VBS

Really glad you guys like it! If such little amount of changes make the game enjoyable, it shows that having an exciting aos skirmish format could have been easy. A shame gw never cared. So it goes.

I disagree with all the narrative vs competitive antagonism. As with most things, it serves for a close minded white/black explanation, a shortcuts to a simple conclusion that doesn't really work if you think a bit more in depth. Because... what is narrative in wargames? Is it opposed to the so-perceived competitive approach? These are not separate entities, they complement each other. It is perfectly possible to play a complex campaign with loads of fluff to give a narrative framework all whilst using netlists for competitive games. It is also possible to play a game with no narrative background per se yet introducing thematic elements through custom scenarios, home-rules, etc.... It is also possible to assist to a tournament, with all the official rules, rigidity and share of netlisters, bringing a fluffy list revolving around your general's epic saga. All these are just a few examples where you clearly have narrative and competitive elements mixed. Narrative games vary wildly depending on the person and the objective. Same thing can be said about competitive games. Where do you draw the line between both? It really is not clear. There a many many thousands of wargaming players around the globe with different approaches to the hobby. So is there an authority who decides which camp you belong to? Some ten commandments to blindly follow if you want to belong to one group or the other? I don't get it when some posters say "narrative players do X" or "competitive players are Y". As for online presence, I think it boils down to simple interest to engage in conversations and debates in general. To quote myself from a previous topic: For wargaming in general, I think narrative sections will always be in the shadow of the "official" way of doing things (unless it's historicals). Your average creative player/collector will often be found in his man-cave, garage or small gaming group, paying little attention to online toy soldier opinions as the topics discussed will rarely add value. On the contrary, I think it is quite obvious that people interested in crunching numbers, netlisting and chasing the meta will want to engage in endless discussions over the internet, as it offers a way wider public and immediate responses, enriching their particular interest in discussing numbers. Such access is more complicated IRL so turning towards the online world makes it easier, as with many other topics and hobbies. YMMV as many, if not most, wargamers are somewhere in between (that's the whole point of this post!), but comparing the sheer number of posts per section across multiple wargaming forums seems to make this explanation quite reasonable.

The squatting in CoS was disappointing, but we can now give old models some rules without going full homebrew. So this guy I painted last year has rules for my CoS project.

A while back, I hastily adapted to AoS the WHFB 500p. games you mention: You might find it useful. It mainly adapts army building and has custom battleplans with different objectives. Best used for fun, not min/max in mind.

If you mean playing a rank&file wargames , I'm currently into Conquest: The Last Argument of Kings. Game system is very solid, miniatures and lore gorgeous. I still have the option of KoW and WHFB 6th, both are fairly active (depends on where you are of course) and always great fun. As for AoS, I dropped it since finishing my army. It was enjoyable at first, for what it was, but I can't find a reason to return despite trying. I have yet to read an enticing book, the game has evolved too much into ccg-combo/roll buckets of dice for my taste, and the miniature design in the last couple of years has been less and less appealing to me. I am aware this is an AoS forum but I hope a non 100% pro-aos opinion is acceptable. I wouldn't mind dusting off the models if things became more interesting in the future or if I could find a like-minded gaming group (more creative, less competitive).

Tbh, you can more or less guess the answer to all those questions just by looking into their business model (where are there stores located, sales % around the globe, etc...) and understanding how basic demographics work ( @Kyriakin gave a good hint). Add a little research such as reading their annual report. Heck, it's clearly state what donations they make (spoiler alert: none). On top of that, see what consequences might occur if JP Morgan or BlackRock saw the miniatures company using funds to make sociological studies instead of churning out even more money. Or make announcements that could could imply legal complications such as actively recruiting a specific type of person instead of the usual "recruits and employs staff regardless of gender identity, sexual orientation, race, religious, cultural and ethnic backgrounds or disabilities", etc... It's quite simple to understand.

