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Undiscovered Power Lists: Order Draconis


Tronhammer NZ

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Despite the simple core rules, Warhammer: Age of Sigmar is a deep and complex wargame, with most of the complexity found in the unit rules, or ‘warscrolls’. Metagame-defining combos are still being discovered, hidden in plain sight within (and between) the hundreds (and hundreds) of warscrolls available.

Here in the land of Tron we have access to the ‘Rain Man’ of the Age of Sigmar, a mysterious figure known only as ‘Jim’. Jim has a sixth sense at finding combos, and I wanted to start a series to go over some of his list-tech.

These will be lists that we haven’t yet seen much (if at all) in the international tournament scene. I suppose I should qualify that by saying that it is quite possible some of these lists have been discovered, and even used competitively, but our focus is on their lack of prominence for the purpose of this series.

Without further pre-amble, I give you the first of the Undiscovered Power Lists - Order Draconis.

 

Order Draconis.jpg


Carrying on ancient traditions from a world long-lost, the Order Draconis range across the Eight Realms, 
searching for other enclaves, and assisting the forces of light against the Mad Gods.

Order Draconis

Aelf lists are not heavily favoured in the competitive metagame at present. We think this list is an exception, as it can be built to perform as one of the most effective alpha-strike lists out there. In Warhammer: Age of Sigmar, games often come down to one crucial turn. This list takes advantage of this dynamic, pumping up the effectiveness of all models and enabling them to take maximum advantage of it for that one turn.

The List

  • Dragonlord Host (Battalion) - 80
    • Dragonlord  (General) - 400
      • Dragon Lance 
      • Aelven War Horn
      • Reckless (Re-Roll Runs and Charge within 10”)
      • Quicksilver Potion (attacks before other models)
    • Dragon Blades (x5) - 160
    • Dragon Blades (x5) - 160
       
  • Dragonlord Host (Battalion) - 80
    • Dragonlord - 400
      • Dragon Lance 
      • Aelven War Horn
      • Quicksilver Potion (attacks before other models)
    • Dragon Blades (x5) - 160
    • Dragon Blades (x5) - 160
       
  • Dragonlord - 400
    • Dragon Lance 
    • Aelven War Horn
    • Quicksilver Potion (attacks before other models)

Leaders: 3
Battleline: 4
Behemoths: 3
Number of models: 23

TOTAL POINTS: 2,000

 

The Combos

Deployment

Three deployment drops - one Dragonlord, and the two battalions. This means you will almost certainly get the first turn. And if you don’t, it’s not the end of the world, just hand back and set up for the charge in a following turn. While this makes for a spectacular first turn charge, this army works just as well saving up for a decisive big turn later in the game if required.

When deploying, a key consideration is making sure that your units are within 10” of the general at key moments - that will be the main skill of the list.

Speed

First up, the basic Move profiles are very fast; 14” for the Dragonlords and 12” for the Dragon Blades.

Add to this the battalion ability, which allows each unit to make a full move in the hero phase. If they are close enough to charge, after this bonus move, they can do so on a 4+. However, what we are aiming for is a turn one charge, so you will be starting at least 24” away from your opponent’s models, meaning this charge will require a roll of 10+ for the Dragonlords and a 12 for the Blades. We will opt to save this ability for the Dragonfire instead - more on that later.

The army now makes its regular move. By now, the Dragonlords have moved 28”, and the Dragon Blades 24”.  They should be within easy reach of key targets. Because Dragonlords can fly, you can even get over the chaff or terrain if needed.

Then you get to do your charge, on average another 7”, but you also have the General’s Reckless ability to reroll your charge rolls within 10” of him if you have positioned carefully.

The first turn charge is a big deal, but as mentioned, you can also save the big charge for later in the game - in which case charging in the hero phase might be a useful option.


The upshot is, this army can move across the table for the turn one charge more reliably than Destruction armies using Rampaging Destroyer, and almost as well as the Lightning Strike Stormcast.

Shooting

A requirement of decent alpha strike armies is the ability to clear 'chaff'. Chaff are the annoying sacrificial units the enemy will throw in your way to slow you down, or ‘bubble-wrap’ more important units.

To help deal with this, Dragonlords each have a ranged ability called Dragonfire.

