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Everything posted by scrubyandwells

  1. Hi all, Hoping to start a conversation here looking at the Sylvaneth in theory and in practice using Matched Play, especially for tournies and Pitched Battles. Would love to hear about your own views and experiences. After a first-look through the battletome, here's initial impressions: Overall: The Sylvaneth are a landmark for AoS. Arguably for the first time, GW has hit for the cycle: the lore, characters, models, and rules are all strong. I hope this release reflects a new level of integrated (and growing) quality for AoS across those four components. Gnarlroot Wargrove Battalion stands out. With 2,000pts, it could be common to see 7-9 unique spells casted per round from a pool of 9-11 choices. This battalion also allows you to take an Order Wizard. A Loremaster is a good buy at 100pts to cast Hand of Glory on, e.g., Alarielle, Drycha, or a Spirit of Durthu. I love the Tree-Revenant models. If you're trying to optimize, though, Dryads seem distinctly better. Two factors stand out: Large model counts are important for Pitched Battle scenarios, given the role of model count for controlling objectives/winning. Sylvaneth Battleline units are both fragile and susceptible to battleshock (although buffs exist to improve bravery). In light of those factors and others, 10 Dryads for 120pts seems a better buy than 5 Tree-Revenants for 100pts. With the help of Wyldwoods scenery, Sylvaneth have multiple ways to "teleport." The effectiveness, though, will be affected by having to "teleport" 9" away from enemy models. At 9"+ away, charges will fail ~75% of the time, or ~66% with a +1 buff. Another value of large model counts: To better protect your "teleporting" heroes from charges and enable them to counter charge. At the same time, after scenery has been setup at the start of the game, Wyldwood Groves (a Sylvaneth Battle Trait) allows you to place 1 Wyldwoods warscroll anywhere on the table more than 1" from any other scenery. Specifically, a Wyldwoods warscroll lets you place up to 3 citadel woods up to 1" from each other. (Each citadel wood is 11" x 8".) I suspect this means that it'll be difficult for your opponent to stop you from "teleporting" within 3" of a citadel wood and within the general vicinity of where you want to go. This is especially important for Dryads. Hit rolls against them are at -1 if they are within 3" of a Wyldwood. Sylvaneth have 5 ways to generate Wyldwoods. Tournies may want to limit 1 Wyldwood warscroll to 1 or 2 citadel woods, and set a maximum overall cap. My initial, untested sense: Limit 1 Wyldwood warscroll to up to 2 citadel woods, and set the citadel wood overall cap at 6. Allowing only 1 citadel wood per Wyldwood warscroll could make it very difficult for Sylvaneth to "teleport." 9/4/16 Update: Playtesting so far has shown how important Wyldwoods usually are re: competing w/ Sylvaneth. At the moment, I probably wouldn't set a Wyldwood limit in Matched Play, but would play on a 4x6 with 10+ terrain pieces (ideally 12) to create a more inherent limit (when combined with the restrictions from enemy movement). GW has done an outstanding job designing distinct sub-armies within the Sylvaneth, even with a relatively small model range. Drycha and the Spite-Revenants especially reflect a distinct army within an army. Dreadwood Grove Battalion is a strong alphastrike for Sylvaneth. Check it out. In particular, it's Ambush ability: At the start of your first round, one of your units can be redeployed anywhere 6" or more from enemy units. This battalion also allows Spite-Revenants to re-roll wound rolls of 1. A Gnarlroot-Wargrove build that seems intriguing (2,000pts): Treelord Ancient (300) Spirit of Durthu (400) Branchwych (100) 20 Dryads (240) 10 Dryads (120) 5 Tree-Revenants (100) 5 Tree-Revenants (100) 3 Kurnoth Hunters with scythes (180) 3 Kurnoth Hunters with greatswords (180) 3 Kurnoth Hunters with greatbows (180) Gnarlroot Wargrove Battalion (80) Household Battalion (20) A walk-and-chew-gum list: shooting, magic, Wyldwoods, combat, and objective capturing. A Dreadwood-Wargrove build (1,960pts): Treelord Ancient (300) Branchwych (100) 20 Dryads (240) 10 Dryads (120) 10 Dryads (120) 5 Spite-Revenants (100) 5 Spite-Revenants (100) 5 Spite-Revenants (100) 5 Spite-Revenants (100) 9 Kurnoth Hunters with scythes (540) Dreadwood Wargrove Battalion (100) Outcasts Battalion (40) This list is especially built around alphastriking 9 Kurnoth Hunters with scythes (or greatswords) on your first turn, and controlling/contesting objectives with your other units. The list would probably struggle in Three Places of Power since it only has two heroes; but otherwise, 71 models is a good # for model-count-oriented Pitched Battles. Thanks for reading. Would love to hear your thoughts on the Sylvaneth!
