scrubyandwells

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Posts posted by scrubyandwells


  1. 1 hour ago, swarmofseals said:

    Now that I've digested more of the changes, I have very mixed feelings. On the one hand I generally like the points adjustments. I think they are a little bit of a net nerf for Sylvaneth in the context of everything else but not a severe one. I do wish they had taken a bit more care in balancing specific battalions. Gnarlroot is still the obvious choice (or the Dreadwood Alphastrike if that's your thing), while unused battalions like Winterleaf aren't any more attractive now. Meanwhile other top tier battalions like Kunnin' Rukk simply went up by the same flat increase as everything else.  

    The thing that I really don't like are the allies. I have no idea why Sylvaneth have such restricted allies when there are a bunch of factions that can take Sylvaneth as allies. Sylv is already such a small faction. Are there any Stormcast things worth taking? I'm not as familiar with SCE, but my impression is that most of their stuff is good because of internal synergies that probably won't work in the context of allies. Wanderers are OK, I guess -- I could see taking some of the heroes for ranged support or maybe some Sisters of the Thorn. The most attractive unit in that roster to me is the Eternal Guard, but they function so similarly to Dryads that I don't really see the point. 

    I'll fully admit that some of this is personal disappointment because I've long wanted to take a Frostheart Phoenix in my Sylvaneth list, but without Phoenix Temple as allies and with Winterleaf costing a staggering 310 points I just don't see it happening. 

    ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    On a different note, I have a few tentative predictions. I see a lot of people focusing on alpha strike lists, and while I don't dismiss the possibility that such lists could be good, I think that there will be a general trend towards armies being bulkier with more wounds shoved into fewer points. The massive regiment rules really encourage that. I already think that hordes would have made a pretty reasonable counter to the GHB 1.0 metagame, and with heavy ranged damage becoming less efficient and chaff becoming more efficient I think we're even more likely to see that play out. Alpha Strike lists are great against opponents who have a lot of points shoved into key pieces that you can realistically take out on turn 1 or 2. They are going to struggle against opponents who either have enough chaff to keep you from getting at the good bits or who simply have no key locuses of points and can just absorb your initial hit with sheer numbers.

    Instead, consider the possibilities presented by our new roster. A 30 strong Dryad unit is really tough to move. You can almost guarantee proximity to a Wyldwood because you have enough bodies to create a nice balloon string. That gives you 9 point models with a 4+ armor save and -1 to hit. In Magical Christmas Land you can drop a huge Wyldwood on an objective, fill it with a 30 strong Dryad unit, and give it mystic shield. With TLA command you're looking at 2+ rerolling 1's and -1 to hit. Opponents are going to really struggle to dislodge that unit. Offensively Dryads aren't great, but they are quite good against chaff (which I expect to see more of!). So if 30 Dryads are a tough nut to crack and extremely tough if they somehow all squeeze into a Wyldwood, imagine how painful it would be to face something like 120-150 Dryads. These numbers are very doable. I mean, if you really wanted to go ham you could squeeze 210 dryads into a 2k point list.

    One strategy that I think could be quite effective is to create hardpoints using a Treelord or TLA enveloped by 30 Dryads either inside a Wyldwood or balloon stringing to one. This gives you -1 to hit with shooting and -1 to -2 in combat, good armor, and the Treelord can reach over two rows of Dryads and still hit the opponent without them being able to retaliate.

    If you need a second artefact, I think running a simple Household could actually be an attractive option. The no-retreat rule could actually be very relevant in helping you get 2 out of 3 objectives early.

    Anyway, I doubt many people will be rushing to field triple digit Dryads -- but I do think it's a potentially very powerful strategy to consider. 

    Great write up.

    I hear ya on the Frostheart Phoenix...was at the top of my list (...had a "Jadeheart Phoenix" planned out and everything).

    Sunday was pretty jarring, mainly because there's signs pointing toward the main concern I had coming true: that sylvaneth proper will have to become a Dryads-horde army to be sufficiently viable at tournaments.

    It's definitely too early to know, though,...personally just starting to look at potential new lists, look at other factions and see how much of a hit they took, and look at a bunch of other variables.

    In general, we're still dealing with quite limited information. I'm hopeful in a couple of weeks, we'll be more optimistic, and in two months, we'll be a lot more optimistic. Hopefully.

    In terms of Stormcast, I did a minisode the other day looking at SCE as allies for us. I think there's a lot to like and expect we'll see a lot of sylvaneth builds at tournies running some SCE allies.

    One thing I may have underrated in the episode was Vanguard Raptors w/ Hurricane Crossbows as an anti-horde option.

