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Let's chat: Daughters of Khaine


Payce

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Well, this changes everything.

Here I was, ready to finally ditch my Elves for good, give into destro and never look back. And from out of nowhere, they do this to me. GW, you crazy, beautiful bastardo. Let me kiss you.

Plog imminent. I got 20 Witches from my druchii stuck in the paint stripper as we speak, another 20 on sprue, ten warlocks, two Cauldrons and two Medusae. Let's see if we can get it all done before the book releases, shall we?

It. Is. On.

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Need to get my bits painted up and 2 cauldrons built whilst I wait tbh.

 

Might try and pick up some warlocks and more witches when I next get paid :D

 

My friends seem interested in the harpies but I'm likely to ignore them to begin with in favour of the medusa units... Those new snake ladies look amazing!!

 

Can't wait till we get to see the warscrolls.

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I just decided to jump on the Nurgle bandwagon for 2018 and they go and drop this!

Dark Elves were easily my favorite army/faction from the old warhammer world, and also the only army I was never able to part with. Ive built, painted, and sold multiple other armies in the mean time. Best part? Witch elves and cold ones were easily my favorite aspects of the old Dark Elves and now I get to have an entire army of them!

I am very much looking forward to this release

As of this post Ive got 30 Witch elves, 2 cauldrons (2 Medusa), and 20 Warlocks still in need of paint and round bases.

Lets see if i can get any of them done along with my Nurgle before the Battletomb drops

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As I am competitive player and got bored a little bit playing with Sylvaneth since GH2016 I'm surely going to play Daughters of Khaine when they're released. 

Speaking of comeptitive play there are number of issues DoK must solve to be give DoT, KO, Fyreslayers good fight. 

Battleline units - judging by GH2017 DoK Battlelines are:

- Witch Elves

- Sisters of Slaughter 

- Doomfire Warlocks 

If it stays this way that's quite cool are Doomfire Warlocks could nicely fill out this slot(especially if the can use new magic lore), one big unit of 30 will be needed as well to caputre objectives, screening and to use as chaf. But at this moment both aren't very good - not many attacks, no rend, little to none protection, little to none mortal wounds output. I guess they should have more attacks(Witches) or rend (Sisters). They die to easily. That's why somekind of -1 to hit ability (even if it's against shooting only) would be extra handy. Right know Dryads (and they are not the best battleline in the game anyway) are much better then both Sisters and Witches.  They other way is further point redutcion but that would push them too much into horde direction and I don't see them outfighting Murderhost or Fyreslayers. 

Leaders :

Death Hag - I would love her to be stronger with some kind of better aura ability, right know she's quite cheap but very fragile. 

Shrines : 

they are quite nice but very situatnional, also their abilities didin't have good enough ranges and those get worse as they take wounds. 

What army needes to be cometitvie :

- more attacks output from infantry - Witch Elves always had huge number attacks right now they're average at best with no rend and 1 damage. 

- some kind of mortal wounds output (I'm sure some of them will came through new units or/and spells)

- better protection, I doubt we will get any bunker, but without extra protection DoK need mobility so far it's fairly slow army without any abilities to move faster M7 is nice but nothing spectacular especially with such a fragile army. Armywide negative to hit modfiers would be extra cool and in line with Shadows and DoK fluff.  I guess only Harpies will be hugely mobile.

- ranged weapons those are for sure coming maybe even Harpies with Javelin will be shooting unit. 

- with new Spell Lore I would love to have hero level Spellcaster (Harpy hero, Meduse hero, Sorceress, Mistweaver) or and rule that Sorcereses taken as allies from Darkling Covens coule cast spells from Shadow Lore - that would be extra fluffy rule. 

Considering how meta looks (with elite huge damage output armies  like DoT KO and huge horde armies - Murderhost, Fyreslayers) I could see DoK having both - quite usefull and good big blocks of infantry in improved Witches and Sisters back by awesome spellcasting and quite good damage output. 

 

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About to order a blood coven box and wanted to ask a few questions in advance. Are the Sisters of Slaughter a viable option? Of course I know I will need Witch Aelves as well, but I wanted to start with something simple and the masks look easier to paint then faces. Also which Death Hag is better on the couldron?

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Of course the new box might change everything up, but as it stands at present:

With Sisters you're mostly paying for the armour save gimmick, which is very funny when it works, but there are not really that many targets that it works that well against, this is said as someone who ran a 30-block of Sisters of Slaughter in the GT finals, they're fine, certainly, but there are few occasions where I wouldn't have preferred 30 witch aleves in their place.  That said they are pretty handy as 10-model objective sitters/screens, so building up 10-20 of them wouldn't be a bad idea, though, again, new book on the horizon.

