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Skaven in AOS2 - Mixed Skaven

Welcome to Age of Sigmar second edition people. Lets kick off the first blog post for this edition with how mixed skaven measures up thanks to the chages to Grand Alliance: Chaos rules.

Allegiance Ability

The GA: Chaos allegiance ability is nothing too overpowered, par the course for the Grand Alliances. "Unbridled Malice" is a slight rework of the old ability they had, in this edition you roll a dice for a unit when you select it to fight in the combat phase if that unit is within 12 inches of your general or 3 inches of a hero, and on the roll of a 6 they add one to all their hit rolls. I like this one (on the event anyone remembers to actually roll for it) because Skaven field a lot of heroes and a lot of units that really benefit from +1 to hit like Clanrats, Plague Monks and Gutter Runners, and I'll be adding this to my reminder sheet.

Command Traits

  • Dark Avenger - This grants +1 to hit against order units for the general. Not great really.
  • Spiteful Duelist - Reroll one wound roll per combat for the general. Somehow worse than the above.
  • Cunning Deciever - Roll a dice at the start of your turn, with a 5+ netting you a free command point. This is pretty cool to be honest, great for a pasive long range force like a heavy Skryre or a Moulder force that needs all the command points it can get.
  • Lord of War - Pick a unit within 3 inches and roll a dice, on a 4+ it gets +1 to hit. Definitely neat, this one will usually not ever be a waste especially considering Unbridled Malice as a rule.
  • Terrifying Pressence - Enemies within 3 inches of the general suffer -1 to bravery. Not awful, definitely not better than Lord of War or Cunning Deciever.
  • Malicious Conqueror - Add 1 to all Unbridled Malice rolls made within 12 inches of the general. I like this one, and in my army that runs a heavy amount of minimum size Plague Monk units i'll be taking this every time.

Artifacts

I literally have no interest in covering 5 out of the 6 artifacts in this list because they're absolutely worthless. However one of them is a classic from the last two editions of the GHB, and it got one HELL of a remake.

  • The Crown of Conquest - Friendly CHAOS units within 6 inches of the bearer don't need to test for battleshock. I'm sorry, what? How on earth did this get past the design team? Did they think the new coherence rule somehow would make this not completely broken? I'm switching from Pestilens Allegiance for this. That's how big a deal this is. This takes Strength in Numbers and kicks it out the door. This thing on a Plaguesmog Congregation Plague Furnace pushed by clanrats for the Look Out Sir rule? Totally broken. This is now a 12 wound model with -2 to hit it providing a 6 inch bubble of NO BATTLESHOCK. This is stupid. I basically wrote this entire blog post to cover this ridiculous artifact.

 



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Hey dude,

Really interesting post, must say I've always dismissed the Chaos allegiance as trash but reading this may give it a go over Pestilens allegiance! Are there any particular non Pestilens Skaven units you'd recommend as part of a mixed list? I normally only ever bring an Arch Warlock on Balewind.

Cheers

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On 7/7/2018 at 8:49 AM, Johnny Pestilens said:

Hey dude,

Really interesting post, must say I've always dismissed the Chaos allegiance as trash but reading this may give it a go over Pestilens allegiance! Are there any particular non Pestilens Skaven units you'd recommend as part of a mixed list? I normally only ever bring an Arch Warlock on Balewind.

Cheers

Stormfiends, stormvermins, any kind of Verminlord, warpfire throwers, giant rats and clanrats.

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On 7/7/2018 at 6:49 PM, Johnny Pestilens said:

Hey dude,

Really interesting post, must say I've always dismissed the Chaos allegiance as trash but reading this may give it a go over Pestilens allegiance! Are there any particular non Pestilens Skaven units you'd recommend as part of a mixed list? I normally only ever bring an Arch Warlock on Balewind.

Cheers

Hey there mate, if I had to recomend my top 5 units to ally to Clan Pestilens id have to go with...

  • Screaming Bell
  • Arch Warlock
  • Clanrats
  • Clanrats
  • Clanrats

Clanrats do two things well. They form a wall to protect assets and they squat on objectives. As a pestilens player you should be playing to the strengths of your army (Plague Monks) and working to ally in choices that best compliment them. This is why i prefer not to ally Skryre weaponry and only take the Arch Warlock to tournaments rather than just general games. Clanrats will protect your Plague Monks and hold objectives while your monks run up the table and lay the pain. Give it a try sometime and let me know how you find it.

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Deathrunner. The Crown of Conquest. Give 'em a command trait (as a general). It just gives me tingles. Quite frankly, good in any general chaos army.

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Screaming Bell can summon Skreech Verminking, who can transform enemy unit into clanrats, can add +1 Attack to Skaven units and deal MW. And has useful Command Ability.

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21 hours ago, AIdenNicol444 said:

Hey there mate, if I had to recomend my top 5 units to ally to Clan Pestilens id have to go with...