    I thought Dan Street @ AoS Shorts summarized the situation well recently: "Anti-horde output, mortal wound output and cheap but resilient 5 wound buff heroes is what we lack & can supplement with allies." 

    SCE can help us with all three.

    At the moment, I'm mostly concerned about our capacity to compete vs certain horde lists, like 120-150 fast-moving Bloodletters via Murderhost w/ plenty of room left over for heroes (Bloodsecrator, Bloodstoker, etc.). And horde lists with extremely high wound count could be very difficult as well.

    It also looks like Kharadron Zilfin w/ Endrinrigger and/or Skywarden spam (especially the former) is still going to be quite potent and cripple a lot of builds in the first round before they've done anything. That's another one where horde-Dryads would help, but personally I didn't get into sylvaneth to play a horde army, so the idea of putting a mass of Dryads on the table isn't appealing.


  2. Just now, Mirage8112 said:

    Are you referring to the point increases? They are quite steep, but truthfully I hadn't considered how undercosted the battalions actually were. Now that I think about it, the new points make it much more risk/reward appropriate. 

    Yeah. Just lots of new variables to consider, which is both exciting and unnerving. My 2K army, though, was blown up. It's now 2,280pts. That happened to a lot of armies and players. It was a painful pill to swallow, but it's done. Time to learn, adapt, and move forward. 

    1 person likes this

  3. 14 minutes ago, Mirage8112 said:

    Looks like the plan is still on. thoughts?  

    Thanks for the breakdown. 

    Still reeling from the battalion a-bomb that dropped today, affecting a very large # of players/armies/factions. 

    It's a new reality for many of us, including, I suspect, a lot of matched play sylvaneth players. 

    Going to take it slow and try to wrap my head around everything. Pretty dizzying at the moment. 

    1 person likes this

  4. 6 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

    OK Ladies and Gentlemen, we finally have some more solid news on Sylvaneth. This comes from https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/2333, this person clearly has the GHB in hand so I see no reason to doubt his info. From the comments section:

    "dryad -20 and full stack discount
    Discount on big stuff & troops
    increase on ranged stuff"

    and in another comment response he mentioned that Kurnoths were "+40"

    This gives us at least something to go on. While I'm a little disappointed that Kurnoths are going +40 instead of +20 (FWIW Skyfires also appear to be +40), I think there is a real chance that the changes will be offset elsewhere for all but the most spammy Kurnoth lists. 

    I'm a big fan of Dryads and pretty stoked at the discount there. I'd be shocked if revenants didn't also drop. Discounts to "big stuff" could mean anything, but a price reduction for the treelord would be very welcome. I'd be surprised to see Durthu, TLA, Drycha, or big A drop but it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility. 

    Of course now we need to know about allies, too. I think we can pencil Wanderers and SCE in without question, but beyond that who knows. I'd certainly love to see the High Aelf factions included but that's just wishcasting. 

     

    As an aside, to address the Kurnoth Hunters nerf: I think we need to consider how above par Kurnoths were. As part of my project in calculating the offensive and defensive efficiency of the entire roster of GA: Death, I calculated a bunch of non-death units as comparison points. Among them were Kurnoth Hunters. Just a few words about my methodology:

      Reveal hidden contents

    I calculated both defensive and offensive efficiency. For defensive efficiency I calculated the points-per-effective wound against rend 0, 1, 2 and mortal attacks. For units like Kurnoths I did calculations for special rules as well, such as separate sets of numbers for with the thicket ability used and without. A higher number in this case is worse.

    For offense, I attempted to create a single statistic that will allow us to compare overall damage efficiency across different types of rend. Basically, I came up with a broad estimate of how often each armor save shows up and then calculated a comparative effectiveness of each rend/mortal type against each armor save. I used those two pieces of information to create a relative weight for each rend/mortal type that gives a sense of how good that damage is overall against a broad variety of opponents. Rend 1 has a weight of 1.33, rend 2 is 1.66, and mortals are 2.16. While these numbers are estimates, I strongly believe that they are close to correct. If anything there may be a slight bias against rend 2+, but I think it's only slight. Of course, against a known opponent the weights will be different because you know what armor saves you will be facing.

    So overall on offense I calculated the expected wounds output for each damage type and then multiplied each one by the above-listed weights, summed them, and then divided by the points cost. This resulting number is what I called the "weighted damage rating" or WDR of the  unit. A higher number is better in this case

    OK, with that out of the way, here are the numbers for Kurnoths. Please note that I only did calculations for melee.