The Witchbrew is the better option for the Death Hag, the Cauldrons are not particularly hot in combat anyway and a couple of extra decent attacks isn't going to swing it most of the time.  As it stands at present I'd want to run one Witchbrew cauldron per unit of Wych Aelves I'm using, with any extra cauldrons free to take the sword just to mix things up a bit, buuuut again, new book. 

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Thank you for the response! That's exectly what I want to use the Sisters for, so I'll get a unit of 10 and depanding on the battletome I might get more in the future. I just want to get some models ready before the battletome release, so I can concentrate my attention to the new stuff. Thought about 1-2 Cauldrons, 10 Sisters, 30 Witch Aelves and 5 Warlocks.

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23 hours ago, Faedryd said:

Thank you for the response! That's exectly what I want to use the Sisters for, so I'll get a unit of 10 and depanding on the battletome I might get more in the future. I just want to get some models ready before the battletome release, so I can concentrate my attention to the new stuff. Thought about 1-2 Cauldrons, 10 Sisters, 30 Witch Aelves and 5 Warlocks.

Start small I would say, just get a box of witches or something for now, have fun painting them and practicing for the army, I really wouldn't invest too much until the book comes out as who knows what could change 

 

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Yep JonnyTheKing is right - one Blood Coven box should be enough for now maybe with another box of witches but I wouldn't invest so much without knowing as a lot of things could change and certain builds could be much better then other heck if doomfire warlocks are still Battleline maybe you won't need Witches at all (or huge numbers of them)

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3 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Yep JonnyTheKing is right - one Blood Coven box should be enough for now maybe with another box of witches but I wouldn't invest so much without knowing as a lot of things could change and certain builds could be much better then other heck if doomfire warlocks are still Battleline maybe you won't need Witches at all (or huge numbers of them)

My thoughts, I personally got 2 Blood Covens as I still have my Christmas bonus from work and i'm scared the box set disappears :P I think they're a safe purchase definitely, if some of the contents of the box becomes useless I'll use them for some conversions in my Dark Eldar :P 

But definitely don't do what i did and just stick to the one box!

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2 hours ago, JonnyTheKing said:

My thoughts, I personally got 2 Blood Covens as I still have my Christmas bonus from work and i'm scared the box set disappears :P I think they're a safe purchase definitely, if some of the contents of the box becomes useless I'll use them for some conversions in my Dark Eldar :P 

But definitely don't do what i did and just stick to the one box!

why would the box disappear?

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On 1/27/2018 at 8:11 AM, DantePQ said:

What army needes to be cometitvie :

- more attacks output from infantry - Witch Elves always had huge number attacks right now they're average at best with no rend and 1 damage. 

- some kind of mortal wounds output (I'm sure some of them will came through new units or/and spells)

- better protection, I doubt we will get any bunker, but without extra protection DoK need mobility so far it's fairly slow army without any abilities to move faster M7 is nice but nothing spectacular especially with such a fragile army. Armywide negative to hit modfiers would be extra cool and in line with Shadows and DoK fluff.  I guess only Harpies will be hugely mobile.

- ranged weapons those are for sure coming maybe even Harpies with Javelin will be shooting unit. 

- with new Spell Lore I would love to have hero level Spellcaster (Harpy hero, Meduse hero, Sorceress, Mistweaver) or and rule that Sorcereses taken as allies from Darkling Covens coule cast spells from Shadow Lore - that would be extra fluffy rule. 

Considering how meta looks (with elite huge damage output armies  like DoT KO and huge horde armies - Murderhost, Fyreslayers) I could see DoK having both - quite usefull and good big blocks of infantry in improved Witches and Sisters back by awesome spellcasting and quite good damage output. 

Ok so this thread is about to get a whole lot busier!! I will miss being one of the special  snowflakes with a DoK army... (not really :D)

I've actually managed to be reasonably competitive with this army as it is now - but I haven't taken it beyond my regular opponents so there are loads of lists I haven't played against. 

A unit of 30 witch elves is pretty good once you get all the buffs going but I would like to see them get poison attacks back for a mortal wound on a 6. The main problem is that the unit doesnt work at all in its own right - it needs heroes and a cauldron nearby making the true cost more like 500 points per unit.

