Dave Fraser

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67 Celestant-Prime

About Dave Fraser

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  1. I was thinking it looked quite attractive in a khorne list. You can put the +1 to hit from slaughterpriest and that improves the shooting and combat hit roll. Bloodsecrator banner for +1 to all the combat attacks. Just feels like it adds a lot to the model. Problem is a Bloodthirster isn't too many more points and you're trading off a bit of survivability for greater damage output and the quintisential khorne model which is a tough call.
  2. I've seen Kurnoth hunters being used.
  3. Don't care about cut-off particularly, what I think is needed for teams to properly formulate lists is: 1. Confirmation of the army selection - Done 2. Confirmation of the scenarios - O/S 3. Confirmation of how scenarios will get chosen/assigned to games - O/S 4. How the scoring will work - O/S Until we know those it's not really feasible to realistically start to work up the armies across the whole team in a meaningful manner, if there isn't enough time on this we basically end up with 8 players bringing their singles events lists and playing together rather than any cohesive team planning. I should add I've now had to drop out of playing so if you want me to help out with any of the admin in advance (I won't be there on the weekend) I'm happy to lend a hand.
  4. Spawn aren't included in the points at the back of the khorne book which would appear to support this though it's speculative at best. I'd considered having a spawn to then damage twice with slaughterpriests in the hope of it dying to immediately generate 3 tithe points too but then I figured just having prayers which gave other buffs would be more reliable and the tithe table is just the cherry on top instead of the objective of the prayers.
  5. Agree on this, and actually it highlights the main difference in playstyle between the two. Ironjaws - Typically running the ironfist you have a few infantry units who're more than capable of traversing the board and getting charges off in turn 1, combine that with a load of buffs to hit rolls and you have some reasonably reliable damage output with rend 1 and a decent number of attacks. So quite mobile and good at attacking in their own turn (note warchanters buffs only the Orruk turn not until next hero phase). 2-3 wound models with a 4+ save across the board makes them quite survivable but they are vulnerable to being battleshocked off if they lose a few models. Bloodbound - You have a choice of a few different builds, primarily defined by whether you're restricting yourself to pure bloodbound (why) or Khorne. Pure bloodbound gives you the option of mass cheap bodies with no save (reavers) or good all rounders in Blood warriors with the amazing ability to still do something when they get killed in combat.. What makes bloodbound tick is the buffs again. This time it's all about volume of attacks & overloading opponents by dice and here's where I feel the big difference comes in I think bloodbound are a far better defensive army than offensive. You set the units up to force your opponent to charge into your bloodwarriors or stand off you and you buff them up to the max. When they're throwing out 4-5 attacks each when they fight and again when you kill them they can do a lot of damage even against opponents with good saves. The banners also give them the protection against battleshock so dying isn't really a significant downside! Mix the bloodbound with Khorne Daemons and you get a MW output through the bloodletters and now you have the ability to counter attack or to push aggressively at an opponent. So while both are more or less pure combat armies they play quite differently on the table in my opinion with Bloodbound being a great counterpunch army vs Ironjaws being best when getting aggressively across the board and choosing their fights. That said facing a shooting army bloodbound are far slower and will suffer more than ironjaws who innately have more wounds with decent saves and are far quicker to traverse the table. So bloodbound need to think of how to get to grips with a shooting army or will be in greater difficulty than an ironjaws army.
  6. Try having kids. Not just kidnapping some but your own ones, that you have to feed & clothe and entertain and generally look after. Bloody time-sinks. Anyway... I don't suffer hobby burn out very often despite being an incessant hobbiest so must mean I've found something that works for me. 1. Always have a fully painted army available for any systems you play, never sell out completely. This means you can game without the pressure of having to paint for an event. 2. Don't restrict yourself to a single army project. AoS is great for this, you can do a unit here or there to bolt together as a single force. Obviously depends on your GA of choice death & destruction you'll struggle. 3. Paint what you want when you feel like it. This year I've painted order, death, chaos & destruction units & guildball. And this has been quite a focussed year for me so far. 4. You don't have to paint everything to the same standard. I paint some armies to a tabletop standard and generally paint my skirmish games to a far greater level. 5. Paint models just for painting them. This more than anything is what keeps me ticking along. If everything is for the next army & 'chasing the meta' then it's not fun. I have been working on a GUO that I pick up and add to every so often over the last 3 months. I already have one so don't see why I'd ever need it but it's a lovely model and I'm enjoying doing it. 6. Consider your work/life balance. Is 2 podcasts a sensible use of your time? Do you enjoy it enough to make doing both better than what else you could do with your time? What about other activities, I'm quite bad for not really doing anything else at the moment but I have a bunch of other things I like to do that could replace some wargames time if I'm not loving it. In short, don't force yourself to do something you should enjoy and turn it into a chore/unpaid job, that only creates resentment and will sour it for you.
