Let's chat: Daughters of Khaine

[Payce]

Aloha!

With GHB2 on the horizon and Daughters of Khaine having been confirmed to have allegiance abilities, it suggests they aren't getting any love anytime soon, or that they likely won't be involved in the new Aelves release whenever that is. So let's instead try to look at what we have, and see where we can go with it. I have a metric ducktonne of various DoK-models from my old Dark Elves that I look to put to use, and with this book, it might just be the reason we need to pick up our old girls.

Unit by unit, we're still pretty limited, though we're ahrdly worse off than for example the Ironjawz. Let's look at what we currently have;

Cauldron of Blood: Offers Bloodshield and a very strong command ability, but suffers from having to choose between combat prowess and Witchbrew. A decent buff machine at a very reasonable price, and very powerful in that it has monster stats but not the monster keyword.
Death Hags: Extremely cost-efficient, and offers the possibility of creating large areas of increased bravery for units with banners. The potentian for multiple Witchbrews allows your cauldrons to take the sword option. One of your very few sources of mortal wounds with her prayers.
Witch Aelves: Your bread and butter. Units of 30 of these have a buffer for casualties before combat, and the amount of potential buffs and rerolls make the sheer amount of saves you're able to force intimidating. Look out for a points decrease in GHB2 if skirmish values are anything to go by,
Bloodwrack Shrine/Medusae: You give up a bit of speed for 8 extra wounds when you take the shrine compared to the singular Medusae. At only 20 points extra (currently), the added survivability and damage potential (through crew and Aura of Agony) of the shrine is a no-brainer unless you really need the extra few inches in the early game. Another source of mortal wounds.
Sisters of Slaughter: Significantly more expensive than the Witches, but perform a largely different role. With their added defence and mortal wound retaliation, these girls are perfect elite hunters to go up against enemy heavy infantry.
Doomfire Warlocks: Your primary and most reliable source of mortal wounds, and the best objective claimer you have. They don't get a banner, however, and is very susceptible to battleshock.

Bloodwrack Sisterhood (battallion): It's cheap, and it offers a potential Kunnin Rukk effect... but it's also extremely situational, and sadly only allows a single Death Hag to be taken, making it far less valuable as a one-drop. The plus side is that it affects all your units, as DoK is not an MSU army and you rarely use more than six units. Worth it, but far from mandatory.

Potential allies: Executioners are an obvious choice, adding armour and reliable mortal wounds to the army, as well as the lore connection between them and the Witches in the old world. An Archmage offers an added layer of protection, similar to Death's current allegiance ability. Shadow Warriors offers a ranged threat, as well as an option for screens and early charges to allow your girls safer passage. A Celestial Hurricanum provides target saturation for the Cauldron and Shrine, as well as a potential ranged threat and buffs to the girls. A Durthu is just flat out a monster, that demands attention and will keep a lot of damage off your girls.

Strenghts: Fast, massive numbers, solid bravery, can output insane amounts of damage, large models without monster keyword.
Weaknesses: Dies fast and easy, damage output considerably lowered when losing buffs, no significant ranged threat, lack of mortal wounds, bad combat heroes.

Overall verdict: DoK are currently in a really bad state, and until we see the new rules, they're not even remotely competitive. With certain points adjustments, however, and allegiance abilities that cover some of the weaknesses, rather than enhance the strengths, I think they can be an interesting choice for a mid-tier army, giving some much needed love back to the druchii. I for one am massively excited to see where they end up, and if they are viable enough to invest time in re-basing and re-building my old models into a coherent new AoS force.

So, what would we like to see for the DoK? Which abilities, which units getting points adjusted? Discuss.

[someone2040]

8 hours ago, Payce said:

With GHB2 on the horizon and Daughters of Khaine having been confirmed to have allegiance abilities, 

I think you've got your Dark Aelves confused. The Darkling Covens are getting Allegiance Abilities, not the Daughters of Khaine.

To me, this could be a good or a bad thing. It's a good thing in that, I'd argue that perhaps the Daughters might see some battletome attention in the future. Bad in the fact, that may not happen and for the mean time you're lumped with generic Order allegiance abilities which aren't as fun nor interesting.

[Payce]

8 hours ago, someone2040 said:

I think you've got your Dark Aelves confused. The Darkling Covens are getting Allegiance Abilities, not the Daughters of Khaine.

Curses, you are of course completely correct. I was fooled and got my mind in a twist by the following quote from the Matched Play-preview;

"There are loads more ‘Battleline-if’** units for matched play armies, allowing for some unusual new lists. We’ll be looking more closely at these in our Grand Alliance previews, but there are some that really stand out. For example, the bloodthirsty Daughters of Khaine can now fill out their Battleline slots with Doomfire Warlocks and/or Sisters of Slaughter."

