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Posts posted by scrubyandwells

  1. 5 hours ago, Japanman said:

    Hey guys,

    Just bought 4 boxes of Kurnoth hunters. I was thinking of making 6x scythes and 6x bows. Or should I make 6x scythes 3x bows 3x swords. Any advice would be much appreciated.


    Yeah I'd highly recommend at least x3 Swords. Just fair warning: Once you play with x3, you're going to want at least x3 more. :)

    • Thanks 1

  2. 13 hours ago, IndigoGirls said:

    Anyone have rough numbers on expected damage from a Durthu vs 6 Scythe Kurnoth hunters? Obviously Kurnoths have way more combined wounds and are 20 pts more. Just trying to get a feel for the damage separation. I'm personally thinking that for pure damage against high armor targets, Kurnoth's will do more. New +1 hit/wound artifact for Durthu is pretty juicy though and might change those numbers a bit.

    Don't have numbers. Personal sense is 6 combat Kurnoth were a better buy than Durthu in GHB17, and are an even better buy now.

    Taking Ghyrstrike would help, although that's an item slot, a precious resource, and a -1 to hit debuff (or worse) is relatively easy to come by in the game now.

    Six Kurnoth Swords (2x3, or maybe 1x6 in Dreadwood for Ambush), in particular, will be amazing vs the majority of units I expect we'll see on the table. 

    Part of the consideration, as with anything, is list-dependent. E.g., with Alarielle, 2x3 Kurnoth give you two targets for Soul Amphorae, but Durthu gives you a bodyguard for Alarielle to help keep her alive e.g. vs alphastrikes or ranged mortal wounds.

    Overall, though, as long as ranged mortal wound output isn't way over the top in the AoS2 meta, I think Durthu will be quite playable, and man would it be fun to give him Ghyrstrike and put him in situations where he has a real chance to shine.


  3. 57 minutes ago, Craze said:

    As I am not really experienced, I would love to have some Feedback from more experienced Sylvaneth Players. Also, do you Thing Lifeswarm is worth the try or would you prefer a damage dealing Endless Spell, like e.g. Geminids?

    Yeah, a # of the elements you laid out will be part of the baseline for Dreadwood, when the opportunity exists to do an effective alphastrike. I think one of the challenges with your particular list is it needs more punch.

    A common pre-GHB18 choice for Dreadwood had been Ambushing 6 Scythes. That's still a pretty good option, although you'll also see lists bumping that # to 9 now. A Spirit of Durthu with Ghyrstrike will likely be another common route.

    In terms of a command trait, I've been using Warsinger for a long while instead of Gnarled Warrior because of the significance of +1 to charge, turning our 9+ charges via teleporting into 8+ charges, and of course with Cogs on, that'll be 6+ charges with a command point to RR the charge if needed.

    The Celestant Prime is another interesting prospect, because of the unique options he provides, e.g.:

    • As another source of long-range D3 mortal wounds with an area of effect up to 6".
    • As a reliable piece in an alphastrike. He'll have 3 attacks base in the new Stormcast Battletome (2" reach, 3's and 2's, -3 rend, 3 damage). Also, you'll now be able to use his Orrery ability to change both dice in a charge roll (I think that's right, based on my memory of WH Live over the weekend), so he can auto-charge at 12".
    • As a reliable piece in a betastrike, i.e., you keep him in the Celestial Realm round 1, and then you crash him into something important in round 2 (e.g., as a second-wave attack or a counter-strike), giving him 5 attacks + his Sceptre's mortal wound output.

    Taking the Prime turns Dreadwood into a 2 drop, but I suspect 2-drop will still out-deploy maybe 8-9 out of 10 opponents in GHB18. 

    Re: Emerald Lifeswarm...that's a tough one. It definitely has potential. Other choices, though, may give better mileage in more settings. Highly recommend experimenting with a range of endless spells, especially the Pendulum, Geminids, Palisade, Shackles, and Swords. And Cogs + Warsinger is probably going to be standard in a lot of tree lists.

    • Like 2
    • Thanks 1

  4. 8 hours ago, sirbrokensword said:

    So, I'm considering starting AoS2.  My friends are enjoying it, but I see some large balance problems right away, and GW drove me away from their systems a decade ago with the balance issues.  I play wargames competitively, and I don't mind playing other games (board, etc.) for funsies, but I'f im investing thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of painting time, I want to have a competitive experience.   Does AoS2 provide that as an option?  What factions are on top any why?  Is shooting or magic dominant? etc..