  • Screaming Bell
  • Arch Warlock
  • Clanrats
  • Clanrats
  • Clanrats

Clanrats do two things well. They form a wall to protect assets and they squat on objectives. As a pestilens player you should be playing to the strengths of your army (Plague Monks) and working to ally in choices that best compliment them. This is why i prefer not to ally Skryre weaponry and only take the Arch Warlock to tournaments rather than just general games. Clanrats will protect your Plague Monks and hold objectives while your monks run up the table and lay the pain. Give it a try sometime and let me know how you find it.

Will do, cheers dude. Do you find they work best in big blobs or more as multiple groups of 10 acting as chaff/screens to absorb charges?

The screaming bell looks tempting just sucks it went up in points.

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13 hours ago, Oldmanlee said:

Hi why do you find the screaming bell as a good ally unit for a pestilence army? 

I find that with the exception of the 2 result on the Screaming Bell roll table, none of them are objectively bad. Ideally we want the +1 to attack or the summon a free Verminlord, but the 13 inch range mortal wounds will hurt.

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17 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Deathrunner. The Crown of Conquest. Give 'em a command trait (as a general). It just gives me tingles. Quite frankly, good in any general chaos army.

Does that mean both models, the copy and original count as having the artifact? Naughty!

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1 minute ago, Johnny Pestilens said:

Will do, cheers dude. Do you find they work best in big blobs or more as multiple groups of 10 acting as chaff/screens to absorb charges?

The screaming bell looks tempting just sucks it went up in points.

Sadly Clanrats have to be taken as a group of either 20 or 40, but they're super cheap so it isn't a bother. Ally 1 or 2 groups of 40, or 3 groups of 20. As for the bell, it should still be 200pts, same as last edition?

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I'm curious about such interest in the Screaming Bell. I haven't quite cracked the code with it. With the new rules I would argue that objectively its greatest contribution is simply its command ability with which you can stack  extra bravery, not too mention you can add the Cogs endless spell for even more movement. 

If the new summoning rules tickle your fancy, I would say why not run 2 or 3 screaming bells for fun. 

If the mortal wounds is what draws you to this unit, which is the most common result on the bell, its still really tough to get that to impact the game the first two turns. I found much more value this way by Skitterleaping it into action with the Verminlord Deceiver.  And even then, the 4+ you need for units in range is unreliable. That isn't to say that I absolutely need reliability as this is skaven we're talking about. 

The spicy contribution of the screaming bell would have to be its unique spell: Cracks Call. It is absolutely a beast against heroes on foot, nurgle and stormcast. 

Edited by Riff_Raff_Rascal

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11 hours ago, Johnny Pestilens said:

Does that mean both models, the copy and original count as having the artifact? Naughty!

From the Chaos FAQ 1.4 Age of Sigmar. 

Q: If a Skaven Deathrunner is your general, or has an artefact
of power or a command trait, do these things apply to its
illusionary twin?
A: Yes.

Cunning Deceiver and Crown of Conquest is what I've played the last 5 games for an almost completely verminous army, just letting me spam the warlord's ability along with the Verminlord Warbringer. The Deathrunner also gets a net -2 to shoot it because of the new "look out sir" so keep em' as close as you want to those clan rats. I struggled so much with low bravery in the recent past. It hurts like hell. I say the new Crown of Conquest is the single greatest thing Mixed Skaven can get right now. This just might carry me all the way to the much needed Skaven battletome release down the road (rumored).

Edited by Riff_Raff_Rascal

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11 hours ago, AIdenNicol444 said:

Sadly Clanrats have to be taken as a group of either 20 or 40, but they're super cheap so it isn't a bother. Ally 1 or 2 groups of 40, or 3 groups of 20. As for the bell, it should still be 200pts, same as last edition?

You're right, I thought I'd read that it had gone up in points,but was mistaken. Mmm seems a bit swingy to rely on it and hope it'll summon the Verminking though. Fun if it does though haha

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1 hour ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

From the Chaos FAQ 1.4 Age of Sigmar. 

Q: If a Skaven Deathrunner is your general, or has an artefact
of power or a command trait, do these things apply to its
illusionary twin?
A: Yes.

Cunning Deceiver and Crown of Conquest is what I've played the last 5 games for an almost completely verminous army, just letting me spam the warlord's ability along with the Verminlord Warbringer. The Deathrunner also gets a net -2 to shoot it because of the new "look out sir" so keep em' as close as you want to those clan rats. I struggled so much with low bravery in the recent past. It hurts like hell. I say the new Crown of Conquest is the single greatest thing Mixed Skaven can get right now. This just might carry me all the way to the much needed Skaven battletome release down the road (rumored).