I wouldn't consider prices to be the reason that made me stop buying GW products, but it is a factor. A minor one probably. There are more minis/hobby/wargaming companies than ever (a true golden age) and it gets to a point that others are doing more interesting things than GW (imo, of course). So I'm more inclined in buying non-GW models simply because I prefer them way more. If they are cheaper (which is the case 99% of the time), well that's a sweet bonus. Same goes for gaming systems: I find other games to be more enjoyable and don't require constant book recycling (some of them are even in free-pdf format, great!). I guess my purchasing habits just evolved along my tastes, beyond what GW offers, which is no longer worth it for me. The price is more of an underlying annoyance that deters things even more but not a deal breaker by itself (I have other hobbies that are waaay more expensive...). However, I do draw the line of pricing for painting material. If I can get pots that cost less and have more quantity than Citadel products, yet have similar quality (or sometimes even better), no point in giving money to geedub in that department. Never liked brand loyalty for anything.

Well, whfb always offered the possibility to go very high/low fantasy and anything in-between. Varied from games and editions but it was varied enough for everyone to accommodate their own individual vision of the Old World. You could go from extremes of super-magic everywhere (storm of magic) to quasi-historical battles (that old WD article that explained how to recreate low fantasy lists by leaving out wizards, magic items, monsters, etc...). I think it's safe to say that giving that liberty in a setting made it attractive and is still part of its great popularity. From what I've read/heard, I think the concern for some people with TOW is if it ends up being 8th cracked up to 11. Basically: massive emphasis on the super magical aspects. Obviously, I consider it too early to jump to conclusions but for now we have only seen magic-weapon-guards and war-bears. Rather high-fantasy ended, but this can be addressed by kossars/winged lancers for Kislev, for example. What I basically mean is that a lot of people would be happy if TOW retained that balance and flexibility the old whfb offered, and not push a particular direction within the fantasy-themed spectrum. m2c of course.

I try to keep the pile of shame low, but there is always some. The consequences of switching between projects, I guess! For all the folks that are drowning in sprues and have rooms full of untouched boxes, if you don't have the will to control impulsive purchases, I'd recommend one simple thing: at least unsprue the minis. This step is really fast (don't bother in cleaning/removing mold lines for now) and get rid of the box and sprue. You save a lot of storage and psychologically, reducing 90% of the space it takes really helps to keep you motivated (it's no longer a mountain of boxes twice your size...). That's what I do. Unsprue and arrange in small bags until I get them done. A huge box with a load of sprues (pic1) suddenly becomes a "small" amount of plastic (1/5 of original size) that seems fairly reasonable to go through (pic2):

Sooooo AoS28. I painted this SCE I had lying around to try out a paint scheme. Wanted something grim, testing some paints on the metal for a dark look. Would have preferred it to look MORE grimdark, but this will do.

Those massive helmets could easily snap their neck. So goofy. The models vastly improve without the cow theme (below, from reddit/dakka).

It's Specialist Studio. So most likely following the same formula as Middle Earth, Blood Bowl, Necromunda,... Plastic unit kits on GW site + resin characters on FW site. Also, Age Of The Three Emperors period seems more or less confirmed by this comment of the AoS FB Page: This article might give you a hint what time The Old World plays in *link to the previous article* Kislev was founded during this time.

I'm ok with Kislev being back. Still have some good ol' kossars and winged lancers. This could be interesting if they concentrate on the uncharted/less common areas of the Old World: Kislev, Nippon, Cathai, Albion, Araby, etc... The art reminds me of Sisters of Avelorn. I could do without the magical ice bits, but let's see where it goes. No info about game format/scale yet, maybe something else on the weekend previews? Surely they must have at least decided by now.

IDK are the new Dark Elves. Left alone in the dark whining about Teclis being a bad boi. Can't wait till Malekith shows up a teaches those pesky water elves who is the true master crybaby with daddy/mommy issues.