Remember how we passed up the opportunity of charging in the hero phase using that battalion ability? Instead, on a 4+, the Dragonlords can use Dragonfire in the hero phase, each potentially causing D6 mortal wounds. They can then do this again in the shooting phase. Pretty decent.

Combat

This is the meat-and-potatoes part of the list. Let’s assume you’ve managed to charge at least one dragon into key targets, which is quite likely. How much damage can you actually do?

Each Dragonlord has an Aelven War Horn. When blown once per game, all units within 10” gain +1 attack with each melee weapon. The wording is important. If all three blow them in the hero phase, and are within 10” of each other, that is +3 attacks with each melee weapon.


Suddenly, each Dragonlord attacks with:

  • Dragon Lance:
    • 6 Attacks, 3+ to Hit, 2+ to Wound, -1 Rend, 3 Damage
  • Dragon’s Claws: 
    • 9 Attacks, 4+ to Hit, 3+ to Wound, -1 Rend, 2 Damage
  • Fearsome Jaws: 
    • 6 Attacks, 4+ to Hit, 2+ to Wound, -2 Rend, D6 Damage

And each unit of 5 Dragon Blades unit attacks with:

  • Drake Lance:  
    • 25 Attacks, 3+ to Hit, 3+ to Wound, 0 Rend, 2 Damage
  • Steed:   
    • 25 Attacks, 4+ to Hit, 4+ to Wound, 0 Rend, 1 Damage.


Fearsome Jaws is the important one, but imagine a unit of 5 Knights doing 50 attacks! And half of them do two damage each!

Now for the fun part. The General’s Command Ability, Lord of Dragons, allows every unit within 10” to reroll all failed Hit rolls for its combat attacks.

OK I lied, THIS is the fun part; all Dragonlords have Quicksilver Potions. This is because you have two battalions in use, so you get an extra two artefacts. Most events allow duplicate artefacts (nothing against it in the GHB anyway). So you can attack with all three Dragonlords before the enemy gets to strike back. And as this is also your turn, you can even get in a unit of Dragon Blades.

And that’s pretty much it. As an alpha strike army, you are getting the charge, doing an almighty ton of damage, and hoping there is not enough left to swing back.

Army Cost

The Dragonlord Hosts as a competitive 2,000 point army is one of the least expensive to collect. RRP directly from GW it is £177.50 - less if you purchase via online retailers. That’s a pretty good deal!

Additionally, there are only 23 models to prepare, making it a good one for a beginner to get stuck into.

Weaknesses

There are some downsides that a canny opponent can take advantage of. The key one is that this army does its thing in one turn, while the Aelven War Horns, Potions, and charge bonuses are in effect. The Hit roll of the most important attacks (such as the Dragon’s) are only 4+, so anything that reduces the hit roll is going to throw a big spanner in the works.

During turns in which these guys do not charge, the lance attacks lose +1 to Wound and 1 damage. Also, there is a lack of rend for a lot of these attacks.

Objective play is a strength of the army, with a high threat range and speed.  But the army needs to throw everything at you in one go, and then go back for the objectives once they’re done. Perhaps keeping one or two units of Dragon Blades in reserve. So if you can keep out of their reach you might be able to score enough to take the game away from them. Easier said than done though.

And lastly, just outlasting them if you can. Enough chaff ‘bubble-wrap’, a few missed charges from the Dragons, and things will start looking up.

On the Table

Jim and I had two games play testing the Dragonlord Host. My army consisted of:

Nagash - 900
4 x Morghast Archai - 480
2 x Morchast Harbinger - 240
2 x Morghast Harbinger - 240

 

Proxy.jpg

The Draconis force has been censored here due to unsightly proxies. Just use your imagination!

 

I had been yet to lose Nagash in a matched play game so far, spanning three tournaments and a bunch of test games, so I was counting on Hand of Dust doing some good work.

In the first game, Jim had the first turn, and by the end of that same turn I had lost Nagash and four Morghast Archai without striking back.

In the second game, I took the first turn, got all my buffs off, and then tried to bubble-wrap Nagash a bit better. I moved the Harbingers to take some side objectives. This time Jim charged in the second turn, and again I lost Nagash and most of everything else in one round.

