eekamouse Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 I don't see any rule preventing Shambling Horde from being legal in Skirmish. I also don't see how it would make zombies not terrible either. I guess it could be nice to tie up someone and get multiple attacks in at once...? If you had a Necromancer as your General this could be more useful as you can get them to attack twice... Hmm... Was just going through Death and looking at combos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tittliewinks22 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 My group allows it, still hasnt been terribly great unless you go all in on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekamouse Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 Ya. It would change, "You should never ever ever take zombies" to "Ya maybe, have some zombies". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDuff Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 If you have half a brain you have some zombies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldoBeardo Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 I'd say no - because the rule is that you treat every model as an individual unit, not that you're limited to buying units of one in the first place.You could have 20 zombies on the board, mob them all up... and they still have to move and fight individually because that's a core rule of skirmish.In the same way the rules of one nobbled lots of warscroll abilities.Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadysaneto Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Id say no. But since banner and musicians affect other "units" from the same scroll, i woudnt mind if my opponent used it. It wouldnt help that much anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davariel Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 4 hours ago, MacDuff said: If you have half a brain you have some zombies. Is that because the zombies ate the other half...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekamouse Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 Well after some more research elsewhere, it seems that this is actually a balanced rule. It's actually not really great to put them all into one unit considering they have no save, and damage would spill over. One kind of sort of neat combo, is you could keep them all separate. Then at a later hero phase, merge them, use your Necromancer to get two attacks, and if you Necro has Inspirational Fighter, they re-roll 1's. I mean... they're still pretty terrible, but if you have some spare renown, it's worth it (maybe?) to throw a few zombies down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 You can only have one unit of them. You can only take a warscroll once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekamouse Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 The warscroll is just the limiter to how many and what kinds you can field. I'm not seeing it governing what abilities you can use, unless explicitly stated. I do think this is certainly FAQ-able. I hope they do FAQ it as legal as it makes zombies kind of interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 I believe they're separate units when you field them, but can use their special ability to merge into a bigger one. They basically become a horde. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oppenheimer Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 I don't think it works. Everything is always still a unit. It's just that they are all treated like individual units. So there's nothing to merge. They started as a unit, they just don't function as one in Skirmish. Skirmish's individual model thing is a half baked idea anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 They're all 1 unit, who work independently, you still get unit bonuses when you have x amount but they can run around and attack separately. There is no merging as its one unit which you can only take once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldoBeardo Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 The warscroll is just the limiter to how many and what kinds you can field. I'm not seeing it governing what abilities you can use, unless explicitly stated. I do think this is certainly FAQ-able. I hope they do FAQ it as legal as it makes zombies kind of interesting.There's two points that mean you can't.1) You can only take a warscroll once. Which means that you only have 1 'proper' unit of Zombies anyway, so they can't merge with another unit.2) Skirmish formation rules - each model is treated as an individual unit. So even if you managed to figure out a way around 1) and merged some zombies into a bigger unit... Every model in that unit is instantly separated out into a unit of 1 model.They're not being 'prevented' from using the ability - it's just that the ability has absolutely no effect.Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekamouse Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 But, the rules specifically say to treat them as "separate units". To me it's more clear that the "single warscroll limitation" is just a purchasing limitation and stops there. For example, Pink Horrors can each attempt to cast and unbind a spell. So, if you run four Pink Horrors, you could effectively cast four different spells and unbind four different opponent's spells. I would say that mention is actually in favor of Shambling Horde working. I'm certain you don't get bonuses for having X amount in a unit. I haven't seen example where this makes sense. The rules state you still get bonuses from banners etc... that are within 6 inches. But, any of the abilities I've seen say you need more than what is legally fieldable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldoBeardo Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 But, the rules specifically say to treat them as "separate units". To me it's more clear that the "single warscroll limitation" is just a purchasing limitation and stops there. For example, Pink Horrors can each attempt to cast and unbind a spell. So, if you run four Pink Horrors, you could effectively cast four different spells and unbind four different opponent's spells. I would say that mention is actually in favor of Shambling Horde working. I'm certain you don't get bonuses for having X amount in a unit. I haven't seen example where this makes sense. The rules state you still get bonuses from banners etc... that are within 6 inches. But, any of the abilities I've seen say you need more than what is legally fieldable. Yes. You treat all models as single units.So you have 3 zombies.You merge them into one big unit of 3 models...And they're still 3 separate units.The skirmish Formation isn't just applied at set-up, it is a rule/condition that applies throughout the game.In skirmish, you cannot have a unit bigger than 1 model.Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekamouse Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 I get it. I just think Shambling Horde supersedes that rule. Agree to disagree I think here as many folks on the Facebook group said they wouldn't allow it. It also gives Death a reasonable 1-2 renown model to use. The other factions have them beat pretty handily in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stato Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, BaldoBeardo said: Yes. You treat all models as single units. So you have 3 zombies. You merge them into one big unit of 3 models... And they're still 3 separate units. The skirmish Formation isn't just applied at set-up, it is a rule/condition that applies throughout the game. In skirmish, you cannot have a unit bigger than 1 model. Thats true for every other unit, but zombies is the only one with the ability to join units in a game, so id totally let my opponent join those zombies up. Mainly as it would be so cool, and has as much negative (multi-wound carryover and unit coherency) as it does benefit (shambling horde bonus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldoBeardo Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 If you decide to let your opponent do it that's absolutely fine.But the point of this is determining what it's *supposed* to be.Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekamouse Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 I think it's fair to throw a little bit of "rule of cool" in here. Shambling Horde being allowed in this way fits the theme, gives them a balanced ability, makes them actually interesting to play, and (imo) doesn't break the spirit of the core rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stato Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 10 minutes ago, eekamouse said: I think it's fair to throw a little bit of "rule of cool" in here. Shambling Horde being allowed in this way fits the theme, gives them a balanced ability, makes them actually interesting to play, and (imo) doesn't break the spirit of the core rule. Yeah. Id not let you buff the grouped zombies with the Necromancer though, there is a line between sigmar and skirmish, unless you want to let me buff my Thunderers 'unit' with my Khemist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldoBeardo Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 (imo) doesn't break the spirit of the core rule.If you want to do it, that's fine, all good, enjoy. But I'm not sure *directly breaking* a rule can be called in the "spirit"... [emoji12] Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekamouse Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 Pretty sure your 4 attack 18 inch ranged 3+ to hit being buffed on a single model is fine in Skirmish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekamouse Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 1 minute ago, BaldoBeardo said: If you want to do it, that's fine, all good, enjoy. But I'm not sure *directly breaking* a rule can be called in the "spirit"... Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk The Shambling Horde rule is what's directly contradicting. Specific rules typically supersede core rules. It's pretty common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldoBeardo Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 The Shambling Horde rule is what's directly contradicting. Specific rules typically supersede core rules. It's pretty common.Except for.. ooh.. every single summoning ability, buffing saves to 1+, casting spells multiple times...Precedent very definitely set that "game mode" rules trump *everything*, courtesy of the GHB and sundry FAQ rulings.Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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