  2. Great write up. I hear ya on the Frostheart Phoenix...was at the top of my list (...had a "Jadeheart Phoenix" planned out and everything). Sunday was pretty jarring, mainly because there's signs pointing toward the main concern I had coming true: that sylvaneth proper will have to become a Dryads-horde army to be sufficiently viable at tournaments. It's definitely too early to know, though,...personally just starting to look at potential new lists, look at other factions and see how much of a hit they took, and look at a bunch of other variables. In general, we're still dealing with quite limited information. I'm hopeful in a couple of weeks, we'll be more optimistic, and in two months, we'll be a lot more optimistic. Hopefully. In terms of Stormcast, I did a minisode the other day looking at SCE as allies for us. I think there's a lot to like and expect we'll see a lot of sylvaneth builds at tournies running some SCE allies. One thing I may have underrated in the episode was Vanguard Raptors w/ Hurricane Crossbows as an anti-horde option. I thought Dan Street @ AoS Shorts summarized the situation well recently: "Anti-horde output, mortal wound output and cheap but resilient 5 wound buff heroes is what we lack & can supplement with allies." SCE can help us with all three. At the moment, I'm mostly concerned about our capacity to compete vs certain horde lists, like 120-150 fast-moving Bloodletters via Murderhost w/ plenty of room left over for heroes (Bloodsecrator, Bloodstoker, etc.). And horde lists with extremely high wound count could be very difficult as well. It also looks like Kharadron Zilfin w/ Endrinrigger and/or Skywarden spam (especially the former) is still going to be quite potent and cripple a lot of builds in the first round before they've done anything. That's another one where horde-Dryads would help, but personally I didn't get into sylvaneth to play a horde army, so the idea of putting a mass of Dryads on the table isn't appealing.
  3. Yeah. Just lots of new variables to consider, which is both exciting and unnerving. My 2K army, though, was blown up. It's now 2,280pts. That happened to a lot of armies and players. It was a painful pill to swallow, but it's done. Time to learn, adapt, and move forward.
  4. Thanks for the breakdown. Still reeling from the battalion a-bomb that dropped today, affecting a very large # of players/armies/factions. It's a new reality for many of us, including, I suspect, a lot of matched play sylvaneth players. Going to take it slow and try to wrap my head around everything. Pretty dizzying at the moment.
  5. Thanks very much for the update and analysis. So far this matches my expectations (below). Hopefully Bwych/Bwraith will drop 20 to further off-set Hunters and Gnarlroot. Based on @Chris Tomlin's excellent Ironjawz preview, it now sounds like Gnarlroot will be 120 or even 140 rather than the previously-expected 100.
  6. FWIW here's my initial impression, based on the (known) information at hand: The main issue isn't whether one agrees or disagrees with the warscroll update – it's whether the update was communicated as appropriately and thoughtfully as possible. In that regard, choosing GHB2017 as the place to communicate this substantial update, for the very first time, seems to leave a lot to be desired, especially since it negatively affects KO players who've bought multiple Grundstok Thunderers boxes, in order to give all of them – usually – Aethercannons or Mortars. Given the lead time required to finalize/print GHB2017, it would seem the warscroll update could've been shared maybe as early as two months ago on the Warhammer Community website, similar to how 40K matched play changes were handled recently, with the latter widely praised as a great approach. On the secondary issue, the warscroll update itself, I think it's a positive sign they're open to refining warscrolls. Update: Definitely agree it makes sense to include the warscroll update in an official print doc...just seems it could've also been shared with customers/community as early as possible via Warhammer Community, which would've reduced negatively impacting folks.