    WDR: .1033 for swords, .0978 for scythes

    Defense (no thicket, against r0/r1/r2/mw): 6/8/10/12

    Defense (with thicket): 3/5.33/8.33/12

     

    For context, the WDR is very high. There's basically nothing in the entire Death GA that has a WDR this high (unless you count horde units that somehow manage to get ALL of their models into range). The Aleguzzler Gargant with its new point cost of 160 has a WDR of .0623. Brutes when fighting a high wound target are better at .1079, but are much worse against normal targets (.0775). There are a few units in the game that are higher than this, but they are much more unwieldy than Kurnoths (they tend to be large blocks of infantry that will basically never get everyone into range). 

    Defensively without the thicket ability Kurnoths were decent. They are a little worse than mass cheap infantry but a little better than most tough elites. With the thicket ability, their defense against low rend attacks raises to top tier, particularly against rend 0. Even against R2 they are competitive. Brutes, by comparison, are 6/8/10/12 while something like Freeguild Guard with sword and board are 3.33/4.88/6.45/8.

    So for those of you that think that Kurnoths were not exceptional with their old point cost, please consider these numbers. They had absolutely elite damage (among the most efficient in the game) while also having defense that ranged from being OK to elite (seriously, better than sword and board freeguild against r0 in melee is insane). With a respectable move value and utility along with the innate resistance to battleshock (that all monstrous infantry have), melee Kurnoths were a unit that was basically all upside.

    A 40 point increase is roughly 20%. So now we are looking at a WDR in the .8 range, which is still very good (a bit lower than Retributors, for example) with a defensive efficiency that is still OK vs. ranged, OK-ish vs. high rend/mortal and exceptional against low rend melee. 

    Keeping in mind that with shooting reportedly getting broad point increases, the thicket ability will now be useful a larger percentage of the time. 

    As much as I loved Kurnoths, I think that a 40 point nerf is mathematically fair. It's stern, but the numbers still look good. 20 points would have left them a bit pushed, but within the realm of justifiable. 

     

    Thanks very much for the update and analysis. So far this matches my expectations (below). Hopefully Bwych/Bwraith will drop 20 to further off-set Hunters and Gnarlroot. Based on @Chris Tomlin's excellent Ironjawz preview, it now sounds like Gnarlroot will be 120 or even 140 rather than the previously-expected 100. 

     

     


  5. FWIW here's my initial impression, based on the (known) information at hand:

    The main issue isn't whether one agrees or disagrees with the warscroll update – it's whether the update was communicated as appropriately and thoughtfully as possible.

    In that regard, choosing GHB2017 as the place to communicate this substantial update, for the very first time, seems to leave a lot to be desired, especially since it negatively affects KO players who've bought multiple Grundstok Thunderers boxes, in order to give all of them – usually – Aethercannons or Mortars.

    Given the lead time required to finalize/print GHB2017, it would seem the warscroll update could've been shared maybe as early as two months ago on the Warhammer Community website, similar to how 40K matched play changes were handled recently, with the latter widely praised as a great approach.

    On the secondary issue, the warscroll update itself, I think it's a positive sign they're open to refining warscrolls. 

    Update: Definitely agree it makes sense to include the warscroll update in an official print doc...just seems it could've also been shared with customers/community as early as possible via Warhammer Community, which would've reduced negatively impacting folks.  

    5 people like this

  6. 6 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

    Thanks to both of you (my googling was utter failure it seems).

     

    What makes it "coldplay" other than I assume it's a stand back and shoot and avoid combat?

    Probably a joke about the list being common / repeated after Les Martin popularized it on FaceHammer.


  7. 18 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

    What is the Drycha Coldplay list mentioned on the Blacksun podcast?  He implied it is quite well-known or common.  I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this for me.

     

    Thanks,

    Here you go:

    Treelord Ancient

    Drycha 

    Branchwych

    10 Dryads

    5 Tree-Revenants

    5 Tree-Revenants

    6 Kurnoth Hunters w/ Scythes

    3 Kurnoth Hunters w/ Greatbows 

    3 Kurnoth Hunters w/ Greatbows 

    3 Kurnoth Hunters w/ Greatbows 

    Gnarlroot Wargrove 

    Household


  8. Recapping my games at the recent Age of Sigmar tournament at the Slobberknocker GT in Oklahoma City, OK. The shows on sylvaneth ally options in General's Handbook 2017 + listener Q&A will be out shortly. Show Notes: 1) Slobberknocker GT AoS Scenarios: http://goo.gl/6Gr96p 2) AoS Shorts - General’s Handbook 2017: http://goo.gl/ZvecYW 3) The Black Sun Podcast w/ AoS Shorts’ Dan Street: http://goo.gl/emzxs7 4) Mortally Wounded Podcast: http://goo.gl/SqhyVF 5) Garagehammer Podcast - How to Run a GT: http://goo.gl/3VThMh 6) IC Podcast - Picking the Right 40K Army: http://goo.gl/oHDbZy 7) Through the Realmgate Podcast w/ Steve Foote: http://goo.gl/tPCwPG 8) AoS @ Michigan GT (10/6-8): http://goo.gl/bX9fTW 9) AoS @ Siegeworld (8/27): http://gateway-gamers.com 10) Warhammer Weekly: http://goo.gl/LLMLrK 11) Topic of the Week - Warhammer Community: http://goo.gl/5sx9Af 12) Elric Edge’s Epic Sylvaneth Rant: http://goo.gl/fPLjoq 13) Rolling Bad Podcast - Slobberknocker Recap: http://goo.gl/s41s1M 14) Gamemat.eu (10% off w/ code: SW2017): http://gamemat.eu

    View the full article

    1 person likes this

  9. Recapping my games at the recent Age of Sigmar tournament at the Slobberknocker GT in Oklahoma City, OK. The shows on sylvaneth ally options in General's Handbook 2017 + listener Q&A will be out shortly. Show Notes: 1) Slobberknocker GT AoS Scenarios: http://goo.gl/6Gr96p 2) AoS Shorts - General’s Handbook 2017: http://goo.gl/ZvecYW 3) The Black Sun Podcast w/ AoS Shorts’ Dan Street: http://goo.gl/emzxs7 4) Mortally Wounded Podcast: http://goo.gl/SqhyVF 5) Garagehammer Podcast - How to Run a GT: http://goo.gl/3VThMh 6) IC Podcast - Picking the Right 40K Army: http://goo.gl/oHDbZy 7) Through the Realmgate Podcast w/ Steve Foote: http://goo.gl/tPCwPG 8) AoS @ Michigan GT (10/6-8): http://goo.gl/bX9fTW 9) AoS @ Siegeworld (8/27): http://gateway-gamers.com 10) Warhammer Weekly: http://goo.gl/LLMLrK 11) Topic of the Week - Warhammer Community: http://goo.gl/5sx9Af 12) Elric Edge’s Epic Sylvaneth Rant: http://goo.gl/fPLjoq 13) Rolling Bad Podcast - Slobberknocker Recap: http://goo.gl/s41s1M 14) Gamemat.eu (10% off w/ code: SW2017): http://gamemat.eu

    View the full article


  10. Some who had meaningful influence on informing the points at the (seemingly) relevant time seemed to think they were undercosted, and I believe they thought they were sufficiently so (again at the time) to warrant a 40pt bump.

    I've held the view for a while FWIW they're reasonably well-priced within sylvaneth allegiance overall (but I could see the case for a 20pt bump), but underpriced within mixed Order. On the whole, I think 200 is fine and wouldn't likely trigger a net nerf. A primary concern, though, is Hunters going up 40 and sylvaneth not being sufficiently rebalanced internally to avoid that net nerf, with the exception of potentially adding in Allies.

    Of course, we're dealing with very limited information. Maybe they'll be a lot stronger in GH2017, which could also be an issue in the other direction since they've been in a pretty good spot in my view - not dominating at all, but quite viable.

    It's tough to assess these things with such limited information; eg the Ironjawz feedback project I facilitated with Nico and others was based on Ironjawz as they were, and the landscape and meta as it was, rather than factoring in Ironjawz allegiance abilities and how they'd affect their units and overall faction. 

    Ultimately, though, I'm hopeful for our beloved trees. 

    2 people like this

  11. 9 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

    PS with allies I'll probably try a different strat to make the tree revenants usefull for me: hiding an assassin in them: assassins for 80 points don't deal as much damage as the revenants against regular targets.. but against hero's he SHOULD be worth those points.

    Yeah had been thinking about an Assassin as well (another ex: Moonstoning an Ancient, getting off the 4+ charge, and popping out the Assassin), but it'll probably be a moot point, since it seems (appropriately) unlikely Shadowblades will be an Allies option for us. 


  12. 7 hours ago, Aezeal said:

    My opinion

    Dryads: I don't think a price decrease will happen, the reduction at 30 is likely but even then I'll probably stick at 20. 30 dryads are hard to get all in range for attacks and 20 is enough to keep the save bonus a while (at least not loose it to a single spell or a few arrows) while not being inefficient in combat. Left over points mi gh t be spend there though.

    Revenants: Obviously I think both should be 80 points (spites for 60 is a bit optimistic even though they might be a bit overcosted on 80 still). I'd like spite as battle line but think it will be only be with Drycha a general which is fluffy but not that appealing.