  7. Been a little lazy with updates. Still been churning away at stuff. A few death models so I have the full (now repointed) TK lists as GW models so I could run it at heat 2. After that hat I have gone back to chaos and added a few characters and then started work on a bloodbound contingent. Only 500pts so far but will grow it out.
  8. Thanks.
  9. WDTFPS... (What Does The Forum Post Say) oh, oh it says 1 March.
  10. So AoS has been with us for 18+ months now, most of the rage has gone and everyone is just getting on with enjoying playing whichever game they settled on. Now GW have given the AoS community it’s first big tester in the form of a new Stormcast book. Everyone (slight exaggeration, nearly everyone) who had been playing SC had settled into the comfortable Warrior Brotherhood & Azyros formation to drop on top of you and kill what they liked. It was powerful, though not all conquering and I found it frustrating because it shaped the whole way people had to build their lists. With the new book having been spoiled all across the internet this week we have a fairly good idea how the book has changed and on the whole it looks like they’ve tried to move away from that which I think is probably good for the game as a whole. It looks like with the formations which are there we should see a lot of options for different types of build which should make them a more fun and varied army to build and play (with & against). What I’ve seen of the online reaction is there isn’t too much rage. There are a few people who have just bought the WB setup and are disappointed that they’ve missed the opportunity to filth it up but on the whole it seems to be considered a positive thing. This morning the delightful AoS Daily (Bad Dice daily) by Ben Curry talked about an event where players have the choice to run the old or new book as it’s just next week and he’s only really got the WB build painted so this led me to looking about how you could run it effectively under the new book and actually I think there is a list which will run close enough. For those that don’t know the WB setup ben has been running: 2x Azyros (normally) 3x5 liberators 2x5 judicators 2x10 Protectors (paladins) 1x9 Prosecutors with Javelins Warrior Brotherhood formation As the Azyros no longer gives the ability to drop inside 9” it’s relatively less useful these days so ben was looking for alternative characters. With the many many items, abilities, monster special stuff it looks like there is a way to stack those on a Celestant on Dracoth to make him fairly punchy so feels like a decent little smashy unit and he’s reasonably survivable so good for 3 places of power too. Next up is the cheaper end of the scale because you still need to fit into 2000pts and keeping most of the army the same means not too many points left over. I was looking at a Lord Relictor because the new prayers in the book seem like a really useful set of buffs to have available and he’s cheap, if you could squeeze the points a little then the Veritant would be a good option too as he gains a wound, damage 2 and the dispelling ability for 40pts that’s worth it but all depends on whether you can squeeze it in or not as points get tight. For the main list there is one formation that I feel is core for retaining the WB style list in the form of the Hammerstrike Force: 9 Prosecutors with Javelins 10 Protectors 10 Protectors This allows the protectors to drop inside 6” of the prosecutors, so overcoming the 9” bubble from the enemy in the style previously achieved through Warrior Brotherhood & Azyros combo. You then just need to fill out the battleline requirement which could be 3 units of judicators or if you wanted more bodies 2 judicators, 2 liberators can be squeezed in. That gave me a list of: Celestant on Dracoth 220 Lord Relictor 80 2 x 5 Liberators 200 2 x 5 Judicators 320 1 x 9 Prosecutors 240 2 x 10 Protectors 800 Hammerstrike Force 120 Total: 1980 An alternative to move this back to a single drop formation would be to wrap it all back in one of the specific chambers, in this case the Celestial Vindicators which requires 1+ Hammerstrike Force but requires 3 paladin units over 2. Celestant on Dracoth 220 Lord Veritant 120 2 x 5 Judicators 320 1 x 5 Liberators 100 1 x 9 Prosecutors 240 1 x 10 Protectors 400 2 x 5 Protectors 400 Hammerstrike Force 120 Celestial Vindicators 80 Total: 2000 What this lacks over the current Warrior Brotherhood is the ability to hold off dropping until the turn you choose, you can do it with the protectors but the rest of the army is either dropping on a 3+ roll each turn using the general stormcast ability or it is starting on the table.