  7. Some thoughts on sylvaneth's known (and potential) allies in General's Handbook 2017. And just as a heads up, I've come around on Stormcast's Vanguard Raptors with Longstrikes (thanks, Jacob). Show Notes: 1) AoS Spotlight – Sylvaneth – Part 6: 2) (10% off code: SW2017): View the full article
  8. Probably a joke about the list being common / repeated after Les Martin popularized it on FaceHammer.
  9. Here you go: Treelord Ancient Drycha Branchwych 10 Dryads 5 Tree-Revenants 5 Tree-Revenants 6 Kurnoth Hunters w/ Scythes 3 Kurnoth Hunters w/ Greatbows 3 Kurnoth Hunters w/ Greatbows 3 Kurnoth Hunters w/ Greatbows Gnarlroot Wargrove Household
  10. Recapping my games at the recent Age of Sigmar tournament at the Slobberknocker GT in Oklahoma City, OK. The shows on sylvaneth ally options in General's Handbook 2017 + listener Q&A will be out shortly. Show Notes: 1) Slobberknocker GT AoS Scenarios: 2) AoS Shorts - General’s Handbook 2017: 3) The Black Sun Podcast w/ AoS Shorts’ Dan Street: 4) Mortally Wounded Podcast: 5) Garagehammer Podcast - How to Run a GT: 6) IC Podcast - Picking the Right 40K Army: 7) Through the Realmgate Podcast w/ Steve Foote: 8) AoS @ Michigan GT (10/6-8): 9) AoS @ Siegeworld (8/27): 10) Warhammer Weekly: 11) Topic of the Week - Warhammer Community: 12) Elric Edge’s Epic Sylvaneth Rant: 13) Rolling Bad Podcast - Slobberknocker Recap: 14) (10% off w/ code: SW2017): View the full article
  11. Recapping my games at the recent Age of Sigmar tournament at the Slobberknocker GT in Oklahoma City, OK. The shows on sylvaneth ally options in General's Handbook 2017 + listener Q&A will be out shortly. Show Notes: 1) Slobberknocker GT AoS Scenarios: 2) AoS Shorts - General’s Handbook 2017: 3) The Black Sun Podcast w/ AoS Shorts’ Dan Street: 4) Mortally Wounded Podcast: 5) Garagehammer Podcast - How to Run a GT: 6) IC Podcast - Picking the Right 40K Army: 7) Through the Realmgate Podcast w/ Steve Foote: 8) AoS @ Michigan GT (10/6-8): 9) AoS @ Siegeworld (8/27): 10) Warhammer Weekly: 11) Topic of the Week - Warhammer Community: 12) Elric Edge’s Epic Sylvaneth Rant: 13) Rolling Bad Podcast - Slobberknocker Recap: 14) (10% off w/ code: SW2017): View the full article
  12. Some who had meaningful influence on informing the points at the (seemingly) relevant time seemed to think they were undercosted, and I believe they thought they were sufficiently so (again at the time) to warrant a 40pt bump. I've held the view for a while FWIW they're reasonably well-priced within sylvaneth allegiance overall (but I could see the case for a 20pt bump), but underpriced within mixed Order. On the whole, I think 200 is fine and wouldn't likely trigger a net nerf. A primary concern, though, is Hunters going up 40 and sylvaneth not being sufficiently rebalanced internally to avoid that net nerf, with the exception of potentially adding in Allies. Of course, we're dealing with very limited information. Maybe they'll be a lot stronger in GH2017, which could also be an issue in the other direction since they've been in a pretty good spot in my view - not dominating at all, but quite viable. It's tough to assess these things with such limited information; eg the Ironjawz feedback project I facilitated with Nico and others was based on Ironjawz as they were, and the landscape and meta as it was, rather than factoring in Ironjawz allegiance abilities and how they'd affect their units and overall faction. Ultimately, though, I'm hopeful for our beloved trees.