    I don't need perfect balance, but I'm very concerned with what I've seen so far in the 3 games Ive watched, skeleton hordes with 5 attacks each, deepkin eels with crazy attacks, etc.  

    "Can AoS2 be a competitive game?"


    At the end of AoS1, it was in a reasonably strong place in the global tournament scene. The number of different, competitively viable lists was pretty sizable in the ecosystem. A number of problems did exist, and the space of tier 2 competitive lists certainly could've been larger, but on the whole, things were positive.

    AoS2 added a number of new elements and changed quite a few existing ones. It's going to have kinks for a while, but I'm pretty confident the direction of the company and the quality of the AoS community will result, with some patience, in an even stronger overall ecosystem than AoS1, in terms of the space of competitively viable lists. 

    • Like 5

  5. 7 minutes ago, MayItBe said:

    I would like to remove her, but i am not sold on my other possibilities.

    Best would be taking Loremaster and 3 Kurnoths (10pts spare), but i i have not played it yet. I think Loremaster spell would do miracles on drycha, but she's out. I am not fan of 6-hunter block, 2x3 seems more flexible. Loremaster is vulnerable to wyldwoods, but if you keep him 3" away, he's safe.

    09-10.12 We have another big tournament coming and i'll test no-drycha-list for at least month.

    I've tested Drycha + Loremaster a little and it's quite potent. The re-rolls to hit and wound, especially when she's Enraged (12 attacks), makes her very scary against most things. Here's one Gnarlroot list for ref. Thanks for all the posts sharing your experiences. Look forward to hearing how no-Drycha goes. 

    Screen Shot 2017-10-31 at 5.35.33 PM.png

    • Like 1

  6. 6 hours ago, RotCleaver said:

    As far as I know, you cannot move the trees on a Wyldwood as they  are considered unmovable objects just like larger pieces of terrain / scenery. A model may pass through the wyldwood as long as its base can fit between the trees. I have not seen any errata on this issue though, so my info could be out dated. 

    Here's how I ruled it personally in the Wellsian Wars Player's Pack, attached, but others might house rule/play it differently. 

    Screen Shot 2017-10-11 at 4.04.31 PM.png

    • Like 1

  7. Rob Symes joins the show to talk about his next project (5:43), the value of candor, and his time at Games Workshop working on Warhammer Live and engaging the community (59:49).

    Show Notes:
    1) Rob on Twitter: http://twitter.com/sixdiceskills
    2) Renegade Open, Nov 18-19: http://renegadeopen.com
    3) First Blood, Nov 18-19: http://firstbloodgt.blogspot.com
    4) Combat Phase Podcast: http://combatphase.com
    5) Scruby & Wells: http://scrubyandwells.com
    6) S&W on Twitter: http://twitter.com/scrubyandwells
    7) Gamemat.eu (10% off code: SW2017): http://gamemat.eu

    • Like 3
    • Thanks 1

  8. I believe @Liam had: 

    • Treelord Ancient (Regrowth + Gnarled Warrior? + Oaken Armour?)
    • Branchwych (Verdant Blessing)
    • Branchwych (Verdant Blessing)
    • 30 Dryads
    • 30 Dryads
    • 5 Tree-Revenants
    • 3 Kurnoth Scythes
    • 3 Kurnoth Scythes
    • 3 Kurnoth Bows
    • 5 Sisters of the Thorn

    The only ally in there = Sisters of the Thorn. 

    • Like 5

  9. 12 minutes ago, Walkirriox said:

    Hi! I have a question about Kurnoth Hunters and the skill Tanglethorn Thicket, if I charge, can I use the skill, and complete the charge but only having 1" pile in? 

    Next turn, if the Kurnoth Hunters are in combat, can I use the skill even if they don't charge or they are not charged? (It's supoosed to be my or opponent's charge phase even if I or him don't charge, right?)

    Sorry for my bad english, I hope you understand what I mean. 

    Thank you in advance!



    You can't use Tanglethorn Thicket in a turn in which you charged. 

    In any other instance, you can use Tanglethorn Thicket in the combat phase, either your combat phase or your opponent's. However, you must announce you're going to use Tanglethorn Thicket at the start the charge phase -- again either your charge phase or your opponent's, depending on who has the turn.

    Hope that helps.

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1

  10. 1 hour ago, svnvaldez said:

    @scrubyandwells I completely disagree with you... soft scores played a minimal factor with 2 players in the top 10 receiving a painting nom. (worth 10 points more than the normal 30 almost every player received for meeting minimal standards) and 4 players in the top 10 receiving 2 sports votes worth 10 points.