Alas, I don't think the lack of allegiance means anything much, apart from a continued existence in the shadow. Regardless, these girls deserve som attention, if not from GW then from TGA!

[someone2040]

My gut feeling is that some of the more interesting factions will likely see some attention in the next year, hopefully in the form of a battletome, but perhaps just in GHB2018.

Especially the more unique and interesting races such as Daughters of Khaine could easily be gifted with a battletome. They don't really have that many less units than Ironjawz for example, so if they were given a few kits could easily be within proper faction territory.

 

Ultimately though, even if they weren't, I'd say they're a good candidate for getting allegiance abilities in GHB2018. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ironjawz and Fyreslayers get some new kits in the next year along with a new battletome to get them 'up to speed' with the latest stuff, similar releases to what Stormcast Vanguard chamber bought. Or perhaps some of the other races that get allegiance abilities get a full battletome (Something I'm a little surprised didn't happen with the Wanderers). Either way, I think some space will likely free up for some new allegiance abilities in the next GHB.

[Siegfried VII]

I still hope that the Daughters of Khaine will be feratured in the next aelves release, Aesthetically they fit Age of Sigmar in my opinion as they lack the almost monopose grounded units of the WFB and if you notice carefully they share aesthetics with both the Mistweaver Saih and the Tenabrae Shard so fingers crossed they'll get their chance to shine in the near future.

If not I believe that a points reduction almost across the board is in order or else they won't be able to stand toe to toe with other Order unit...

[Dead_Ghost]

Seems that daughters are getting a little love with the new handbook.

They're getting a mixed box called 'daughters of khaine - blood coven' with a unit of witch elves/sisters and a shrine/cauldron.

Hopefully this will come in at £50 like some of the other boxes of this sort.

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[Dead_Ghost]

Also, anyone with access to the past games on twitch - there was a match with daughters the other day.

Good demonstration of some of the armies synergies in action.

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[The Golem]

28 minutes ago, Dead_Ghost said:

Seems that daughters are getting a little love with the new handbook.

They're getting a mixed box called 'daughters of khaine - blood coven' with a unit of witch elves/sisters and a shrine/cauldron.

Hopefully this will come in at £50 like some of the other boxes of this sort.

There's something funny: this set will normally contain 13 miniatures (and not 12 as written on the package). They forgot the Death Hag with two weapons (previously Hellebron) who is also included in the Cauldron of Blood kit.

[Dead_Ghost]

They forgot the Death Hag with two weapons (previously Hellebron) who is also included in the Cauldron of Blood kit.

Ah, knew there was something I couldn't put my finger on with the number of models.

They're showing the shrine on the box so maybe it's 'technically correct' if you build it as shown. But in reality it's 13.

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[Percivael]

And why not chuck in a base for the Medusa on foot (or tail) too? 

I love the idea of a Daughters of Khaine army - fantastic models, good variety of units and some decent in game potential.

They even offer opportunities for kitbash creativity with mixing in some Dark Eldar Wych heads for added variety. 

This new box set has certainly got me thinking of them as a side project.

[Kramer]

5 hours ago, Percivael said:

And why not chuck in a base for the Medusa on foot (or tail) too? 

I love the idea of a Daughters of Khaine army - fantastic models, good variety of units and some decent in game potential.

They even offer opportunities for kitbash creativity with mixing in some Dark Eldar Wych heads for added variety. 

This new box set has certainly got me thinking of them as a side project.

If they just put in the complete couldron set you can build it as a couldron and the medusa on foot. It's currently the only way to get it anyway I think. 

[Percivael]

 

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

If they just put in the complete couldron set you can build it as a couldron and the medusa on foot. It's currently the only way to get it anyway I think. 

That's right. I just wonder if they will include a 40mm base for that purpose. Potentially it can make 13 miniatures then - One Cauldron, one additional Death Hag, 10 Witch Aelves and one Bloodwrack Medusa.

[Kramer]

If i'm the first to buy it I'll report back  

[Dead_Ghost]

If i'm the first to buy it I'll report back [emoji6] 

[emoji24] In a true first world problem, I'll be on holiday so can't pick up the new toys.

I guess if I was a true wargamer, I'd find a GW near me!

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[Percivael]

I don't know what it is about these box set bundles, but they just give these smaller factions a stronger identity, ergo making them cooler and even more desirable!

[hellalugosi]

im really hoping for a battletome down the line. i see it as a no brainer that shard is going to be a daughters of khaine hero, i was even thinking that how they painted him for the silver tower was to throw us off the DoK trail! they could use him as he definitely adds some hero killing oppurtunities that the daughters dont have. im really hoping the order grand alliance traits and artefacts can bring us some good stuff for a death hag or cauldron can run with.