  13. Yeah had been thinking about an Assassin as well (another ex: Moonstoning an Ancient, getting off the 4+ charge, and popping out the Assassin), but it'll probably be a moot point, since it seems (appropriately) unlikely Shadowblades will be an Allies option for us.
  14. Thanks @Mirage8112 for kicking this off and for everyone sharing their views. Fun topic. Here's some of my own thoughts FWIW: 1. Sylvaneth are still competitive in the meta but not dominating, and they never have. They're often in the running, though, which is where one would hope they'll stay. 2. I'm as confident as possible Hunters are going up, whether justified or not, which (seemingly) means we'll need to get points back elsewhere to maintain the faction's internal competitive viability. Of course, Allies will throw us a big wrinkle. At the same time, I don't think Allies should be required to be competitive in matched play / at tournaments. 3. I suspect Hunters will go up to 220, so that's going to be a sizable hit for many lists, including the Alarielle (6 or 9 KH) / Drycha (12 or 15 KH) / Durthu (12 KH) variations of Gnarlroot. 4. Gnarlroot is probably going to go up by at least 20 as well. Hopefully Household will stay at 20, even though I could see it going up 20 too. 5. Let's take the (common) list I ran last weekend at Slobberknocker: Ancient, Durthu, BWych, 2x10 Dryads, 1x5 TRevs, 2x3 Scythes, 2x3 Greatbows, Gnarlroot, Household, Free Spirits. With KH @ 220 + Gnarlroot @ 100, that list suddenly becomes 2,180pts. Personally, I think that list (among others we have) represents a baseline of strength we'd want maintained. The list hasn't been winning many tournaments. It has multiple counters, especially, as always, mortal wound output. 6. So where do we get those 180pts back? (For ref, it's 220pts you'd have to get back in the common Drycha Gnarlroot variant w/ 15 KH.) The seeming need to get so many points back is why I'm hoping we'll see the following units drop in points, because they reflect units that are (primarily) only interesting choices within sylvaneth allegiance: Dryads - 100 for 10 (at the moment their fine at 120, but again, if we need to get points back, this is a way of doing it; and personally I'm not a fan at all of the idea of getting points back by having to run a Massive Regiments unit of general concern is sylvaneth moving away from its viability as an elite, low-model-count army, which is personally one of the big reasons I love the faction) TRevs - 80 for 5 or 140 for 10 (since they come in an box of 5, I'm really hoping you don't have to buy 2 boxes to run a minimum unit...that'll cause some grief) Spite Revs - 80 for 5 (...and if they become a minimum unit of 10, that'll do away our hopes for Dreadwood...I don't think many want to run 40 Spite Revs) Treelord - 240 (I think one could shave off 20 pts (he's currently 260) and it'd be fine, but 40pts seems too much, especially with Behemoths becoming more relevant in at least one of the new Pitched Battles (Duality of Death) Branchwych and Branchwraith - 80 (again, doesn't seem a huge issue to shave off 20pts) Spirit of Durthu - 380 (I doubt he'll get 20pts shaved off, but would love to see it, because in the aggregate it could make a major difference to 2K lists) 7. So going back to the list in #5, if the above had those new point values, my Slobberknocker list would now be 2,040pts. That's better than 2,180pts, but it's still illegal. 8. Here's my guess on other point values: Alarielle - 580 (would love to see her drop a little again to help off-set Hunters going up, but in current sylvaneth points, she's not too bad at 620...if you use her well, she can be insanely problem, though, is you can run up against lists that can take her out in the 1st round even if she's deployed on the board edge) Ancient - 300 (Lord of Change is 300, and both seem about right at that amount) Drycha - 280 (She seems fine at 280, especially if horde armies are going to become more prominent)
  15. I've found TRevs especially useful at events w/ secondary objectives, which is pretty common. Often I've seen secondary objectives that require high mobility (e.g., getting a unit off the table via your opponent's deployment zone, tagging multiple terrain features, tagging multiple board edges, etc.). In general, though, I also tend to keep them in the hidden enclaves and bring them on later for an objective or for setting up a key screen. Every once in a while it'll make sense to try and get off a 9" charge on a vulnerable Hero, but at their current price, I haven't found that a reliable role.