Absolutely brutal!

I would be keen to hear from anyone who has tried this! Please let me know your thoughts in the posts below. Can you think of any other counters? Would you be keen on giving the army a try?

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It's funny that I literally just put an Order Draconis list together, although I went with a little bit more balance, using some other aelven units for battleline and the 100 point heroes for little charging cruise missiles.  I'll needs to think a bit more on the multi dragon list.

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1 minute ago, Nico said:

Interesting - horn Spam looks good. I am wondering if Fanatics would really spoil the party though!

Definitely! Jim says it's about picking the timing of your charge. Can even send in the Dragon Blades on one turn, and save the Dragonlords for a second wave.

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The problem is that if you're packing in the models, then you're liable to have 2 units pinned by a single Fanatic. Which they will then do again in the next turn. More of a problem if the Fanatics are guarding the usual Kunning Rukk autodelete everything within range that isn't on a 2+ rerolling ones save - especially monsters.

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Yup, that's a big weak spot. With the right matchups though you could go through and win a tournament I reckon. Like most other armies in AOS, there are decent counters out there, which is good for the game!

Edited by Tronhammer NZ
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Yup, that's a big weak spot. With the right matchups though you could go through and win a tournament I reckon. Like most other armies in AOS, there are decent counters out there, which is good for the game!

Yep - the rock paper scissors (or hard counters) aspect of the game is crucial. Just need a Tzeentch lore spell which forces a ranged unit to shoot itself and the game will be perfect.B|

Edited by Nico
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Most importantly. It looks fun! It's easy to play, because you have so few warscrolls, and I'd love to see that across the table from me at a tournament. It's very different than what I've seen and who doesn't love Dragons?!

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Yeah, fanatic screens are the big issue imo and not one this force can easily get around.  With all the destruction in the meta right now (dozens at Blood and Glory?), it would be hard to get the right matchups with this force.  One change that I would consider making is dropping the third dragon for 4 mounted dragon nobles which could give you rerolls on the important charges, are smaller so you can land more of the strategic charges, give you a higher model count with additional heroes for points of power, and yet still are punchy on the charge.

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I played against a Dragonlord Host the other day, and that thing is just brutal. It wiped a unit of Liberators, Protectors, and Prosecutors in one go (we were playing 1000, so no room for Skyborne Slayers). Absolutely insane. However, it didn't feel unbeatable, proper deployment and screening could make a big difference. I think it has enough counters that it doesn't feel imbalanced, but I could see how it feels harsh when it plays against certain armies. 

Expecting to see this at tournaments in the near future!

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I played against a Dragonlord Host the other day, and that thing is just brutal. It wiped a unit of Liberators, Protectors, and Prosecutors in one go (we were playing 1000, so no room for Skyborne Slayers). Absolutely insane.

I'd just add that at 1,000 points (let alone 500) monsters become a lot stronger than at 2,000. Balance can only really be measured and decided at one points level. 

Classic examples include the Arachnorok and two units of Spider Riders:

Arach.JPG

Despite having said models, I foolishly left them at home and brought the mighty Fyreslayers....

The Stonelord is also obscene at 1,000 points with Battlebrew.

 

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1 minute ago, James Ramsay said:

The 3rd dragonlord seems a bit slow/out of place? Would be difficult to get him involved turn 1 without some luck :(.

You only really need two into key targets, and you could save the third for another turn or wait until a later turn for all three. As mentioned, the knack is in getting the timing right.

It's not foolproof, but it's a lot more viable than you might think.

I think the next list we plan on covering will not be so put out against fanatics >:) that said, I think with some practice you could play around them with this list.

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I used a 4 Dragon list in pre-GHB times (under SCGT comp).

It was great fun to play (and, I was told, great fun to play against!). I'll definitely be trying this one out!

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On 05/12/2016 at 11:40 PM, Nico said:

Interesting - horn Spam looks good. I am wondering if Fanatics would really spoil the party though!

Dragonlord Host in hero phase '...can attempt to charge as if it were the charge phase.' Does this trigger fanatics...? I think not as it's not actually the charge phase. I know this was covered a bit with similar wording in this the bonesplittaz but don't recall the outcome.

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Good point! 