    Hunters: 200 points I'd guess. Not sure that is fair.. but that is what will happen imho. Rumors where 220.. But that is really excessive. 

    Treelord: probably the same. As mentioned I think he way less useful than a tla but,

    TLA: increase to 320 would not be unreasonable but I'm not sure it will happen

    Durthu: 360 please.. But probably gonna be 380.

    Drycha: 300 .. Even 320 isnt very unreasonable.

    Alarielle: I'd actually think she needs to be 580... But doubt it will happen..Maybe 600?

    Wych/wraith: Compared to most compendium races etc 100 for Wych is right.. wraith due to limitations of matched play should be lower... However Compared to the buffers is khorne army or the overlords I think they are overcosted. Bloodsecrator buff... Way better than Wych. . Even the Slaughterpriest blessings are very strong. I'd personally say the khorne chars need a price increase though.  (AND a rule of 1 for those buffs.. looking at aether khemist and bloodsecrator)

    Thanks @Mirage8112 for kicking this off and for everyone sharing their views. Fun topic. :) Here's some of my own thoughts FWIW: 

    1. Sylvaneth are still competitive in the meta but not dominating, and they never have. They're often in the running, though, which is where one would hope they'll stay.

    2. I'm as confident as possible Hunters are going up, whether justified or not, which (seemingly) means we'll need to get points back elsewhere to maintain the faction's internal competitive viability. Of course, Allies will throw us a big wrinkle. At the same time, I don't think Allies should be required to be competitive in matched play / at tournaments.

    3. I suspect Hunters will go up to 220, so that's going to be a sizable hit for many lists, including the Alarielle (6 or 9 KH) / Drycha (12 or 15 KH) / Durthu (12 KH) variations of Gnarlroot. 

    4. Gnarlroot is probably going to go up by at least 20 as well. Hopefully Household will stay at 20, even though I could see it going up 20 too.

    5. Let's take the (common) list I ran last weekend at Slobberknocker: Ancient, Durthu, BWych, 2x10 Dryads, 1x5 TRevs, 2x3 Scythes, 2x3 Greatbows, Gnarlroot, Household, Free Spirits. With KH @ 220 + Gnarlroot @ 100, that list suddenly becomes 2,180pts. Personally, I think that list (among others we have) represents a baseline of strength we'd want maintained. The list hasn't been winning many tournaments. It has multiple counters, especially, as always, mortal wound output. 

    6. So where do we get those 180pts back? (For ref, it's 220pts you'd have to get back in the common Drycha Gnarlroot variant w/ 15 KH.) The seeming need to get so many points back is why I'm hoping we'll see the following units drop in points, because they reflect units that are (primarily) only interesting choices within sylvaneth allegiance: 

    • Dryads - 100 for 10 (at the moment their fine at 120, but again, if we need to get points back, this is a way of doing it; and personally I'm not a fan at all of the idea of getting points back by having to run a Massive Regiments unit of Dryads...one general concern is sylvaneth moving away from its viability as an elite, low-model-count army, which is personally one of the big reasons I love the faction)
    • TRevs - 80 for 5 or 140 for 10 (since they come in an box of 5, I'm really hoping you don't have to buy 2 boxes to run a minimum unit...that'll cause some grief)
    • Spite Revs - 80 for 5 (...and if they become a minimum unit of 10, that'll do away our hopes for Dreadwood...I don't think many want to run 40 Spite Revs)
    • Treelord - 240 (I think one could shave off 20 pts (he's currently 260) and it'd be fine, but 40pts seems too much, especially with Behemoths becoming more relevant in at least one of the new Pitched Battles (Duality of Death)
    • Branchwych and Branchwraith - 80 (again, doesn't seem a huge issue to shave off 20pts)
    • Spirit of Durthu - 380 (I doubt he'll get 20pts shaved off, but would love to see it, because in the aggregate it could make a major difference to 2K lists) 

    7. So going back to the list in #5, if the above had those new point values, my Slobberknocker list would now be 2,040pts. That's better than 2,180pts, but it's still illegal. 

    8. Here's my guess on other point values:

    • Alarielle - 580 (would love to see her drop a little again to help off-set Hunters going up, but in current sylvaneth points, she's not too bad at 620...if you use her well, she can be insanely good...one problem, though, is you can run up against lists that can take her out in the 1st round even if she's deployed on the board edge)
    • Ancient - 300 (Lord of Change is 300, and both seem about right at that amount)
    • Drycha - 280 (She seems fine at 280, especially if horde armies are going to become more prominent)
    1 person likes this

  13. 35 minutes ago, Nick in York said:

    Using them with Sylvaneth allegiance, I keep them back in the hidden enclaves and bring them on later in game to claim objectives or to stop an enemy unit from making their desired move. I generally bring them on into areas I've cleared with either my Kurnoth greatbows or somewhere that my opponent doesn't think needs protecting.