Sounds like a very cunning plan indeed! Will defo give the Crown of Conquest a go when i give my newly acquired Deathrunner a go :)

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Basically the way I view the Screaming Bell is for 200pts you get a 12 wound wizard with a spell that's pretty good and a command ability that can come in handy if you're spamming minimum size units. Ringing the bell is just an extra. Its basically always passable, and sometimes its hella powerful. Basically you dont really lose a point investment from the randomosity

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Just a thought, but has anyone noticed how amazing Skaven shooting is in the new rules? We've got direct mortal wound output in the form of lightning cannons and warpfire throwers. Do we care about Look Out Sir? Nope. Not too mention almost all of our magic just does mortal wounds. So hero sniping is still great. In 2K mix lists I'll still use the Skryre battalion with Arkspark Voltik x2 against certain armies. Its still 920 points but, hey, thats 4 lightning shots per turn, along with two more mortal wound spells you have in your army. 

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4 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Just a thought, but has anyone noticed how amazing Skaven shooting is in the new rules? We've got direct mortal wound output in the form of lightning cannons and warpfire throwers. Do we care about Look Out Sir? Nope. Not too mention almost all of our magic just does mortal wounds. So hero sniping is still great. In 2K mix lists I'll still use the Skryre battalion with Arkspark Voltik x2 against certain armies. Its still 920 points but, hey, thats 4 lightning shots per turn, along with two more mortal wound spells you have in your army. 

I agree, our access to unique spells that deal damage like unique spells on the Skryre Arch Warlock and Warlock Engineer, as well as some of the verminlords packing some decent spels leaves us unaffected by the arcan bolt nerf and so on. Also a good point on our shooting, he most infamous skaven shooting attacks (Stormfiends, Thanquol, Lightning Cannon) don't make conventional hit rolls which is a huge boost. Lastly we have Clan Pestilens and it's prayers that AREN'T subject to the rule of one, so AoE arcane bolts for everyone.

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Just want to point out that 2 grinder teams cost 480 points less than 2 warpgnaws, who dont even have a command ability and whose spell is now either kills one model with up to 6 wounds (which an engineer can do for 100 points) or does nothing.

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7 hours ago, Vaeron said:

Just want to point out that 2 grinder teams cost 480 points less than 2 warpgnaws, who dont even have a command ability and whose spell is now either kills one model with up to 6 wounds (which an engineer can do for 100 points) or does nothing.

yeah but that 5 damage though. And pick a cheap model, kill conga line, spell. oh and that sweet sweet 5+ fell no pain. Mmmhh, spicy. 

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On 7/11/2018 at 2:18 PM, Vaeron said:

Just want to point out that 2 grinder teams cost 480 points less than 2 warpgnaws, who dont even have a command ability and whose spell is now either kills one model with up to 6 wounds (which an engineer can do for 100 points) or does nothing.

Pretty glad I didn't buy one when it was the god of skaven cheese tactics like stormvermin rope and plague monk bombs running through terrain features, always used my Warpseer as a counts-as. Rest in peace Warpgnaw Verminlord 2015 - 2018

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I am absolutely tired of clanrats as my battleline for mixed Skaven. I generally use the Chaos Allegience for the new crown of conquest. I recently played a fully Pestilens army and wanted to take advantage of Plague Monks being battleline. Forgoing the Pestilens allegience, is there a way to have a Pestilens army, maintaining the monks as battleline and choose the Chaos Allegience? This is really a generic battleline question. I was wondering what other discussion thread might have tackled this issue. 

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9 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

I am absolutely tired of clanrats as my battleline for mixed Skaven. I generally use the Chaos Allegience for the new crown of conquest. I recently played a fully Pestilens army and wanted to take advantage of Plague Monks being battleline. Forgoing the Pestilens allegience, is there a way to have a Pestilens army, maintaining the monks as battleline and choose the Chaos Allegience? This is really a generic battleline question. I was wondering what other discussion thread might have tackled this issue. 

of course there is my friend, you literally just say its using the chaos allegiance. You don't have to take pestilens allegiance abilities to have battleline monks, your army just needs to be pestilens allegiance (all non allies have the PESTILENS keyword).

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Well, it worked like that in AoS1.0, but right now it's not that obvious. In the Free Cities topic there was a discussion about new wording in the core rules.and until new FAQ we really can't be sure if  you can use "Battleline-if" units with GA allegiance.

 

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Sad news everyone, Deathrunner shenanigans are dead as described in the updated erratta for the Silver Tower warscrolls

Skaven Deathrunner, Illusory Twin Change to: ‘When this Skaven Deathrunner is set up, place both of its Skaven Deathrunner models on the battlefield. They do not need to be within 1" of each other. When one of these Skaven Deathrunner models attacks or uses an ability, command trait or artefact of power, then the other model is removed from play. If one of these Skaven Deathrunner models is slain, roll a dice. On a 1-3, the other model is removed from play. On a 4+, the other model is not removed from play.’

 

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On 7/18/2018 at 6:42 PM, michu said:

Well, it worked like that in AoS1.0, but right now it's not that obvious. In the Free Cities topic there was a discussion about new wording in the core rules.and until new FAQ we really can't be sure if  you can use "Battleline-if" units with GA allegiance.



 

Check today's FAQ. If you don't have a faction allegiance you can be faction (for battleline if) and still use general allegiance abilities

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