The Cauldron and the Bloodwrack shrine are the biggest let downs imo. as @Lucentia said, the CoB isn't up to much in combat and is quite expensive for a buffing unit. There is no way stacking bloodshields will continue so I hope they just make it a straight 4+ ward.

the BWS is cheap but aura of agony is pathetic - a -1 to hit aura would be nice.

Doomfires are good in theory but I have had games where their spell didn't go off once! it would be better as a shooting attack.

The sisters can be amazing against combat armies in cover with mystic shield they have a 2+ save reflecting mortal wounds on a 4+. The problem is that they just get wiped by shooting and gaunt summoners etc

I think the bloodwrack medusa will become a character model - so the stare needs a buff since you can't stack it in a unit anymore. 

Biggest question mark for me is will we get a spell lore or prayers? The death hags have prayers at the moment but Morathi used to be one of the most powerful sorceress' in the old world so i hope she hasn't forgotten how to cast Arnazipals Black Horror or the Purple sun of Xereus :D Maybe we get prayers AND spells...# too optimistic..

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Prayers seem a gimme, given that the Death Hags already come with some, if they add more wizard units (like Morathi as rightly mentioned, perhaps re-flavour the Bloodwrack Medusa/Shrine as a wizard too) then I could see both a prayer and spell list, but maybe with just three options on each?  I believe that would be the first faction to have both, which might help with establishing a niche for the DoK.

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I think it's pretty much confimed that DoK will get Magic Lore, lore snippet says that those Aelves were brought back thanks to powerful Shadow Magic. I just hope Morathi won't be only spellcaster that would suck. I hope for Sorceress/Mistweave/new Spellcasting Medusa hero 

I don't know about prayers but maybe Death Hags will get aura buffing ability/abilities. 

Right now Witch Elves are just to fragile and doesn't really have enough damage output, sure you can but Hags and Couldrons near them but that's a lot of points. 

For what they do SoS are also low damage output, really expensive unit. Sure even with their ability stacking it still sucks a lot of points into that combo.

I think making Wtich Elves poison (mortal wounds on 6s to hit) and giving SoS -1 rend would be really cool

Doomfire will be much better if the have access to new Magic Lore (if we get one of course) 

 

 

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Hopefully the bloodwrack medusa will be made a wizard. If not she's likely to fall behind when we get those new medusa units.

 

It definitely would be nice to see witch elves and SoS get some changes to make them a bit better as our battlelines but then again our new alleigances or synergies might make them super good. Mechanics similar to bloodreavers where they can get more attacks if they're near certain units would be cool, make them fragile but hit with a tempest flurry of blades to make our enemies really sweat.

 

Glass cannons makes sense for the army but we need the cannon bit really and ideally not having to roll it like 500 points per usable unit.

 

I do expect to see blood shield being non stackable in the new battletome though.

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1 hour ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

Ok so this thread is about to get a whole lot busier!! I will miss being one of the special  snowflakes with a DoK army... (not really :D)

I've actually managed to be reasonably competitive with this army as it is now - but I haven't taken it beyond my regular opponents so there are loads of lists I haven't played against. 

A unit of 30 witch elves is pretty good once you get all the buffs going but I would like to see them get poison attacks back for a mortal wound on a 6. The main problem is that the unit doesnt work at all in its own right - it needs heroes and a cauldron nearby making the true cost more like 500 points per unit.

The Cauldron and the Bloodwrack shrine are the biggest let downs imo. as @Lucentia said, the CoB isn't up to much in combat and is quite expensive for a buffing unit. There is no way stacking bloodshields will continue so I hope they just make it a straight 4+ ward.

the BWS is cheap but aura of agony is pathetic - a -1 to hit aura would be nice.

Doomfires are good in theory but I have had games where their spell didn't go off once! it would be better as a shooting attack.

The sisters can be amazing against combat armies in cover with mystic shield they have a 2+ save reflecting mortal wounds on a 4+. The problem is that they just get wiped by shooting and gaunt summoners etc

I think the bloodwrack medusa will become a character model - so the stare needs a buff since you can't stack it in a unit anymore. 

Biggest question mark for me is will we get a spell lore or prayers? The death hags have prayers at the moment but Morathi used to be one of the most powerful sorceress' in the old world so i hope she hasn't forgotten how to cast Arnazipals Black Horror or the Purple sun of Xereus :D Maybe we get prayers AND spells...# too optimistic..

