours ago, Tiger said:

What I find interesting is that the text doesn't mention Teclis...

13 hours ago, DantePQ said:

Maybe because Teclis isn't a God. 

Teclis is a god. Tyrion sees through his eyes. They're a kind of symbotic pairing. My assumption is that saying "Tyrion" is just short-hand for talking about both of them.

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12 minutes ago, zedatkinszed said:

 

Teclis is a god. Tyrion sees through his eyes. They're a kind of symbotic pairing. My assumption is that saying "Tyrion" is just short-hand for talking about both of them.

It could mean that Teclis wasn't involved in the kidnapping or the soul extracting, and isn't hiding away but is still in the Realm of Light.

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26 minutes ago, zedatkinszed said:

 

Teclis is a god. Tyrion sees through his eyes. They're a kind of symbotic pairing. My assumption is that saying "Tyrion" is just short-hand for talking about both of them.

I doubt it. It is said that they search for Aelves together as Teclis is Tyrion's eyes. Don't know why he isn't mentioned. 

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I'm still not certain what Teclis is. GW likes to use "twins share a soul" trope when it comes to elves. In essence both beings are individual, yet still linked in spirit, when one departs the other feels void.  I suppose when Tyrion ascended he could have empowered his brother as well.

I find it interesting because I can't recall when they're not mentioned together.

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On 2/8/2018 at 6:30 PM, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

I hoping we can use the cauldron of bloods khaine statue as an avatar of khaine for the daughters. And he gets stronger the more murder that happens!

 

I hope so, in the process of magnetizing mine :) 

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On 11-2-2018 at 11:14 AM, BrownDog said:

Aelf lore from Legion of Nagash: 

"As the world-that-was tore itself apart, countless mortal lives were snuffed out in an instant. Tormented, lost souls drifted through the aether, and were claimed by dark powers that reached forth hungrily from the Realm of Chaos. No deity indulged themselves so thoroughly as Slaanesh, the god of excess. Te Dark Prince devoured so many aelf-souls that he grew bloated and sluggish, and was forced to take shelter lest his fellow gods took advantage of his weakened state to gain ground in the great game of dominance and intrigue that defined their every action.

It was Malerion and Tyrion, the gods of aelf-kind, who discovered Slaanesh and lured him into captivity. Desperate to restore their ailing race, they began to extract as many souls as they could from the helpless Chaos God. They performed this task in secret, in a distant sub-realm hidden from prying eyes, yet Nagash – connected to all things of the spirit realm – could feel a great bounty slipping from his fingers, torn away by some unknown entity. His agents ventured far and wide in search of those responsible, yet Malerion and Tyrion had covered their tracks expertly.

Perhaps the culprits may have remained entirely unknown, were it not for the subterfuge of Morathi – mother of Malerion and Queen of the Shadow Realm. Morathi purported to aid her son and Tyrion in their endeavour, all the while secretly stealing a surplus bounty of aelf spirits away to Ulgu for her own sinister purposes. Malerion and Tyrion’s careful plans had not accounted for Morathi’s parasitic magic, masked behind spells of obfuscation and misdirection. Though Nagash still could not pinpoint Slaanesh’s exact location, this torrent of stolen souls drew his eye to the aelven gods’ duplicity."

 

Doesn't sound like Morathi is very Orderly.

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