    In the top 30:

    Myland score increased 6% from soft scores

    Tomlin score increased 13% 

    Baliey score increased 13% 

    Mawdsley score increased 14%

    Mills score increased 7%

    Pano score increased 7%

    Spink score increased 8%

    That is 7 guys out of 30 that the soft scores had any effect on and the effect was minimal. We go over board in the USA with soft scores making up 20 to 50% of the final scores and I would argue that the same guys would have got the same sports vote whatever army they played.  I believe you are trying to push an adgenda with your post and I would ask you to look at the data.

    And yeah I didn't look at this in detail, but more just looked at Chris's fantastic result with Ironjawz and noticed the extra +10 on painting and +10 on sports gave him a jump from 155 -- the range for 13th to 18th place -- to 175, tying for 3rd but losing the tie-breaker to Nicky. So the comment about "soft scores were a contributing factor" was a result of seeing the difference between him finishing tied for 3rd with Ironjawz and finishing 4th vs tied for 12th where he would've finished 15th (I believe...). So my brain saw that and immediately thought "Well that seems like a notable difference." I'll freely admit that kind of reaction to a single example doesn't/shouldn't have much bearing on the topic of soft scores at tournaments. Anyway, would love to discuss all of this in depth with you some time. 

    • Like 1

  11. 1 hour ago, svnvaldez said:

    @scrubyandwells I completely disagree with you... soft scores played a minimal factor with 2 players in the top 10 receiving a painting nom. (worth 10 points more than the normal 30 almost every player received for meeting minimal standards) and 4 players in the top 10 receiving 2 sports votes worth 10 points.

    In the top 30:

    Myland score increased 6% from soft scores

    Tomlin score increased 13% 

    Baliey score increased 13% 

    Mawdsley score increased 14%

    Mills score increased 7%

    Pano score increased 7%

    Spink score increased 8%

    That is 7 guys out of 30 that the soft scores had any effect on and the effect was minimal. We go over board in the USA with soft scores making up 20 to 50% of the final scores and I would argue that the same guys would have got the same sports vote whatever army they played.  I believe you are trying to push an adgenda with your post and I would ask you to look at the data.

    Happy to discuss this some time @svnvaldez.

    I've admitted an emotional bias many times before on being interested in better understanding what tools can increase the number of factions and lists that can compete on top tables at tournaments -- in increasing the range of viable competitive variety at any given time.

    Ironjawz, Nighthaunts, Soulblight, Wanderers, Flesh-Eater Courts, Beastclaw Raiders, and many, many others are, all else equal, behind the eight ball when it comes to the top tables. With that said, it's extremely early in GH17, so surprises could happen.

    Ultimately, personally, I'm fine with whatever at any given time. There's no argument I can give you that it "should be a certain way."

    Again, it's a personal bias. I'm emotionally more attached to the notion of a broader range of factions being competitively viable on the top tables, and interested in better understanding what tools can help increase viable variety in that regard.

    Maybe that's a dumb thing to be interested in. Maybe it's a reasonable thing but I'm focusing on the "wrong" elements. Maybe I'm missing obvious things that you see. Maybe you have much better ideas. Maybe you have completely different interests. 

    I'd love to better understand the perspective on hard-scores-only as well. Reece and I chatted a few weeks ago and I know he doesn't like soft scores. It'd be great to learn more about the perspective. 

    • Like 2

  12. Soft scores were a contributing factor, which is fantastic IMO and maybe a reflection of why soft scores can be a net positive. They can be one way (among others) of giving a faction like Ironjawz, Nighthaunts, or Soulblight a better shot at a podium, whereas under hard scores only they'd have a tougher go of it on average vs SCE, Tzeentch, Murderhost, et al.

    • Like 1

  13. Greatly enjoying the thread guys! Congrats to @Chris Tomlin and @Sangfroid on Facehammer too. 

    Played against Ironjawz a couple times over the weekend with the trees. Definitely seemed like they need ally shooting.

    Played around with a few lists afterward and thought this one was interesting, attached.

    1. 4 Rock Lobbers for quite a bit of no-LOS 44" threat w/ potential for extra attacks on 6+ (or 5+ vs 10+ models).

    2. Couple solid heroes for Duality of Death. Maybe Skewer instead on Megaboss on foot but love the damage potential w/ the extra rend.

    3. Decent # of units/bodies with some diversity/adaptability. 

    4 Rock Lobbers (or e.g. 3 Spear-Chukkas) seems like it could change the equation in certain matchups (lists/scenarios), where you could now hang back and potentially do some real ranged damage before exposing many of your units. In that regard, certain lists might decide to alpha-strike in response, but 10 Ardboys + 2x3 Gore-Gruntas should help with screening and keeping folks off the Rock Lobbers and Brutes. 