 

 

[Dead_Ghost]

So it seems that the new box will be retailing at £60 - so £20 saving over buying individually.

 

Buy it from third party then for £48-£51 which isn't so shabby.

 

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[Dead_Ghost]

So what constitutes a reasonable 1k list for folks here?

Following list seems to come out at an even 1,000 points;

• Cauldron of Blood
• Death Hag
• 20 Witch Aelves
• 20 Witch Aelves
• Bloodwrack Medusa
• Bloodwrack Sisterhood battalion

Is the battalion worth taking at this level, with just the two big blocks best poised to make use of it? 

Any way to wrangle a unit of Doomfire Warlocks in a 1k?

[Payce]

15 hours ago, Dead_Ghost said:

So what constitutes a reasonable 1k list for folks here?

Following list seems to come out at an even 1,000 points;

• Cauldron of Blood
• Death Hag
• 20 Witch Aelves
• 20 Witch Aelves
• Bloodwrack Medusa
• Bloodwrack Sisterhood battalion

Is the battalion worth taking at this level, with just the two big blocks best poised to make use of it? 

Any way to wrangle a unit of Doomfire Warlocks in a 1k?

You have too few units to actually take the batallion - it requires you to have three to six core units. I'd ditch it and upgrade the Medusae to a Shrine.

[hellalugosi]

this is a goofy 1k list ive been thinking of, im banking on the either the doomfires or the medusae getting a point drop for this to work.

1 cauldron of blood with witchbrew (general)

1 death hag with deathsword

1 unit of 5 doomfire warlocks

1 unit of 10 sisters of slaughter

1 unit of 20 witch aelves

1 bloodwrack medusae

this comes in at 1040 pts, but again im hoping unit price will drop! 

[Dead_Ghost]

5 hours ago, Payce said:

You have too few units to actually take the batallion

Ah damn, you're not wrong there! 

Shrine makes some sense, actually quite impressive what you get for that extra 20 points. Guess it's two of the new boxes then 

[Payce]

5 hours ago, hellalugosi said:

this is a goofy 1k list ive been thinking of, im banking on the either the doomfires or the medusae getting a point drop for this to work.

1 cauldron of blood with witchbrew (general)

1 death hag with deathsword

1 unit of 5 doomfire warlocks

1 unit of 10 sisters of slaughter

1 unit of 20 witch aelves

1 bloodwrack medusae

this comes in at 1040 pts, but again im hoping unit price will drop! 

I'm fairly confident we'll see a price drop of Witch Aelves to either 100 or 120 per ten. If it's actually down to 100, it leaves you 40 points left over (unless something else takes an increase) for the batallion. I also suspect there will be a change to the Medusae in some way, though I suspect it's more likely a rise to the Shrine than a drop in the single Medusae. I'd honestly be OK if they did both, Medusae to 100 and Shrine to 180 would make sense.

[hellalugosi]

1 hour ago, Payce said:

I'm fairly confident we'll see a price drop of Witch Aelves to either 100 or 120 per ten. If it's actually down to 100, it leaves you 40 points left over (unless something else takes an increase) for the batallion. I also suspect there will be a change to the Medusae in some way, though I suspect it's more likely a rise to the Shrine than a drop in the single Medusae. I'd honestly be OK if they did both, Medusae to 100 and Shrine to 180 would make sense.

my big guess is doomfires going to 160 for 5 instead of 200. thats huge but something about them being battleline now really makes me consider that they want them to be used more.

id be so happy with medusae at 100. hell, id be happier if the medusae could get the ****** hero keyword in both forms ?

[Sennyo]

so random question: what faction do people see the daughters getting as allies, other than stormcast. i was really thinking that allies would help our lack of shooting range problem. the only other faction i could really see being allies would be the darkling coven and the shadowblades.

[Payce]

2 hours ago, Sennyo said:

so random question: what faction do people see the daughters getting as allies, other than stormcast. i was really thinking that allies would help our lack of shooting range problem. the only other faction i could really see being allies would be the darkling coven and the shadowblades.

There's several possibilities, as I suggested in the OP; Sylvaneth offers Kurnoth Hunters, Free People offer the Hurricanum, Shadow Warriors provied both a ranged threat and a screen. As an Ironjawz main, I'm not convinced ranged support is what we need the most, it's rather the opposite, target saturation and survival tools. Huge, cheap threats (like Durthu), massed infantry blocks or large cavalry for screens, the Aelven Archmage to provide a "ward save" bubble... there's a lot of possibilities. I think a lot comes down to the potential points reductions for our units, if Witches is sunk to 100 and warlocks to 160-180, it's going to massively change up how we approach our own unit sizes as well.