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scrubyandwells

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Everything posted by scrubyandwells

  1. Let's Chat Sylvaneth

    Hi all, Hoping to start a conversation here looking at the Sylvaneth in theory and in practice using Matched Play, especially for tournies and Pitched Battles. Would love to hear about your own views and experiences. After a first-look through the battletome, here's initial impressions: Overall: The Sylvaneth are a landmark for AoS. Arguably for the first time, GW has hit for the cycle: the lore, characters, models, and rules are all strong. I hope this release reflects a new level of integrated (and growing) quality for AoS across those four components. Gnarlroot Wargrove Battalion stands out. With 2,000pts, it could be common to see 7-9 unique spells casted per round from a pool of 9-11 choices. This battalion also allows you to take an Order Wizard. A Loremaster is a good buy at 100pts to cast Hand of Glory on, e.g., Alarielle, Drycha, or a Spirit of Durthu. I love the Tree-Revenant models. If you're trying to optimize, though, Dryads seem distinctly better. Two factors stand out: Large model counts are important for Pitched Battle scenarios, given the role of model count for controlling objectives/winning. Sylvaneth Battleline units are both fragile and susceptible to battleshock (although buffs exist to improve bravery). In light of those factors and others, 10 Dryads for 120pts seems a better buy than 5 Tree-Revenants for 100pts. With the help of Wyldwoods scenery, Sylvaneth have multiple ways to "teleport." The effectiveness, though, will be affected by having to "teleport" 9" away from enemy models. At 9"+ away, charges will fail ~75% of the time, or ~66% with a +1 buff. Another value of large model counts: To better protect your "teleporting" heroes from charges and enable them to counter charge. At the same time, after scenery has been setup at the start of the game, Wyldwood Groves (a Sylvaneth Battle Trait) allows you to place 1 Wyldwoods warscroll anywhere on the table more than 1" from any other scenery. Specifically, a Wyldwoods warscroll lets you place up to 3 citadel woods up to 1" from each other. (Each citadel wood is 11" x 8".) I suspect this means that it'll be difficult for your opponent to stop you from "teleporting" within 3" of a citadel wood and within the general vicinity of where you want to go. This is especially important for Dryads. Hit rolls against them are at -1 if they are within 3" of a Wyldwood. Sylvaneth have 5 ways to generate Wyldwoods. Tournies may want to limit 1 Wyldwood warscroll to 1 or 2 citadel woods, and set a maximum overall cap. My initial, untested sense: Limit 1 Wyldwood warscroll to up to 2 citadel woods, and set the citadel wood overall cap at 6. Allowing only 1 citadel wood per Wyldwood warscroll could make it very difficult for Sylvaneth to "teleport." 9/4/16 Update: Playtesting so far has shown how important Wyldwoods usually are re: competing w/ Sylvaneth. At the moment, I probably wouldn't set a Wyldwood limit in Matched Play, but would play on a 4x6 with 10+ terrain pieces (ideally 12) to create a more inherent limit (when combined with the restrictions from enemy movement). GW has done an outstanding job designing distinct sub-armies within the Sylvaneth, even with a relatively small model range. Drycha and the Spite-Revenants especially reflect a distinct army within an army. Dreadwood Grove Battalion is a strong alphastrike for Sylvaneth. Check it out. In particular, it's Ambush ability: At the start of your first round, one of your units can be redeployed anywhere 6" or more from enemy units. This battalion also allows Spite-Revenants to re-roll wound rolls of 1. A Gnarlroot-Wargrove build that seems intriguing (2,000pts): Treelord Ancient (300) Spirit of Durthu (400) Branchwych (100) 20 Dryads (240) 10 Dryads (120) 5 Tree-Revenants (100) 5 Tree-Revenants (100) 3 Kurnoth Hunters with scythes (180) 3 Kurnoth Hunters with greatswords (180) 3 Kurnoth Hunters with greatbows (180) Gnarlroot Wargrove Battalion (80) Household Battalion (20) A walk-and-chew-gum list: shooting, magic, Wyldwoods, combat, and objective capturing. A Dreadwood-Wargrove build (1,960pts): Treelord Ancient (300) Branchwych (100) 20 Dryads (240) 10 Dryads (120) 10 Dryads (120) 5 Spite-Revenants (100) 5 Spite-Revenants (100) 5 Spite-Revenants (100) 5 Spite-Revenants (100) 9 Kurnoth Hunters with scythes (540) Dreadwood Wargrove Battalion (100) Outcasts Battalion (40) This list is especially built around alphastriking 9 Kurnoth Hunters with scythes (or greatswords) on your first turn, and controlling/contesting objectives with your other units. The list would probably struggle in Three Places of Power since it only has two heroes; but otherwise, 71 models is a good # for model-count-oriented Pitched Battles. Thanks for reading. Would love to hear your thoughts on the Sylvaneth!
  2. Let's Chat Sylvaneth