    Note: I pretty much expect them to die quickly but that might hold a unit up for a turn or gain some victory points.

     

    I've found TRevs especially useful at events w/ secondary objectives, which is pretty common. Often I've seen secondary objectives that require high mobility (e.g., getting a unit off the table via your opponent's deployment zone, tagging multiple terrain features, tagging multiple board edges,  etc.). In general, though, I also tend to keep them in the hidden enclaves and bring them on later for an objective or for setting up a key screen. Every once in a while it'll make sense to try and get off a 9" charge on a vulnerable Hero, but at their current price, I haven't found that a reliable role.

    1 person likes this

  14. Really fun following this event on Twitter. A shout out from across the pond to everyone involved in making it happen.

    Anyone know Andy Hughes' sylvaneth build? A third place finish looks outstanding given the strength of the field. 

    Would love to have Andy on the podcast to chat about his experience with the trees at BOBO.

    2 people like this

  15. 50 minutes ago, Durandbrand said:

    Hello fellow tree huggers! Been reading this thread for a bit and finally decided to post. I'll be competing in a big NA tournament (NOVA Open) at the end of this month and would like some feedback on my list. It'll also be my first actual tournament as well.

    The core of my list consists of

    General: Treelord Ancient (300)
    Trait: Gnarled warrior
    Artefact: Oaken armor
    Deeplore: Regrowth

    Branchwych (100)
    Artefact: Ranu's
    Deeplore: Verdant Blessings

    Battlemage on Celestial Hurricanum (320)

    Tree Revenants x5 (100)
    Dryads x10 (120)
    Dryads x10 (120)

    Battalions:
    Household (20)
    Gnarlroot Wargrove (80)

    Kurnoth Hunters w/ scythes x6 (360)
    Kurnoth Hunters w/ bows x3 (180)

    Balewind Vortex (100)

    Now the part I need help on would be how to finish up the list. I'm thinking of one of the options below

    Kurnoth Hunters w/ bows or scythes (180)

    Or

    Treekins x6 (200)

    Or

    Remove the unit of bow hunters and add

    Drycha (280)
    Treekin x3 (100)

    The Balewind could also be interchanged for more treekin as well. It's mainly there just to provide cover for the hurricanim and make him invulnerable to any melee that might fly over the screen or deepstrike in.

    I do have Alarielle and Durthu as well, if you think they will make a better fit in my list.

    Any advice and feedback will be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

    That all seems pretty solid. Personally, I'm not a fan of running the Balewind, especially since sylvaneth are already quite strong, but this is just a personal bias. 

    If you're interested in running Alarielle, I'm a big fan of the attached list from Laurie (@Lhw), who finished 3rd with it at the AoS GT Heat 3 last month. It's also somewhat similar to the Alarielle list that Austin (@AustinTheMan) took to LVO earlier this year (he finished 2nd overall), although Austin wasn't running Gnarlroot Wargrove. As with many sylvaneth lists, it requires careful play and can be unforgiving to many mistakes; but I think it's quite strong overall, and, based on personal experience (I've been playtesting a similar Alarielle build for a while), a lot of fun to play, since it enables you to do a bit of everything. 

    Some notes on the list:

    • A lot of players have been running Branchwych w/ both Acorn of the Ages and Verdant Blessing. In this case, Alarielle has Verdant Blessing. I'm a fan of this for multiple reasons, e.g., let's say you're facing a one-drop army, which finishes deploying before you, then goes first, and then proceeds to take out the Branchwych before she's had a chance to generate a Wyldwood with her Acorn of the Ages. In that case, you've still got a reliable way to generate Wyldwoods -- Alarielle w/ Verdant Blessing.
    • Branchwych w/ Throne of Vines is solid since you can often get her to a spot to hang out for a while (Throne of Vines stays up without recasting as long as the caster doesn't move), and then she can cast 2 spells w/ +D3 to cast. Even if she's moving and then only casting 1 spell w/ +D3 to cast, she gives you a more reliable way to get off Verdurous Harmony for replenishing your Kurnoth Hunters.
    • Oaken Armour is more common for the Ancient, but personally, I'm a fan of Moonstone of the Hidden Ways, since it turns him into an amazing utility piece (Moonstoning the Ancient has helped me win multiple games, and it's just a ton of fun to play). Of course, this makes the Ancient a little less resilient, so there's definitely some tradeoffs to consider. 
    • Alarielle's shooting attack, the Ancient's, and the 6 greatbows give you a solid amount of long-range damage potential. This means a lot of armies will have to come to you, which in turn combines well with optimizing your Wyldwoods + the 7 spells you can cast from the list, e.g. for triggering Roused by Magic rolls on those Wyldwoods.
    • You've got some bodies in the 2x10 Dryads for screening off key pieces (e.g. w/ 3 scythes behind one of them swinging over the top), sitting on objectives in cover in a Wyldwood, etc. Definitely be careful about how you use sylvaneth battleline, though, since they can die pretty easily and are easy to waste. 
    • You've got some combat punch in the list (Alarielle + 3 scythes especially) to deal real damage. Unfortunately, Alarielle's beetle can sometimes get lazy and not do much for you, and of course gets weaker as she takes damage.

