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Payce

Let's chat: Daughters of Khaine

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@Burf

I've only played DoK in Skirmish as I'm Sylvaneth player, I just studied warscrolls and don't see those 3++,4++ could you enlighten me who you do that with DoK ?

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25 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

@Burf

I've only played DoK in Skirmish as I'm Sylvaneth player, I just studied warscrolls and don't see those 3++,4++ could you enlighten me who you do that with DoK ?

Right now stack as many blood shields as you can... Which isn't that difficult. Playing 3 cauldrons is pretty expensive but it is what makes the army competitive at the moment. As for whitches, they have a lot of damage potential, they just need their buffs activated. And SoS are brutal against CC armies, though it is true they suck against shooting.

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Issue with multi cauldrons though is getting objectives as you don't get much movement with keeping in 9" of all of them and as they take damage the range will decrease.

 

It will be nice to see if the new battletome gives them ways to be competetive without the awkward and gimmicky multi cauldron necessity.

 

Someone commented about a page or two back how they find DoK competetively.

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On 1/27/2018 at 12:38 AM, Payce said:

Well, this changes everything.

Here I was, ready to finally ditch my Elves for good, give into destro and never look back. And from out of nowhere, they do this to me. GW, you crazy, beautiful bastardo. Let me kiss you.

Plog imminent. I got 20 Witches from my druchii stuck in the paint stripper as we speak, another 20 on sprue, ten warlocks, two Cauldrons and two Medusae. Let's see if we can get it all done before the book releases, shall we?

It. Is. On.

Oh i'll race you for this! For me it's a bit less but I have to wait for the order to arrive, Blood coven box ( ill be building the Couldron & converting a Shrine for the Medusa) + 20 witches. I just love this release, the first one with new models i can't wait for. Really like things like the Kahadron Overlords but somehow never pulled the trigger. Can't effing wait. 

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1 hour ago, Lightbox said:

Issue with multi cauldrons though is getting objectives as you don't get much movement with keeping in 9" of all of them and as they take damage the range will decrease.

 

It will be nice to see if the new battletome gives them ways to be competetive without the awkward and gimmicky multi cauldron necessity.

 

Someone commented about a page or two back how they find DoK competetively.

Yep I did, as I am almost exclusively tournament and competitive play Sylvaneth player and I've waited for Aelves since I started playing AoS during GH2016 time as I've been high elves tournament player since 5th edtion of WFB. 

As you look at current meta and how game works you got to have : mobility, mortal damage output or a lot of bodies. That's why armies like Sylvaneth or BCR fell out of the meta. 

That's why I would love to have some mechanics (like mortal wounds on 6 for Witches and -1rend for SoS) I think a mix of some big units of Aelven Witches/SoS mixed with new elite units to dish out mortal wounds, magic should work for DoK. 

Cauldron gimmick seems fine but as you said then army isn't very mobile and it's all about securing objectives. I guess DoK should get some cool allegiance rule maybe some kind of Ynnari soulburst as it would fit them perfectly and could easily be kept in check without being abusive. I am huge fun of Soulburst beacuse it forces you and your opponent to a lot of thinking and planning (I got it that it's abusive with Dark Reapers but DR are a problem not Soulburst after recent FAQ)

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Time to get those extra Cauldron's on ebay boys and girls! or convert them into bloodwrack shrines. FAQ dropped today:

Q: If a Daughters of Khaine unit is within range of the Blood Shield ability from two or more Cauldrons of Blood, does it get a save for each one?

A: No, it only receives one Blood Shield save.

Now the main hope for the new book is that they update it to a 4+ or extend the range.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/age_of_sigmar_order_en-1.pdf 

Edited by Twitch of Izalith
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7 minutes ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

Time to get those extra Cauldron's on ebay boys and girls! or convert them into bloodwrack shrines. FAQ dropped today:

Q: If a Daughters of Khaine unit is within range of the Blood Shield ability from two or more Cauldrons of Blood, does it get a save for each one?

A: No, it only receives one Blood Shield save.

Now the main hope for the new book is that they update it to a 4+ or extend the range.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/age_of_sigmar_order_en-1.pdf 

Can't say it comes as a surprise. As mentioned hopefully they'll get a buff for the new book.

I've got three new on sprue at the moment, think I'm going to build one Cauldron and one Shrine and then wait for the book before choosing what to do with the last.

First on the cards is building 30 out of the 60 Witches this week and crack on with painting them.

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From a design point of view, this change had to happen. It's terrible game mechanics to have that sort of overlap, even if in this particular instance it was the one thing keeping the current iterarion of the army afloat.

We can only hope this is a sign of change to come regarding the Cauldron. As it stands, it's woefully lacking and synergises badly with the one unit you take it to boost. I think wanting a 4+ Blood Shield is wishful thinking, but a 5+ that affect all DoK units is definitely something that could work.

Regardless, until I have the book, I'll just paint battleline. Seems the best option for now, until we know more.

