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Can You Pick the Winner Just from the Lists - An AoS Experiment


Beer & Pretzels Gamer

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Can You Pick the Tournament Winner from the Lists - An AoS Experiment  

17 members have voted

  1. 1. Can you pick the winning list before any of the games are played?

    • Fyreslayers
      8
    • Khorne
      3
    • Mawtribes
      5
    • Bonesplitterz
      2

In our new tournament I am getting to run an experiment I have always wanted to try.  Four players are submitting 2K lists to play in a double round robin tournament.  In the first round robin each player will play their own list against each of their opponent's lists.  In the second round robin each player will play their opponent's list against their own.  To me ultimate bragging rights in AoS would come from being able to beat you with my own list and then turn around and beat you again playing your list against mine.  Looking forward to this new approach to the game.

But I also thought it would be an excellent way to test another theory.  It is only natural that threads such as these would get very focused on the lists as they are the easiest thing to debate & discuss in such a forum.  Taken to an extreme though sometimes it can almost feel like there's no reason to actually play the games.  There seems to be some conviction that List A will always win against all comers across all battleplans, or List B has no hope against list C, or list D can't win Battleplan X.  As I've said before in a game with as much opportunity for tactical skill as for random chance I think you always have to play the games.

But I am curious if the wisdom of the crowds can suss out a winner just from the lists?  In a normal tournament player skill may be too big a factor but here, with each list getting played by multiple players I think there is a little less room for that to completely throw things off.  So I've put the poll above and below are the four lists that were submitted:

Allegiance: Fyreslayers
- Lodge: Vostarg

Leaders
Auric Runefather on Magmadroth (270)
- General
- Command Trait: Fiery Endurance
- Artefact: Vosaxe
- Magmadroth Trait: Coal-heart Ancient
Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth (250)
- Forge Key
- Artefact: Ash-cloud Rune
- Magmadroth Trait: Ash-horn Ancient
- Prayer: Prayer of Ash
Auric Runemaster (120)
- Prayer: Prayer of Ash
Battlesmith (140)
Auric Runesmiter (120)
- Runic Iron
- Prayer: Searing Heat

Battleline
20 x Vulkite Berzerkers (280)
- War-Picks & Slingshields
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers (140)
- Pairs of Handaxes
20 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (400)
- Poleaxes

Units
5 x Auric Hearthguard (120)

Battalions
Lords of the Lodge (150)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 154

-X-X-X

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Baleful Lords (Host of Chaos)

Leaders
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (270)
- Artefact: A'rgath the King of Blades
Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury (270)
- Artefact: Black Brass Crown
Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster (300)
- General
- Command Trait: Thirst for Carnage
- Artefact: The Crimson Crown
Skarbrand (380)
Karanak (140)

Battleline
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)

Battalions
Blood Hunt (120)
Blood Legion (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 101

-X-X-X-

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Boulderhead

Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
- General
- Command Trait: Lord of Beasts
- Artefact: Brand of the Svard
- Mount Trait: Black Clatterhorn
Huskard on Stonehorn (320)
- Blood Vulture
- Artefact: Alvagr Rune-tokens
- Mount Trait: Frosthoof Bull
Butcher (140)
- Cleaver
- Lore of Gutmagic: Ribcracker
Icebrow Hunter (120)

Battleline
2 x Mournfang Pack (140)
- Gargant Hackers
2 x Mournfang Pack (140)
- Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers with Iron Fists
Stonehorn Beastriders (300)

Units
4 x Ironguts (220)
2 x Frost Sabres (40)

Battalions
Eurlbad (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 95

-X-X-X-

Allegiance: Bonesplitterz
- Warclan: Bonesplitterz

Leaders
Maniak Weirdnob (140)
- Artefact: Glowin' Tattooz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
Savage Big Boss (90)
Savage Big Boss (90)
Wardokk (80)
- Artefact: Big Wurrgog Mask
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Breath of Gorkamorka
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
- General
- Command Trait: Voice of Da Gods
- Artefact: Dokk Juice
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Brutal Beast Spirits

Battleline
20 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (240)
10 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (120)
10 x Savage Orruks (120)
- Chompas