    @Lhw might have other thoughts, since he has a lot more practice with this Alarielle-list variation.

    Screen Shot 2017-08-04 at 1.26.03 AM.png

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  16. Some personal, quite-subjective reflections on AoS, it's community, Warhammer Live, podcasting, and more. Speaking of podcasting, I've gotta get better at breathing through my nose, and pick up a microphone windscreen. Good lord. Hopefully the breathing isn't too annoying. Thank you to everyone, guests and listeners alike, who's made doing this podcast so worthwhile. Here's to the next 25 shows. Show Notes: 1) S&W on Twitter: http://twitter.com/scrubyandwells 2) Gamemat.eu (10% off code: SW2017): http://gamemat.eu

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  17. 27 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

    @scrubyandwells. I guess with Kurnoth going up it's tough but I can swap Dryads for TreeRevs and got 60 spare right now slight discount on Alarielle and TreeRevs and I am fine (going by Skirmish) if not I will go with 9 Kurnoths( 6 and 3) and some allies then 

    I am just little burned out by Gnarloot found myself many times with no spells to cast as only Regrowth is great every turn and Mystic Shield and Arcane are one offs. 

    With that list I have 4 spells and Alarielle spell is bonkers. 

     

    Right on! Also excited to switch to an Alarielle build once GH2017 is out.

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  18. 32 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

    BTW 

    Q: A loremaster in gnarlroot can't get items right? Not Sylvaneth ones and not general order ones right?

    Yeah, no artefacts of any kind for a Loremaster in Gnarlroot, and no Deepwood lore spell. They do get access to Gnarlroot's Verdurous Harmony spell, though.

    Incidentally, if a Loremaster is a viable Ally option for sylvaneth in GH2017, you could take a Loremaster in the Ironbark Wargrove and give them the Ironbark Talisman artefact. It's not a great choice for them...but it's something.


  19. 2 hours ago, DantePQ said:

    Recently I had great results with pretty standard Sylvaneth build ( 2xTLA, Branchwych, Gnarlroot, 3x5 Tree-Revs, 3x3 Bows Hunters, 6 Scythes Hunters) 

    as I finished 2nd in  20+ players tourney and was crushing my clubmates. But I would like to try something different what do you think about such list : 

    Alarielle + Regrowth

    TLA  + General + Verdant's Blessing + Gnarled Warrior + Moonstone 

    2x5 Tree-Revs

    10 Dryads

    6 Scythes Kurnoths

    6 Scythes Kurnoths

    Could it work without shooting with two big Kurnoth blocks , I love damage input, there is decent chance to generate woods as well.  

    That's a scary-looking list!

    Sadly, since the general expectation is Hunters will be somewhere around 220 in GH2017, that list probably won't be viable when the new book comes out. 

    Re: whether sylvaneth can be effective without much shooting, a local friend/player and I have been chatting recently about that very subject. He thinks at least 4 units of MSU combat Hunters (scythes/swords) is the way to go (playing them aggressively), even against armies with a lot of chaff / bodies.  

    I haven't tried it out, so it would be great to see some folks go for it against a wide variety of opponents/lists.

    Personally, I'm concerned  about it going up against armies with a ton of chaff / bodies that also have powerful damage output from shooting and magic sitting behind their chaff. Two examples would be the infamous "Mooclan" build (x3 Huskard on Thundertusk, x1 Frostlord on Stonehorn, x3 20 Moonclan Grots with Fanatics, x1 Grot Shaman), and Tzeentch with lots of cheap Horrors with Skyfires and multiple mortal-wound-dealing Wizards screened off by the Horrors. 

    Against those kinds of lists, I suspect even x4 MSU scythes would have a tough time reaching the real threats before the Hunters have been reduced significantly; but maybe not. As we know, their damage output is often amazing, so maybe they could break through the chaff lines with enough strength left.