    Here's how I ruled it personally in the Wellsian Wars Player's Pack, attached, but others might house rule/play it differently.
  3. Ep 32: Honest Wargaming w/ Rob Symes

    Rob Symes joins the show to talk about his next project (5:43), the value of candor, and his time at Games Workshop working on Warhammer Live and engaging the community (59:49). Show Notes: 1) Rob on Twitter: http://twitter.com/sixdiceskills 2) Renegade Open, Nov 18-19: http://renegadeopen.com 3) First Blood, Nov 18-19: http://firstbloodgt.blogspot.com 4) Combat Phase Podcast: http://combatphase.com 5) Scruby & Wells: http://scrubyandwells.com 6) S&W on Twitter: http://twitter.com/scrubyandwells 7) Gamemat.eu (10% off code: SW2017): http://gamemat.eu
  4. Let's Chat Sylvaneth

    I believe @Liam had: Treelord Ancient (Regrowth + Gnarled Warrior? + Oaken Armour?) Branchwych (Verdant Blessing) Branchwych (Verdant Blessing) 30 Dryads 30 Dryads 5 Tree-Revenants 3 Kurnoth Scythes 3 Kurnoth Scythes 3 Kurnoth Bows 5 Sisters of the Thorn The only ally in there = Sisters of the Thorn.
  5. Ep 31: Sylvaneth w/ Shaun Clarke

    Noted AoS tournament goer Shaun Clarke is here to talk trees. After some community news and events, we get into it (9:25), covering the army list he’s taking to the Michigan GT, how Sylvaneth can stay competitive in General’s Handbook 2017, ally options, and more. Show Notes: 1) Shaun on Twitter: twitter.com/nukedoctor 2) Mortally Wounded Podcast on Sylvaneth: goo.gl/o5uAfW 3) Rob Johnson’s What’s Warhammer Series (YouTube): goo.gl/7CVinq 4) Mc1Gamer’s Unlocking AoS Series (YouTube): goo.gl/hFN29c 5) T3 Warhammer Podcast on GHB 2017: goo.gl/J1zmpT 6) Iron Halo (AoS), Oct 1: ironhalo.org 7) Wellsian Wars (AoS), Oct 21: goo.gl/9CUhqf 8) Hero Complex Games (AoS), Nov 11: goo.gl/6amDhS 9) First Blood GT (AoS), Nov 18-19: firstbloodgt.blogspot.com 10) Scruby & Wells on Twitter: twitter.com/scrubyandwells 11) Gamemat.eu (10% off code: SW2017): http://gamemat.eu
  6. Let's Chat Sylvaneth

    Hi, You can't use Tanglethorn Thicket in a turn in which you charged. In any other instance, you can use Tanglethorn Thicket in the combat phase, either your combat phase or your opponent's. However, you must announce you're going to use Tanglethorn Thicket at the start the charge phase -- again either your charge phase or your opponent's, depending on who has the turn. Hope that helps.
  7. Destruction showing at Facehammer GT - Debrief

    Hey @Chris Tomlin sorry man didn't intend at all to sound dismissive of the result, it was brilliant. I'm tempted to just delete the posts and wish I never would've raised the topic of soft scores. Anyway, sorry.
  8. Destruction showing at Facehammer GT - Debrief

    And yeah I didn't look at this in detail, but more just looked at Chris's fantastic result with Ironjawz and noticed the extra +10 on painting and +10 on sports gave him a jump from 155 -- the range for 13th to 18th place -- to 175, tying for 3rd but losing the tie-breaker to Nicky. So the comment about "soft scores were a contributing factor" was a result of seeing the difference between him finishing tied for 3rd with Ironjawz and finishing 4th vs tied for 12th where he would've finished 15th (I believe...). So my brain saw that and immediately thought "Well that seems like a notable difference." I'll freely admit that kind of reaction to a single example doesn't/shouldn't have much bearing on the topic of soft scores at tournaments. Anyway, would love to discuss all of this in depth with you some time.
  9. Destruction showing at Facehammer GT - Debrief