    This is all theory, though...just wanted to share some initial ideas. Hoping to get in more games vs the 'jawz this coming weekend, this time w/ more shooting in their list!

    PS Allegiance is supposed to be Ironjawz...forgot to change it in Scrollbuilder.

    Screen Shot 2017-10-02 at 2.18.44 AM.png

    • Like 1

  14. 6 hours ago, Flood said:

    Hey everyone! Considering starting a new force. I dont want to rush into anything and want to be well informed. Ive been trying to read as much as i can about stormcast and sylvaneth, but i also want peoples opinions. In terms of looks, i cant decide but realize that that is a subjective matter and im on my own. I love the look of both sylvaneth and SC which makes it so hard to choose. 

    Players of SC and sylvaneth, what has been your experience with the faction in the current meta? Are you satisfied? Are you disheartened and would you recommend against it? If you had to start over, would you choose something else or rebuild SC/sylvaneth?

    Currently i have a pretty huge skaven force, and im pretty disheartened with them myself. I feel i did rush into the force, and if i could go back in time, i definitely wouldn't do them again. Every piece i buy its an attempt to salvage something that is, in my opinion, inherently bad. Sort of like turkey! We stuff it and do all this stuff to try and make it better, but in the end... its just a dry bird. Anyway, this is the kind of thing i want to avoid when choosing my second force, hence this post. 

    So what is your recommendation? For or against either faction?

    Some second choices of mine are FEC and ironjawz, but im def leaning towards sylvaneth/SC. 

    I look forward to your comments and opinions! Thanks in advance!

    Hi there, if you're looking to play competitively a lot, e.g., looking to attend multiple tournaments, Stormcast are one of the best bets all around. They have about every tool at their disposal, multiple competitive builds, multiple playstyles, the largest model range w/ guaranteed annual expansion, great for painting and customizing to your liking, etc. 

    • Like 3

  15. 26 minutes ago, Lhw said:

    After another mixed tourney with Gnarlroot, think I'm going to try Dreadwood for a bit. Those of you who have been playing with it (particularly @DantePQ) I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on what the important things to get right with it are? 

    Hey Laurie, did you try Alarielle again or go with a different Gnarlroot for Facehammer?

    Looks like sylvaneth struggled again in general at the event, although I didn't see many folks running them, which was also interesting.

    What would you say are some of the issues you've been running into?

    @Mirage8112 has been focusing on Dreadwood as well and has a lot of in-depth thoughts on it. 

  16. 27 minutes ago, Lhw said:

    I've played the two classic DoT builds a couple of times each (The Changehost and a a Skyfire heavy one - though never a maxed out Skyfire one). I've managed to get wins (Minor and Major) against the Skyfire heavy ones, but not come really that close against the Changehost one. I think that's the one that really poses a problem. Unfortunately think the same applies for Dreadwood, unfortunately. The amount of mortal wounds all the casters kick out just means they tear you to pieces. Dreadwood might increase your chances, but a good player will use all his horrors to protect his good units from your alpha strike - then you're in his face for loads of mortals!

    I might have missed something, still haven't experimented with a Dreadwood build. I agree that it seems better against the Skyfire build, but the top DoT build at Blackout a few weekends ago was the Changehost one. 

    @Lhw - Thanks for sharing your experiences so far. Does the attached look roughly like one of the top Changehost builds? Just going off top of my head (didn't specify spells etc.). We should probably just find Tony Moore's Blackout list and @Mirage8112 / et al. could test against it. 

    Screen Shot 2017-09-29 at 1.54.28 AM.png

  17. 1 minute ago, Mirage8112 said:

    @scrubyandwells Lol don't you trust me? xD Oh ye of little faith...

    All kidding aside, do you remember when BCR came out and we spent 20+ pages working through the permutations of dealing with double/triple stonehorns/husktusks? Tzeentch is the new BCR in terms of tough opponents for Sylvaneth. I'm not saying that Dreadwood is perfect counter (because it most certainly isn't), but it's not as if there are any better or "proven" alternatives at the moment. I don't think Gnarlroot is the way to go personally, because gnarlroot's play style is basically what DioT does, except not as well. Gnarlroot relies on range and spell casting to overcome some of the weaknesses inherent in a Sylvaneth army. But with Skyfires for range, and guaranteed unbinds/castings from destiny dice, as well as fairly decent cc units, I think Gnarlroot is trying out magic the Ultimate Magician and outshoot Robin hood. While I haven't play tested the Dreadwood build vs a DioT list yet, I actually play a DioT list as my second (well... 5th) AoS army, so I'm reasonably confident in the match-up (as confident as one can).