Thank for the extra unofficial infos @RuneBrush. Im eager for more news, hopefully adepticon will show they already have some meat on the project. As for the scale or type of models, one can only guess the consequences. Its impossible to control what everyone wants and how they enjoy their toys. So a compatibility between TOW and AOS models can very well mean a cut on sales if someone decides to drop one in favour of the other. Similarly, it could also increase sales if that person sees value in using models accross multiple systems (it is my case ) and buys even more (ex: instead of just having 1 army for each separately, I might directly buy 3 armies knowing that I can use them regardless and have more value in variety and compatibility). So you never know! Plus, I suspect GW is just happy if you throw them your money, regardless of the game you play. I dont see them complaining about the huge amount of KoW or T9A players that use AoS/WHFB models, so this should be no different IF it is actually the same scale. Moreso, it might suck out players from those systems back into the GW-R&F world instead of looking at other companies. I'd be fine too if they went 6-10-15mm anyway, I might simply buy less stuff if it were the case.

To answer your questions: They did the same for Slaves To Darkness back in 2018 (I think?). Along other STD merch such as a mug or tshirt (that was cool!). I wrote GW to see if they could at least make it available through online order to GW stores for us suckers far from WHW, but they said no. Exclusive WHW and limited run only. Thank you GW. If you cant find someone to get you a copy, there is FB group called "40k warhammer and general wargames trip loot sharing" that can maybe help you. I dont use FB but on Dakkadakka there is a guy who also contributes to the group (check the news thread about this topic there). I'd love to get the physical copies, as the books are amaaaazing but I cant be bothered with this exclusivity nonsense and seeking an unknown person just to grab a freaking book. I found digital copies since, and thats enough I guess.

There was an interview with R. Priestley were he mentioned that plans for making massive changes to the old world since the end of 7th ed. And that he wrote about advancing the timeline with Karl Franz getting murdered and the Empire wrecked by a Nurgle invasion. Ironically, it was considered too extreme back then Those ideas were later recycled into Tamurkhan as an alternative series (also cancelled). So it is safe to assume that during 8th (2009-2010 onward) they were already working on big changes, whether it was an initial version of AoS or a 9th edition with heavy modifications. Or possibly the later first, and then getting scraped for the former somewhere along those 5 years.

Yes, the Manfred point of view is interesting and clearly shows in how he refers to some of the characters... For some reason I thought the book would resemble more an old grimoire with crazy necromantic artwork and stuff (leaving out the gibberish!). Closer to a study on the undead, sort of like the creepy artwork found in the 6th ed VC (my favorite undead book): I should also pay more attention to new releases. The Genevieve series are indeed re-released! Still prefer an omnibus for convenience.... About TOW: Hoping we'll get a news schedule or something next time they mention it, with punctual updates every 5-6 months for example. I bet there will be further news at Adepticon since it is supposed to be the biggest and best preview ever (so certainly at least a little bit for every GW game?).

I've recently read Liber Necris and loved it. A bit too short, could have been developed much more. But I liked how it delves into details not found in other sources, like the Vashanesh figure (even if at times, it contradicts previous fluff ). I now started Blood on the Reik, can't think of a better book to get into the Old World mood! Also got The Life of Sigmar on the waiting list. I think these purely background books publications by Black Library are their true gems, more than the novels. Fascinating stuff. Regarding novels, I'd love if they re-published Genevieve The Vampire just because an omnibus is so much more convenient than tracking down 4 out of print books. Maybe at some point in the Warhammer Horror line it could fit.

I've been trying out new ways to paint, trying to give a more grim/blanchitsu(?) look to my minis that otherwise look very bright with the base layer/wash/highlight1+2+3 approach. So for the first time, I did zenithal priming + only washes, building many many layers. Love the result and it speeds up painting. Don't think the picture does justice to all the nuances on the mini, but it looks properly grimdark! Building a whole warband like this, but I might alternate with only glazes + the magical Streaking Grime for even more grimness