    Happy to discuss this some time @svnvaldez. I've admitted an emotional bias many times before on being interested in better understanding what tools can increase the number of factions and lists that can compete on top tables at tournaments -- in increasing the range of viable competitive variety at any given time. Ironjawz, Nighthaunts, Soulblight, Wanderers, Flesh-Eater Courts, Beastclaw Raiders, and many, many others are, all else equal, behind the eight ball when it comes to the top tables. With that said, it's extremely early in GH17, so surprises could happen. Ultimately, personally, I'm fine with whatever at any given time. There's no argument I can give you that it "should be a certain way." Again, it's a personal bias. I'm emotionally more attached to the notion of a broader range of factions being competitively viable on the top tables, and interested in better understanding what tools can help increase viable variety in that regard. Maybe that's a dumb thing to be interested in. Maybe it's a reasonable thing but I'm focusing on the "wrong" elements. Maybe I'm missing obvious things that you see. Maybe you have much better ideas. Maybe you have completely different interests. I'd love to better understand the perspective on hard-scores-only as well. Reece and I chatted a few weeks ago and I know he doesn't like soft scores. It'd be great to learn more about the perspective.
  10. Destruction showing at Facehammer GT - Debrief

    Soft scores were a contributing factor, which is fantastic IMO and maybe a reflection of why soft scores can be a net positive. They can be one way (among others) of giving a faction like Ironjawz, Nighthaunts, or Soulblight a better shot at a podium, whereas under hard scores only they'd have a tougher go of it on average vs SCE, Tzeentch, Murderhost, et al.
  11. Events UK: FaceHammer Grand Tournament 2 (30sep-1Oct)

    I think Sam took Les's SCE (Stardrake, 4 Fulminators, etc.), but could be wrong...
  12. Events UK: FaceHammer Grand Tournament 2 (30sep-1Oct)

    Another tourney where it seems soft scores were a large net positive, especially that brilliant placing with The Black Sunz. It seems exactly what we'd want to hope for with the inclusion of soft scores.
  13. Greatly enjoying the thread guys! Congrats to @Chris Tomlin and @Sangfroid on Facehammer too. Played against Ironjawz a couple times over the weekend with the trees. Definitely seemed like they need ally shooting. Played around with a few lists afterward and thought this one was interesting, attached. 1. 4 Rock Lobbers for quite a bit of no-LOS 44" threat w/ potential for extra attacks on 6+ (or 5+ vs 10+ models). 2. Couple solid heroes for Duality of Death. Maybe Skewer instead on Megaboss on foot but love the damage potential w/ the extra rend. 3. Decent # of units/bodies with some diversity/adaptability. 4 Rock Lobbers (or e.g. 3 Spear-Chukkas) seems like it could change the equation in certain matchups (lists/scenarios), where you could now hang back and potentially do some real ranged damage before exposing many of your units. In that regard, certain lists might decide to alpha-strike in response, but 10 Ardboys + 2x3 Gore-Gruntas should help with screening and keeping folks off the Rock Lobbers and Brutes. This is all theory, though...just wanted to share some initial ideas. Hoping to get in more games vs the 'jawz this coming weekend, this time w/ more shooting in their list! PS Allegiance is supposed to be Ironjawz...forgot to change it in Scrollbuilder.
  14. SC or Sylvaneth, if you had to choose.

    Hi there, if you're looking to play competitively a lot, e.g., looking to attend multiple tournaments, Stormcast are one of the best bets all around. They have about every tool at their disposal, multiple competitive builds, multiple playstyles, the largest model range w/ guaranteed annual expansion, great for painting and customizing to your liking, etc.
  15. Let's Chat Sylvaneth

    Hey Laurie, did you try Alarielle again or go with a different Gnarlroot for Facehammer? Looks like sylvaneth struggled again in general at the event, although I didn't see many folks running them, which was also interesting. What would you say are some of the issues you've been running into? @Mirage8112 has been focusing on Dreadwood as well and has a lot of in-depth thoughts on it.
  16. Let's Chat Sylvaneth

    @Mirage8112 - Either Nico's or Tony's that Laurie shared would be solid to test against. Just looking at them on paper makes me queasy.
  17. Let's Chat Sylvaneth

    @Lhw - Thanks for sharing your experiences so far. Does the attached look roughly like one of the top Changehost builds? Just going off top of my head (didn't specify spells etc.). We should probably just find Tony Moore's Blackout list and @Mirage8112 / et al. could test against it.
  18. Let's Chat Sylvaneth

    Love your idea! You're on, my friend. I'll put something together and send your way. And yeah it'd be awesome to hear from @Nico as well. Incidentally, I tend to agree with you on Gnarlroot vs Tzeentch, especially now that it's 250pts. Very excellent point re: "there are a hell of a lot of variables that go beyond 'competitive lists and good players'."
  19. Let's Chat Sylvaneth