    The problem is that both lists have strengths and weaknesses that depend pretty heavily on rolls. Destiny dice are critical for DioT and if the roll is bad (no 6's and no 1's for example) it can make the game much more difficult. Likewise for Dreadwood, a low stratagem roll combined with bad initiative roll can make things equally difficult. Likewise the different scenarios in the GHB favor one army or the other, so there are a hell of a lot of variables that go beyond "competitive lists and good players."

    So this is my thought. Write me a competitive 2k DioT list, something that you would expect to see at a tournament (i.e. not particularly tailored for Sylvaneth. Perhaps @Nico would like to contribute on this matter) and I'll see if i can find somebody to playtest it with me. We'll set it up with an "average" destiny dice roll and use 2/3 of the dreadwood stratagems. I have a few players at my local club that are very competent players (Kyle, my opponent from my dreadwood test is actually very good, although I think he's a bit annoyed me after our last game [not that I blame him xD].) and I'll sit down and see if I can put it through its paces.    


    Love your idea! You're on, my friend. I'll put something together and send your way. And yeah it'd be awesome to hear from @Nico as well. 

    Incidentally, I tend to agree with you on Gnarlroot vs Tzeentch, especially now that it's 250pts. 

    Very excellent point re: "there are a hell of a lot of variables that go beyond 'competitive lists and good players'."

  18. I was thinking about the recent podcast with Shaun. The following seemed worth a look as variations on the theme we discussed.

    The first swaps the Waywatcher and one of the 3 KH Bows for 2x5 Judicators.

    The second does that + swaps one of the 5 TreeRevs for a Knight-Azyros and splits the 20 Dryads into 2x10.

    In general, I suspect the first variation is stronger than the second.

    While Judicators have certain limitations over KH Bows, their RR 1s to hit vs Chaos (especially Tzeentch and Khorne) is notable. They also provide a few extra bodies for screening and/or standing back and sitting on objectives. 

    With the second variation, the Azyros further improves the KH Bows + Judicators vs all armies via his RR 1s to hit vs any target within 10" of him. In the least, that means he probably becomes a priority target for your opponent (especially vs Chaos with his one-time D6-mortal-wound 8" bubble), so in turn he's taking attention away from something else. 



  19. 4 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

    Allegiance: Sylvaneth
    Treelord Ancient (300)
    Branchwych (80)
    Alarielle the Everqueen (600)
    Loremaster (100)
    5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
    5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
    30 x Dryads (270)
    3 x Kurnoth Hunters (220)
    - Greatbows
    Household (70)
    Gnarlroot Wargrove (180)

    Reinforcement Points (0)

    Total: 1980 / 2000
    Allies: 0 / 400

    If facing a middle-of-the-road competitive field, I think the above could do pretty well. Against a field with a lot of top lists and experienced players, though, it would probably struggle.  It doesn't really have enough threats and has too many eggs in the Alarielle basket, and she's easy to kill (or chaff/ignore) for quite a few good lists, especially if you're double turned. I do think she could be viable in a mixed Order list, though, with a Loremaster and other efficient friends. :)

  20. 15 hours ago, Nick Dicehammer said:

    I would like an army that is fun, easy and quick to play but isn't a total pushover in games.  I guess I would like the best of both worlds from your post above. 

    Cool! Yeah the Free Spirits suggestion is a good one. Spirit of Durthu is a lot of fun since he's powerful but very swingy and relatively easy to kill for quite a few armies (especially since you need to get him into combat to do his thing, which means he's often in range of lots of mortal wounds coming his way). Sometimes he'll destroy a unit, sometimes he'll whiff, and sometimes he'll die before he even makes it into combat. When he does his thing, though, he's a joy to behold. 

    Here's one list attached that I think would be pretty fun to play while still being competitive.

    Good luck!

    Screen Shot 2017-09-29 at 12.05.32 AM.png

    • Like 2

  21. On 9/23/2017 at 5:15 AM, vesco said:

    mmmh but at the same time is the less efficient list in terms of point usage

    Agree with @Aezeal: Gnarlroot and other battalions seem tough to take in 2K, and doubly so in 1.5K. I like the look of Ancient, 20 Dryads, 5 TRevs, 6 Scythes, and 6 Bows. It could struggle in Duality of Death, so you might swap one of the 3 Kurnoth for a Treelord.