I agree about the DIY approach. I think we can find this in other wargames that are more "open" in terms of miniatures and/or rules, either asking gamers to have a little bit of imagination or simply being deliberately vague (perfect example: Warlords of Erehwon). Probably more prevalent in rpgs though, I think tabletop wargaming actually moves in the opposite direction for some reason.... With time, I tend to gravitate more towards such "open" view of the hobby as I know that a game held by a company obsessed with controlling and locking everything behind their way is going to lead to disappointment at some point in the future (AoS is often like this, unfortunately...). It is a perfectly legitimate business model, but since I mainly care about having fun when dealing with little soldiers, I tend to see myself pushed towards a certain niche within a niche. I think if one doesn't condition their enjoyment to what companies or other fellow hobbyists do, it makes your time dedicated to toy soldiers nicer. This can apply to many many other things. I also find such mentality leads to healthier groups, there is less tension and uncertainty (often source of negativity, visceral whining and yada yada yada). For example, I said I'll be building a Tomb Kings army without even knowing if the scale will be 28mm or if they will even be included in TOW. I'm not doing this because TOW will be out in 3+ years but because I simply want to, regardless of the TOW outcome. If I can later use it, fantastic!! Otherwise, it's not like there are least 3 other gaming systems that I like that could accommodate them or just appreciate the process of building a painting cool miniatures. Bottom line is that the problem isn't what others do, but your attitude towards it. Of course it's easier and more comforting to just blame a company for making business decisions you don't like but then you'll have to suck it up and be a sad panda because - newsflash - they don't care about your opinion.

It'd be nice if we could stick to the TGA policy of not posting if it's only to be recurringly negative and not even bothering to engage in a conversation. As for myself, I think I'll make a Tomb King army (like everyone else, right? ). I'll be getting models from the Desert of the Dead KS which will make a perfect base. That's hoping it will be a 28mm game. Wouldn't mind though if they made it 15 or 10mm, it's a scale that I never got into but find appealing. As long as TOW is something completely new and distinct from everything else, I'll be happy. Might be surprising, but I've seen many whfb groups meet the announcement with hostility, thinking it may affect "their game" (for the record, whfb 6th ed is still very strong in this area of the planet). Funny as it's the same reaction certain AoS folks had. Think about it, the impossible happened: TOW, bringing AoS and WHFB fans together against GW.

Random guy in 2015: - GW secrecy is bad, I want to know! - GW blew up the Old World to protect their IP. - You can still play WHFB (without official support), no one forces you to like AoS. Random Guy in 2019: - GW revealing their plans years ahead is bad, why would I want to know? - GW is bringing back the Old World to protect their IP. - You can still play AoS (with official support), no one forces you to like WHFB. GW: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (I just want your money)

Quite exciting! I'm interested to see what basis they will use for the rules... a 9th ed? a best-of edition? or even better, a 6th redux ? Since it will be 30k-fantasy I'm expecting to have a setting within a specific "important events" timeframe such the Great War Against Chaos or to have multiple chapters such as I) War of the Beard II) Nagash's Rise III) War of the Three Emperors ,etc.... with a big campaign book for each. Either way, I hope they release special characters similar to the Primarchs/SM heroes in 30k to go along. Having Aenarion or Engra Deathsword minis would be beyond awesome! It's also worth mentioning that FW probably already has some material they could eventually use if aiming for such thing, after the Tamurkhan book and the never released Black Fire Pass: I wouldn't really want it to be a simple regular new edition, as Warhammer Fantasy is doing pretty great in many places without the support of GW, not to mention the many alternatives (T9A, KoW, etc...). So it'd be nice if this thing really brought something new to the table. Also, I don't get the doom&gloom. The Mortal Realms ain't blowing up. This ain't "replacing anything". AoS is probably the most supported GW game ever. I doubt you won't be able to play one, the other or both, as you wish. The situation described here is very very different compared to 4 years ago so there is no need to be so negative.

Seems like unanimous praise for the new models. I think this shows the potential of simply updating awesome old miniatures with the latest technology instead of going full crazy weird concepts that are much more polarizing, for a reason. Also, I bet it was much easier to make as it's basically revamping models, rather than design from the ground. I love the old Warriors and 6th ed Knights (they were menacing as ****, as it should be) but these models really do justice to the glorious Chaos! Must admit these will most likely be the first AoS-era models I buy. Hats off, GW.