    I was thinking about the recent podcast with Shaun. The following seemed worth a look as variations on the theme we discussed. The first swaps the Waywatcher and one of the 3 KH Bows for 2x5 Judicators. The second does that + swaps one of the 5 TreeRevs for a Knight-Azyros and splits the 20 Dryads into 2x10. In general, I suspect the first variation is stronger than the second. While Judicators have certain limitations over KH Bows, their RR 1s to hit vs Chaos (especially Tzeentch and Khorne) is notable. They also provide a few extra bodies for screening and/or standing back and sitting on objectives. With the second variation, the Azyros further improves the KH Bows + Judicators vs all armies via his RR 1s to hit vs any target within 10" of him. In the least, that means he probably becomes a priority target for your opponent (especially vs Chaos with his one-time D6-mortal-wound 8" bubble), so in turn he's taking attention away from something else.
  20. Let's Chat Sylvaneth

    If facing a middle-of-the-road competitive field, I think the above could do pretty well. Against a field with a lot of top lists and experienced players, though, it would probably struggle. It doesn't really have enough threats and has too many eggs in the Alarielle basket, and she's easy to kill (or chaff/ignore) for quite a few good lists, especially if you're double turned. I do think she could be viable in a mixed Order list, though, with a Loremaster and other efficient friends.
  21. Let's Chat Sylvaneth

    Cool! Yeah the Free Spirits suggestion is a good one. Spirit of Durthu is a lot of fun since he's powerful but very swingy and relatively easy to kill for quite a few armies (especially since you need to get him into combat to do his thing, which means he's often in range of lots of mortal wounds coming his way). Sometimes he'll destroy a unit, sometimes he'll whiff, and sometimes he'll die before he even makes it into combat. When he does his thing, though, he's a joy to behold. Here's one list attached that I think would be pretty fun to play while still being competitive. Good luck!
  22. Let's Chat Sylvaneth

    Agree with @Aezeal: Gnarlroot and other battalions seem tough to take in 2K, and doubly so in 1.5K. I like the look of Ancient, 20 Dryads, 5 TRevs, 6 Scythes, and 6 Bows. It could struggle in Duality of Death, so you might swap one of the 3 Kurnoth for a Treelord.
  23. Let's Chat Sylvaneth

    Accidentally double-posted and I can't seem to find the delete-post function anymore...
  24. Let's Chat Sylvaneth

    Hey @Lanoss, as you might've heard, Shaun and I chatted about this a little on the last S&W podcast, and @Asu covered similar thoughts in his recent post. All else equal, against top Tzeentch lists, I think we do have to try and play the long game, which requires reasonable long-range threat in order to harm them while staying out of 18" range of their magic (of course, it seems like most Tzeentch players are bringing a Balewind, but that's another instance where we need long-range shooting to kill any Balewind Wizard). Definitely play Tzeentch as much as you can and experiment with different approaches. For example, maybe if your opponent only has one "1" in her Destiny Dice pool (or none), try focusing on their chaff early game rather than the traditional targets (Lord of Change, Tzaangor Shaman, Blue Scribes, Herald of Tzeentch, et al.). It's probably a bad idea, but who knows (personally, I've never tried it...the big chickens and mortal-wound-spam Wizards always seem to warrant attention...). I'm hopeful @Mirage8112 or someone else with Dreadwood can manage to do well vs a good Tzeentch player with one of their top lists, and then share with the rest of us how the hell they did it (we can theory all day but of course we ultimately need to see things on the table with the right conditions (i.e., it needs to be versus a player who knows what they're doing, they need to be playing a strong Tzeentch build, etc.). I'm still pretty skeptical Dreadwood lists can compete against them, but would love to be proven wrong. They've been the most frustrating army to play against in AoS, and it seems like a lot of armies have a similar experience against them. I'm hoping to do a show soon with a top Tzeentch player about ways to counter them, but for us in particular with our low-model count and lack of mortal wound protection, yeah it's a pain in the ---, no way around it. Most Tzeentch players with strong lists seem to have no problem handling sylvaneth, but who knows, maybe we just haven't sufficiently cracked the equation yet.
  25. Let's Chat Sylvaneth

    Hi @Jak Shadow, I'd definitely recommend always assuming you have to choose either Drycha's Squirmlings or Flitterfuries for the whole tournament, rather than choosing game by game. They have missile weapon profiles, so in that regard they're the equivalent of equipment options, which of course are almost always fixed for an army list at a tournament, rather than changing equipment options from game to game. Good luck with Drycha, would love to hear how things go as you get games in.
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