Units
2 x Savage Big Stabbas (100)
2 x Savage Big Stabbas (100)

Behemoths
Rogue Idol (420)

Battalions
Kunnin' Rukk (140)
Teef Rukk (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 142

-X-X-X-

To give you as much info as possible to help you make your decision the tournament matches are as follows:

1st Round = Shifting Objective (GH2020)

- Bonesplitterz vs. Mawtribes

- Fyreslayers vs. Khorne

2nd Round = Scorched Earth

- Bonesplitterz vs. Fyreslayers

- Mawtribes vs. Khorne

Round 3 = Focal Points

- Bonesplitterz vs. Khorne

- Fyreslayers vs. Mawtribes

and again, once we've completed the first round robin we will play through the same matches with the players switching lists.

What else?  All players have now played in multiple Zoom tournaments and thus have adapted as well as possible to the conditions.  Oh yeah, due to set up we are playing on a 48"x58" map.  We do our best to scale appropriately (e.g. in Shifting Objectives the side objectives are 9.5" from the edge as opposed to the usual 12").  We do have a decent amount of terrain on table but don't go all out giving each terrain piece a characteristic because this just proved too difficult for the people zooming in to keep track of. 

I think that is it.  I'll try to answer any questions below.

And please let me know why you made your choice.  I am very curious to learn what other players think.

6 Comments


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I’ve picked fyreslayers as khorne and Ogre wound counts seem way too low and pile in on death VB plus the HGB blob will probably be too much for them. 
 

BS again seems to have a low wound count for themselves as BS can often be up around 200 and the shooting Rukk really isn’t what it used to be after all the nerfs. Idol is nice but is the only standout threat. 

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If you’ve got at least one skavenplayer using at least 1Doomwheel unit and the vial of the fulminator artifact.

I’m most certain the winner can not in any way possible be already determined before the game starts.

 

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On 1/30/2021 at 10:59 PM, Reuben Parker said:

I’ve picked fyreslayers as khorne and Ogre wound counts seem way too low and pile in on death VB plus the HGB blob will probably be too much for them. 
 

BS again seems to have a low wound count for themselves as BS can often be up around 200 and the shooting Rukk really isn’t what it used to be after all the nerfs. Idol is nice but is the only standout threat. 

We do always enjoy it when Pebbles, as our Rogue Idol is affectionately known, gets on the table but you’re right that it does come at a cost of other models on the table (not that I’m complaining as the guy moving them all around...).

As the Fyreslayer player hope you’re right!

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On 1/31/2021 at 5:58 AM, Skreech Verminking said:

If you’ve got at least one skavenplayer using at least 1Doomwheel unit and the vial of the fulminator artifact.

I’m most certain the winner can not in any way possible be already determined before the game starts.

 

As soon as I get ahold of 300 painted clan rats (still can’t believe you painted that many, props again) and a Doomwheel my friend we’ll give it a try!  😎

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The results are in.

Fyreslayers went 4-2.  They went 3-0 in the first set of games but when the tables flipped proved harder to pilot by players unfamiliar with the faction.  Retaining the buff bubbles proved especially difficult for first time players.  

Mawtribes also went 4-2 but with the opposite approach.  As it is arguably the most played faction in Zoom League both Fyreslayers and Khorne were ready for them in the first set of matches, resulting in the list going 1-2.  But said familiarity made it the easiest list for other players to pick up and succeed with and thus went 3-0 when the tables flipped.

Khorne went 3-3 after a good start going 2-1 but losing again to Fyreslayers when the tables turned and to Mawtribes as well.

Bonsplitterz struggled to 1-5 but had the distinction of picking up the first victory against Fyreslayers when the tables turned and had shots at two more victories snatched away late in the game.

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1 ogors

2 fireslayers

3 korne

4 orruks

 

I think the fireslayers are the best in combat, but the ogors have a good cpmbay and good moblity.

Khorne just cant xD.

And the orruks, i think his list isnt optimal, i dont like so much thst list.

 

Edit; ok i readed the last reply, the fireslayers won xD.

Buy i won fireslayers usually picking objectives and defending. They are a bit slow.

Edited by Iradekhorne
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