  20. 54 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

    So would you go

    TLA, Drycha, wych, loremaster

    3x 3 Kurnoth hunter, 2x 20 dryad and 1 x 5 tree revenants (household and gnarlroot)

    Or

    TLA, drycha, wych, loremaster

    2x 3 hunters, 10 and 20 dryads, 5 revenants and either TLA or TL.

    (I'd probably run both with gnarles warrrior and oaken armor on TLA, also regrowth on him, wych probably lamenteri and regrowth for high chance on healing and getting hunters back - I've been using damage on the wych but have been failing both regrowth and verdurous growth too much at important moments, also helps against dispells. Drycha would likely get verdant blessing to try and get an extra forest in.)

    I think there are definate pro's and con's for both setup's (another TL or TLA gives the loremaster more efficiency.. more likely to have a good target for that awesome spell, 2nd TLA could get briarsheath or maybe even circlet and the reaping which might surprise my opponent if I stuff it down his troat :D).. but 20 dryads > 10 dryads.. and 3 extra hunters... always good.

    First game will be against Khorne.. so I'll probably use 3 bows and 3 swords if 6 total or 6 bows and 3 swords if 9.. since the buffers in his army are crazy - when I played a near full melee army that was a real problem).

     

    Like the article.. all good points.. though my opponent usually places terrain that more than 4-5 bases in total (except maybe in out of the way corners) are hardly possible.. and then I have to succeed in getting the rolls in my first turn or after moving with units even less viable places will remain.

    - this makes both damaging by roused by magic and by moving/charging trough them much less likely.

    Hi, both lists seem pretty interesting. I'd probably go w/ the 1st option (w/ 3x3 Hunters).

    • It gives you 2 good targets for Hand of Glory: TLA + Drycha (personally I'm a fan of running TLA w/ Moonstone of the Hidden Ways + Hand of Glory, turning him into a scary threat that your opponent has to worry about, although he is a little more vulnerable without Oaken Armour, so if putting him in harm's way, you may also want to make sure Mystic Shield is on him).
    • 3x3 Hunters would allow you to run 2x3 w/ bows and 1x3 w/ swords (or scythes). The 2x3 bows often seems like a minimum to me for a good all-comers, general-purpose sylvaneth build; e.g., vs Khorne, you'll want to do some early damage w/ shooting, magic, and Wyldwoods before they get into you.
    • 1st option seems a little more balanced: 6 spells, 2 big blocks of Dryads (just be careful about how they're used; I've often lost them due to poor play, in particular putting them in harm's way unnecessarily), 3 combat threats in TLA + Drycha + 1x3 Hunter-swords, long-range damage output via 2x3 Hunter-bows, etc.
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  21. Jacob Burleson joins the show to share his experience serving the Blood God in Age of Sigmar. We talk Matched Play, list building, battalions, under-rated warscrolls, and Wrathmamas...so many Wrathmamas. Show Notes: 1) Jacob on Twitter: http://twitter.com/reverenddangles 2) Gamemat.eu (10% off code: SW2017): http://gamemat.eu 3) Scruby & Wells on Twitter: http://twitter.com/scrubyandwells 4) Rolling Bad Rumble 2017: http://rollingbad.com/RBR.html 5) AoS @ Siegeworld 2017: http://goo.gl/r81no6

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  22. Rob Moar (Moarhammer) is here to revel us with tales of Tzeentchian plots concealed within machinations so shrouded with secrecy, one wonders why he's on a bloody podcast in the first place. Show Notes: 1) Moarhammer on YouTube: http://goo.gl/ZjMujt 2) Moarhammer on Twitter: http://twitter.com/moarhammer 3) Through the Realmgates Podcast: http://goo.gl/8tG4nW 4) AoS GT Aug 4-6 @ Slobberknocker: http://slobberknockergt.com 5) AoS 1-day Aug 27 @ Siegeworld: http://goo.gl/vysTro 6) AoS Narrative Event Organizers Network: http://wearetheneon.com 7) AoS Shorts Podcast: http://aosshorts.com 8) The Black Sun Podcast: http://goo.gl/3J6feP 9) Gamemat.eu (10% off code: SW2017): http://gamemat.eu 10) Tectonic Craft Studios: http://tectoniccraftstudios.com

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  23. My friend Bryan is back to recap our experience at Battleshock Bash. Thanks to Lucias Meyer for hosting such a great Age of Sigmar event. Show Notes: 1) Battleshock Bash Pack: http://goo.gl/c6GY3H 2) Battleshock Podcast: http://battleshock.net 3) Gamemat.eu (10% off w/ code: SW2017): http://gamemat.eu

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