  16. Really fun following this event on Twitter. A shout out from across the pond to everyone involved in making it happen. Anyone know Andy Hughes' sylvaneth build? A third place finish looks outstanding given the strength of the field. Would love to have Andy on the podcast to chat about his experience with the trees at BOBO.
  17. That all seems pretty solid. Personally, I'm not a fan of running the Balewind, especially since sylvaneth are already quite strong, but this is just a personal bias. If you're interested in running Alarielle, I'm a big fan of the attached list from Laurie (@Lhw), who finished 3rd with it at the AoS GT Heat 3 last month. It's also somewhat similar to the Alarielle list that Austin (@AustinTheMan) took to LVO earlier this year (he finished 2nd overall), although Austin wasn't running Gnarlroot Wargrove. As with many sylvaneth lists, it requires careful play and can be unforgiving to many mistakes; but I think it's quite strong overall, and, based on personal experience (I've been playtesting a similar Alarielle build for a while), a lot of fun to play, since it enables you to do a bit of everything. Some notes on the list: A lot of players have been running Branchwych w/ both Acorn of the Ages and Verdant Blessing. In this case, Alarielle has Verdant Blessing. I'm a fan of this for multiple reasons, e.g., let's say you're facing a one-drop army, which finishes deploying before you, then goes first, and then proceeds to take out the Branchwych before she's had a chance to generate a Wyldwood with her Acorn of the Ages. In that case, you've still got a reliable way to generate Wyldwoods -- Alarielle w/ Verdant Blessing. Branchwych w/ Throne of Vines is solid since you can often get her to a spot to hang out for a while (Throne of Vines stays up without recasting as long as the caster doesn't move), and then she can cast 2 spells w/ +D3 to cast. Even if she's moving and then only casting 1 spell w/ +D3 to cast, she gives you a more reliable way to get off Verdurous Harmony for replenishing your Kurnoth Hunters. Oaken Armour is more common for the Ancient, but personally, I'm a fan of Moonstone of the Hidden Ways, since it turns him into an amazing utility piece (Moonstoning the Ancient has helped me win multiple games, and it's just a ton of fun to play). Of course, this makes the Ancient a little less resilient, so there's definitely some tradeoffs to consider. Alarielle's shooting attack, the Ancient's, and the 6 greatbows give you a solid amount of long-range damage potential. This means a lot of armies will have to come to you, which in turn combines well with optimizing your Wyldwoods + the 7 spells you can cast from the list, e.g. for triggering Roused by Magic rolls on those Wyldwoods. You've got some bodies in the 2x10 Dryads for screening off key pieces (e.g. w/ 3 scythes behind one of them swinging over the top), sitting on objectives in cover in a Wyldwood, etc. Definitely be careful about how you use sylvaneth battleline, though, since they can die pretty easily and are easy to waste. You've got some combat punch in the list (Alarielle + 3 scythes especially) to deal real damage. Unfortunately, Alarielle's beetle can sometimes get lazy and not do much for you, and of course gets weaker as she takes damage. @Lhw might have other thoughts, since he has a lot more practice with this Alarielle-list variation.