  11. I didn't really mean they were overpriced, more that they fell into the category of hard hitters. With the revised pricing they're at the top end of about right. Basically you can't get anything in death that hits hard for under 240 other than vargheists and they're only 'reasonably' choppy.
  12. What makes death competitive is the fact that they grind so well. Unless you're utterly tanked in combat battleshock isn't overly an issue with Bravery 10 across the board. Army wide ward save Models get back up in many units due to banner/abilities summoning back into units/then just standing back up with FEC abilities What does this mean? Well, I think it means they're very good at objective play. However there are limitations to this: no matter how many bodies you have it's no use on some scenarios were 1 model can contest It's not much use where you need characters to score as a rule a lot of the survivable options aren't terribly fast so capturing far flung objectives can be tricky (Summoning, subject to rule restrictions on objective capture, can help with this) holding your own objectives isn't the be all and end all you need to be able to capture opposing ones which means some hard hitters What's needed to make them a competitive list: They lack the ability to drop en-masse like Sylvaneth, Stormcasts and Sayl or the ability to traverse the board in a turn of destruction. So chaff screens/bubble wrapping are important which means cheap chaff. Fortunately death have that in spades Some form of hard hitter. This can take a few forms, most obviously are the characters but it's worth noting that generally these are the easiest parts to kill in a death list. Outside the characters there are a few options but they often feel overpriced (Blood knights, vargheists, necropolis knights) The right buffs to turn their meh units into reasonable ones Some form of consistent mortal wound output (without this I think Sylvaneth turn into a bogey army as you simply can't kill the hunters) One part I've not said is an essential but I think is a major selling point for death is the flexibility of a summoning pool. They are able to tailor their list to any given game more so than most other armies, I think this is an undervalued strength.
  13. I think you're probably not as rare as you may feel on finding AoS appealing for it's more streamlined nature. As an older gamer myself (25+ years) I absolutely love it too. The impact of 2 small children on my gaming time means I value not having to spend hours reading rules and being able to just pick up and play with a focus on the tactical elements on the game far more enjoyable. I've been working on flipping my armies from square bases onto rounds for AoS and now have 1 for each of the Grand Alliances available to push around the table and I'm now able to work on adding bits here and there. So what did I do, of course I picked a completely different sub faction of chaos I've not got any models for at present and decided to paint a full 2000pts force. I'm heading to heat 2 so probably not going to have finished it in time for that so just going to push around something out my current collection for fun and see how games go rather than worrying about pushing through the latest project, obviously not a possibility for you. Good luck on the painting.
  14. Wish mine would do that. I put it into a archmage on dragon and died! overall the points costs feel ever so slightly high, whether that is an intentional thing to reflect availability or just taking feedback from the likes of russ veal who knows. My first view on seeing the prices was toys out the pram, an hour later I was writing lists by last night I had 2 still pretty hard lists I was happy with. I also think hunk there are good TK lists that don't rely on snakes & sphinxes that are basically untouched by the changes so I'm happy I can still run them too. If I were to go unit by unit: settra - about right, he's a beast in combat, buffs the whole army and is fairly survivable. With 3+,5+,6+ royal warsphinx - not sure I'd take him at current price. Same as vamp lord on ZD who puts out the hurt, is a wizard and has healing abilities inbuilt. Or agk on TG/ZD for similar reasons but cheaper. Nercrosphinx - it's not a big bump, was good, still good necropolis knights - maybe right, maybe 20 too much. Compare them to retributors and they grow back but die slightly more easily to shooting and out out less MW damage but more regular damage. They're both slower & faster depending on 1 off teleport vs regular move round the board. Catapult. - didn't see any need to increase them. 1 shot on 4+,3+ rend 1, 4 damage. I guess gobbo bolt throwers are about the same but don't have the bravery or LoS ignoring ability but higher rend and potential damage spike. Instead I'd have increased the necrotect cost as a force multiplier, it's him stood between two that made them efficient, they've made it an all or nothing decision now to me. 140 fine, 160 a bit pricy unless you fully commit to them. the points increase means I drop the royal sphinx, that frees up most of the points leaving me about 120 pts over on the 12 snakes & 2 catapults list of the masters. Which is 1 character so guess that character won't be a huge miss and can still run the list, or drop a catapult. Hurts for 3 places of power but list still good at everything else
  15. FLGS running a slow grow and was planning on running death for it and painted up these guys. Now having a wobble though so might be switching to chaos.