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Yep i agree. The change had to happen. Anything that adds stackable rolls should be gone, mostly because how disruptive it is to the flow of the game. Balance should be brought through different means imo.

Edit - By the way, where did you find that FAQ ? It isn't up on the website yet =/

Edit 2 - Nvm, found it https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/

Edited by Keldaur

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13 minutes ago, Payce said:

From a design point of view, this change had to happen. It's terrible game mechanics to have that sort of overlap, even if in this particular instance it was the one thing keeping the current iterarion of the army afloat.

We can only hope this is a sign of change to come regarding the Cauldron. As it stands, it's woefully lacking and synergises badly with the one unit you take it to boost. I think wanting a 4+ Blood Shield is wishful thinking, but a 5+ that affect all DoK units is definitely something that could work.

Regardless, until I have the book, I'll just paint battleline. Seems the best option for now, until we know more.

I agree, luckily the allegiance abilities in the last 6 or so battle tomes have really been army defining, so hopefully that trend continues with DoK.  GW also was willing to update all the Nurgle warscrolls as needed, so hopefully we get the same treatment for DoK.

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Good thing I've not built my 2 cauldrons yet. Time for cauldron and a shrine!

 

It's gonna be really hard waiting for the release xD plenty of time to build and paint witches I suppose. Which reminds me I need to get at least one finished to update project skullgirls... Or just post WIP's... But I think the blog is better for wip

 

Anyway I'm hoping to either see a big focus on alpha strikes and damage or gain a bit more resilience in the new tome. Glass cannons are fine as long as we get tge cannon bit. Hopefully the snake ladies will be tougher.

 

Armywide 5++ from cauldrons would be lovely. Maybe a radius increase since they are 200 points and supposed to be support heroes.

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You know there is number of ways to make units resilient like negative to hit and wound modifiers etc 

I am glad that they changed cauldron rule as I hope GW will rewrite all the warscrolls to accommodate new allegiance ability. 

Edited by DantePQ
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I have one box of witches and one cauldron kit as yet unbuilt - I can't bring myself to do anything with them until I know how the army will work. I'm fairly sure that my current 2 cauldrons and one shrine is probably going to be enough! But sisters of slaughter may be a bigger thing in the army so I'm holding off before I build the last witch box

I'm really interested to get some more info on the upcoming kits too. I'm guessing the Medusa units will be 3's and the harpy's 5's min unit size?

Probably going to need at least 4 boxes of each + Morathi.

@DantePQ Agree with you on that. It would be much more interesting if they build the resilience in more interesting ways than just saving throws. 

@Lightbox I'm hoping for more movement. Move 7" seemed amazing in the early days but now everything seems to have a means of moving without using their movement stat it doesn't hold up. Hopefully harpies can drop out of the sky on things and there will be prayers for run & charge and other movement buffs.

Spells + move mechanics + some new units and an amazing general will be more than enough for me. I don't really mind if the army isn't top tier competitive as long as it has some options for different builds that will hold up against the rest of the factions. 

I do hope Morathi gets some nuclear spells though - It was so painful getting a Purple Sun or Black horror in the face playing WFB - I want to have a go with some weapons of mass destruction. that would be a great name for a spell actually...

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4 minutes ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

I have one box of witches and one cauldron kit as yet unbuilt - I can't bring myself to do anything with them until I know how the army will work. I'm fairly sure that my current 2 cauldrons and one shrine is probably going to be enough! But sisters of slaughter may be a bigger thing in the army so I'm holding off before I build the last witch box

I'm really interested to get some more info on the upcoming kits too. I'm guessing the Medusa units will be 3's and the harpy's 5's min unit size?

Probably going to need at least 4 boxes of each + Morathi.

@DantePQ Agree with you on that. It would be much more interesting if they build the resilience in more interesting ways than just saving throws. 

@Lightbox I'm hoping for more movement. Move 7" seemed amazing in the early days but now everything seems to have a means of moving without using their movement stat it doesn't hold up. Hopefully harpies can drop out of the sky on things and there will be prayers for run & charge and other movement buffs.

Spells + move mechanics + some new units and an amazing general will be more than enough for me. I don't really mind if the army isn't top tier competitive as long as it has some options for different builds that will hold up against the rest of the factions. 

I do hope Morathi gets some nuclear spells though - It was so painful getting a Purple Sun or Black horror in the face playing WFB - I want to have a go with some weapons of mass destruction. that would be a great name for a spell actually...

More movement could be cool. I'd quite like to see witchbrew's affect more than just plain ol' witches now we're getting a much more expanded faction. That would give us some really nice tactics having these once per game buff items and deciding which units to drop them on to.

 

And considering she's supposed to be some renowned sorceress turned demigod I'd very much like to see Morathi have some powerful spells, especially in elf form. Snake form could focus more on kicking butt in melee... or maybe she'll be a big magical monster like the lord of change. Or have a really big bow like one of the medusa elf variants.

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@Twitch of Izalith

I agree that we need several things, I would DoK to be army combining big units of Witches and SoS comboed with elite units(Gorgons,Harpies). 