  18. Some personal, quite-subjective reflections on AoS, it's community, Warhammer Live, podcasting, and more. Speaking of podcasting, I've gotta get better at breathing through my nose, and pick up a microphone windscreen. Good lord. Hopefully the breathing isn't too annoying. Thank you to everyone, guests and listeners alike, who's made doing this podcast so worthwhile. Here's to the next 25 shows. Show Notes: 1) S&W on Twitter: 2) (10% off code: SW2017): View the full article
  19. Right on! Also excited to switch to an Alarielle build once GH2017 is out.
  20. Yeah, no artefacts of any kind for a Loremaster in Gnarlroot, and no Deepwood lore spell. They do get access to Gnarlroot's Verdurous Harmony spell, though. Incidentally, if a Loremaster is a viable Ally option for sylvaneth in GH2017, you could take a Loremaster in the Ironbark Wargrove and give them the Ironbark Talisman artefact. It's not a great choice for them...but it's something.
  21. That's a scary-looking list! Sadly, since the general expectation is Hunters will be somewhere around 220 in GH2017, that list probably won't be viable when the new book comes out. Re: whether sylvaneth can be effective without much shooting, a local friend/player and I have been chatting recently about that very subject. He thinks at least 4 units of MSU combat Hunters (scythes/swords) is the way to go (playing them aggressively), even against armies with a lot of chaff / bodies. I haven't tried it out, so it would be great to see some folks go for it against a wide variety of opponents/lists. Personally, I'm concerned about it going up against armies with a ton of chaff / bodies that also have powerful damage output from shooting and magic sitting behind their chaff. Two examples would be the infamous "Mooclan" build (x3 Huskard on Thundertusk, x1 Frostlord on Stonehorn, x3 20 Moonclan Grots with Fanatics, x1 Grot Shaman), and Tzeentch with lots of cheap Horrors with Skyfires and multiple mortal-wound-dealing Wizards screened off by the Horrors. Against those kinds of lists, I suspect even x4 MSU scythes would have a tough time reaching the real threats before the Hunters have been reduced significantly; but maybe not. As we know, their damage output is often amazing, so maybe they could break through the chaff lines with enough strength left.
  22. Hi, both lists seem pretty interesting. I'd probably go w/ the 1st option (w/ 3x3 Hunters). It gives you 2 good targets for Hand of Glory: TLA + Drycha (personally I'm a fan of running TLA w/ Moonstone of the Hidden Ways + Hand of Glory, turning him into a scary threat that your opponent has to worry about, although he is a little more vulnerable without Oaken Armour, so if putting him in harm's way, you may also want to make sure Mystic Shield is on him). 3x3 Hunters would allow you to run 2x3 w/ bows and 1x3 w/ swords (or scythes). The 2x3 bows often seems like a minimum to me for a good all-comers, general-purpose sylvaneth build; e.g., vs Khorne, you'll want to do some early damage w/ shooting, magic, and Wyldwoods before they get into you. 1st option seems a little more balanced: 6 spells, 2 big blocks of Dryads (just be careful about how they're used; I've often lost them due to poor play, in particular putting them in harm's way unnecessarily), 3 combat threats in TLA + Drycha + 1x3 Hunter-swords, long-range damage output via 2x3 Hunter-bows, etc.
  23. Latest article in the Warhammer Community sylvaneth series is up. Shout out to @Mirage8112 for his contributions to the article.
  24. Jacob Burleson joins the show to share his experience serving the Blood God in Age of Sigmar. We talk Matched Play, list building, battalions, under-rated warscrolls, and many Wrathmamas. Show Notes: 1) Jacob on Twitter: 2) (10% off code: SW2017): 3) Scruby & Wells on Twitter: 4) Rolling Bad Rumble 2017: 5) AoS @ Siegeworld 2017: View the full article
  25. Rob Moar (Moarhammer) is here to revel us with tales of Tzeentchian plots concealed within machinations so shrouded with secrecy, one wonders why he's on a bloody podcast in the first place. Show Notes: 1) Moarhammer on YouTube: 2) Moarhammer on Twitter: 3) Through the Realmgates Podcast: 4) AoS GT Aug 4-6 @ Slobberknocker: 5) AoS 1-day Aug 27 @ Siegeworld: 6) AoS Narrative Event Organizers Network: 7) AoS Shorts Podcast: 8) The Black Sun Podcast: 9) (10% off code: SW2017): 10) Tectonic Craft Studios: View the full article