If you used the Battalion ability then I don't think they would activate. However if you are going for the turn 1 charge, you would most likely still be too far out to make it in during the Hero Phase, assuming you fill the 4+.

Still, if you can arrange it so that you are close enough in later turns, this is a good way to get around the Fanatic #GrotBlock.

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Awesome, I'm using Dragon Blades as my blood knights next year so it's good to know I can always use them in a filthy elf list as well ^_^

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Dragonlord Host in hero phase '...can attempt to charge as if it were the charge phase.' Does this trigger fanatics...? I think not as it's not actually the charge phase. I know this was covered a bit with similar wording in this the bonesplittaz but don't recall the outcome.

We don't know and there are arguments both ways. I've previously argued that for a deemed combat phase ability (e.g. pile in and attack in the hero phase as if it were the combat phase) - the enemy would get any defensive buffs that work in the combat phase (shields that only work in the combat phase for example). Similarly if the Kunning Rukk were to shoot Moonclan Grots sporting both banners (as they are allowed to do by the FAQ....) in a deemed shooting phase within the hero phase, then they would get their +1 to save against shooting banner. Thusfar - probably not too controversial - these all "make sense" - they're still carrying the same banner, they're still carrying the same shield.

Some kind of stand and shoot ability that works in the charge phase - Freeguild trickery? Sisters of the Watch? - would also presumably work in a deemed charge phase. 

Deploying Fanatics can happen in either player's charge phase, so by creating a deemed charge phase and following the above logic, it does seem possible to argue that the other player can deploy them and make a charge in the start of the deemed charge phase. However, this does seem to be one step removed from the shields and banners examples, so I can foresee some resistance to the idea. The problem is that drawing a line to say that the "deeming" goes this far and no further is what an FAQ should do (or a TO for a given event).

Obligatory mini-rant about the Kunning Rukk

I personally haven't found any examples that seem imbalanced about the enemy having mitigating ploys in your own deemed phases - the real imbalance in deemed phase land is still unsurprisingly the 40 Arrer Boy (80 wounds) Kunning Rukk (in both the pure Bonesplitter and mixed Destruction Filth variants).

Saying that you can kill the Big Boss doesn't really address the fact that even without the extra round of shooting, they still autodelete virtually any monster; likely delete several normal (4+) save units within range; autowin the game/break the clock if they have damned terrain anywhere on their side of the table; combo very well with Thundertusks and Fanatics; and soak up an absurd amount of damage with their 2 wounds for 10 points cost making it very hard to counter them. 

Counters to Fanatics

I have found that just as some of the best hard counters to Stormcast are in the Order Grand Alliance*, so some of the best hard counters to Fanatics are (at least 6) Yhetees ("I don't feel like charging, I'm going to just pile in 6 inches from 6 inches away because that's how I roll") and Nasty Skulkers, see games 3 (up already); and 5 (to come):

*One almost asks why Stormcast need the Gryph Hound's rules when they are the ones doing the most teleporting? Then one remembers that Chaos armies used to summon units (i.e. Daemons) and this used to be an actual threat and this triggered Gryph Hounds - I'm not arguing for summoning to be changed btw - Chaos's strength lies elsewhere and they aren't that much weaker than Order and Destruction.

 

 

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Thanks, @Nico - it's all interesting discussion either way I think. Sometimes it feels like rulings like this either way are going to benefit some builds over others. definitely looking forward to some official clarification on the 'deemed' phases (which is a great term for the issue by the way).

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Cheers. I agree. Sylvaneth and Bonesplitterz would be particularly susceptible to tinkering with deemed phases. 

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A friend showed me this and your Archaon Rotbringer list today. How does your mind work like this haha!? I just can't start thinking of combos like this :)

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7 minutes ago, NiallJC1984 said:

A friend showed me this and your Archaon Rotbringer list today. How does your mind work like this haha!? I just can't start thinking of combos like this :)

Hah!  No-one knows how Jim's mind works. That's why we keep him locked in a box, with the only communication allowed being via army list.

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Considering this post is 2years old now (found it via the search bar), thought I'd just ask the question... Is it still viable/worth investing in? Seems quite cheap and incredibly fun!

So thought I'd perform a quick bit of Necromancy and find out haha!

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