I won't count on Purple Sun or Black Horror though. Unless DoK will introduce two magic lores (which is kind of possible) I think our lore will be more Shadow Magic then Dark Magic (as it's mentioned on WH Community post) so I guess it will be more about negative buffs,extra protection, extra moves etc as those Magic Lores are clearly inspired by older spells/lores. But it could be mix of two. And those effects are really what I imagine DoK will need but for it to work I hope we will have access to several spellcasters (Morathi, Doomfire Warlocks and hero level spellcaster - fingers crossed) 

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I wonder if they will change up the doomfires at all. The spell is potentially good but I have had a couple of games where It didn't go off a single time and you can always roll that 1 for damage.

They are still a really succesfull unit for me though so I always run a couple of units despite the damage output being unreliable. 

59 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

I won't count on Purple Sun or Black Horror though. Unless DoK will introduce two magic lores (which is kind of possible) I think our lore will be more Shadow Magic then Dark Magic (as it's mentioned on WH Community post) so I guess it will be more about negative buffs,extra protection, extra moves etc as those Magic Lores are clearly inspired by older spells/lores. But it could be mix of two

Thats a thought. I just assumed dark magic because Doombolt is a old dark magic spell. In fact all the spells used by any of the dark elf factions have been dark magic previously - Including chillwind (compendium sorceress on drakespawn) and Roiling Blackness (compendium morathi/sorceress on dark pegasus) although that was renamed from Arnazipals Black Horror and is no way near as good as ABH used to be.

2 or more spell lores would be amazing, I hadn't thought about that until you mentioned it either. One of the things I miss is being able to back up different army builds and tactics with different magic lores. But if DoK gets Shadow what does Malerion's faction get? He is literally the avatar of that wind of magic? I spose they can both have it...

I wonder if we get expanded prayers for the death hags / cauldron? I guess that + dark magic spell lore would be my wish list result.

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I guess they could go few ways :

- Magic Lore + Prayers 

- 2 Magic Lores (for example Morathi in small form and Warlocks/Sorceresses use one and Morathi in snake form and Gorgon Sorceress use another of course if he get those characeters)

- They could share a Lore with Malerion or there could be two lores based on Shadow theme. 

I also would like Dark Magic/Shadow Magic/Blood Magic lore + prayers best. As it would be great boost for Hags and Cauldrons. 

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6 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

for example Morathi in small form and Warlocks/Sorceresses use one and Morathi in snake form and Gorgon Sorceress use another of course if he get those characeters

DoK's very own little waagh, big waagh spell list!

Really interested to see if her going super saiyan gives her greater magic ability, or greater combat.
Also interested to see if she'll be the same price as Alarielle...  

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Changing her spells could be ultra cool especially if player controlling her can trigger form change and it isn't random (for example after losing x wounds)

I hope she isn't that expensive as Alarielle as she would be shot to pieces really quickly. I am tournament heavy player and Alarielle Dreadwood is my go to list and she is dead in majority of battles even though she has 16W and great healing abilities. Unless she has really cool negative to hit/wound abilities.  

 

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I'm hoping to do a thread based around my journey with the DoK as I've always wanted to do one, so excited for the new book to experiment and report back!

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I think DoK should get much more mobility than right now, as cauldrons prevented us from moving that much before, but now that they're gone we should benefit more from our speed, and both nagas and harpies should be pretty fast. 

Also I hope we get access to black magic, not shadow magic, as it is a much cooler concept and fits our theme much better. And the community article didn't say anything about shadows as far as I can remember, and it doesn't look like they're going that route from the models we've seen. 

And hope we don't get a pure combat big monster, but rather something more special and gimmicky, it's an elf faction after all! :P

 

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It was mentioned that Morathi escaped Slaanesh thanks to the powerful shadow magic so the logical conclusion is that Morathi uses Shadow Magic. 

Here is original text from AoS Facebook :

"Morathi has returned to the Mortal Realms at the head of the Daughters of Khaine - twisted by the depredations of Slaanesh and made whole again through the mastery of shadow magic. Aelves are back - and as you've never seen them before. Find out more with our full-length preview"

So I guess it's kind of granted that we will get Shadow Magic we still don't know anything about lore so maybe it makes sense or maybe we will get both Shadow and Dark Magic. 

Edited by DantePQ
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2 hours ago, The Traitor said:

I think DoK should get much more mobility than right now, as cauldrons prevented us from moving that much before, but now that they're gone we should benefit more from our speed, and both nagas and harpies should be pretty fast.

 

Let's not get TOO ahead of ourselves here. Current version of Cauldron is nerfed, I'd say it's slightly premature calling it "gone" just yet. If Nurgle and Nagash is anything to go by, they're not unwilling to majorly redesign individual warscrolls, so I'm definitely waiting for the book before I pass judgment. I would be very surpised if they make the Cauldron useless from the get-go, considering they want to sell Coven boxes.

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Agreed I think that both Cauldrons will get major rules overhaul. 

Edited by DantePQ

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