Would you not say the Bloodwrack shrine is worth it purely for the shooting attacks? My friend has had solid success with the usual 2 he runs, I personally would take them over a Medusa on foot since it is an extra 8 wounds and an aura ability for only 20 more points.

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1 hour ago, JonnyTheKing said:

Would you not say the Bloodwrack shrine is worth it purely for the shooting attacks? My friend has had solid success with the usual 2 he runs, I personally would take them over a Medusa on foot since it is an extra 8 wounds and an aura ability for only 20 more points.

Yeah I din't mean to give the idea that I thought it wasn't worth taking. Just that it could be a little more interesting if the aura ability did something worthwhile too.

I run one shrine and one medusa on foot at the moment. I like the one on foot for the extra movement and the ability to hide her behind terrain. The shrine version usually ends up being arrow/spell bait more often than not but even that is a useful function!

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16 minutes ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

Yeah I din't mean to give the idea that I thought it wasn't worth taking. Just that it could be a little more interesting if the aura ability did something worthwhile too.

I run one shrine and one medusa on foot at the moment. I like the one on foot for the extra movement and the ability to hide her behind terrain. The shrine version usually ends up being arrow/spell bait more often than not but even that is a useful function!

I see what you mean, I agree, I hope it gets changed as I personally can't stand rules like that, they aren't really beneficial and honestly they don't add anything to the model

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As a stormcast player, this army is an amazing sort of 'yin yang' visual match to stormcasts. They have a lot of great contrast but also a lot of things tying them together.

The 'darkness vs light, flesh vs metal, fury vs discipline' thing combined with units that have very similar silhouettes would make them look SWEET.

An army of prosecutors and furies would look awesome. Same with Naga alongside Vanguard raptors. And Morathi teamed up with a stardrake would be soooo good.

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On 1/27/2018 at 3:11 AM, DantePQ said:

As I am competitive player and got bored a little bit playing with Sylvaneth since GH2016 I'm surely going to play Daughters of Khaine when they're released. 

Speaking of comeptitive play there are number of issues DoK must solve to be give DoT, KO, Fyreslayers good fight. 

Battleline units - judging by GH2017 DoK Battlelines are:

- Witch Elves

- Sisters of Slaughter 

- Doomfire Warlocks 

If it stays this way that's quite cool are Doomfire Warlocks could nicely fill out this slot(especially if the can use new magic lore), one big unit of 30 will be needed as well to caputre objectives, screening and to use as chaf. But at this moment both aren't very good - not many attacks, no rend, little to none protection, little to none mortal wounds output. I guess they should have more attacks(Witches) or rend (Sisters). They die to easily. That's why somekind of -1 to hit ability (even if it's against shooting only) would be extra handy. Right know Dryads (and they are not the best battleline in the game anyway) are much better then both Sisters and Witches.  They other way is further point redutcion but that would push them too much into horde direction and I don't see them outfighting Murderhost or Fyreslayers. 

Leaders :

Death Hag - I would love her to be stronger with some kind of better aura ability, right know she's quite cheap but very fragile. 

Shrines : 

they are quite nice but very situatnional, also their abilities didin't have good enough ranges and those get worse as they take wounds. 

What army needes to be cometitvie :

- more attacks output from infantry - Witch Elves always had huge number attacks right now they're average at best with no rend and 1 damage. 

- some kind of mortal wounds output (I'm sure some of them will came through new units or/and spells)

- better protection, I doubt we will get any bunker, but without extra protection DoK need mobility so far it's fairly slow army without any abilities to move faster M7 is nice but nothing spectacular especially with such a fragile army. Armywide negative to hit modfiers would be extra cool and in line with Shadows and DoK fluff.  I guess only Harpies will be hugely mobile.

- ranged weapons those are for sure coming maybe even Harpies with Javelin will be shooting unit. 

- with new Spell Lore I would love to have hero level Spellcaster (Harpy hero, Meduse hero, Sorceress, Mistweaver) or and rule that Sorcereses taken as allies from Darkling Covens coule cast spells from Shadow Lore - that would be extra fluffy rule. 

Considering how meta looks (with elite huge damage output armies  like DoT KO and huge horde armies - Murderhost, Fyreslayers) I could see DoK having both - quite usefull and good big blocks of infantry in improved Witches and Sisters back by awesome spellcasting and quite good damage output. 

 

Have you not actually played DoK? Most army builds currently have 3 to 4 5+++ saves. Which is in the neighborhood of 80% damage reduction.

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