Thomas Lyons

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Thomas Lyons last won the day on August 11

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About Thomas Lyons

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  1. An Arkanaut Company, backed by 1 Khemist, at the same range (12") will do 15.25 against non-heroes, non-monsters against a 4+ save (with no rerolls). Against a hero or monster, under the same factors, will do 21.12 (no rerolls). Oh, and they have 50% more models, such that they'll maintain their damage for a much longer time since they kill chaff and are able to keep the big guns around. At a 18" range, the unit is doing 10 damage and 14 damage respectively against a 4+ (with no rerolls). At a 24" range, the unit maintains this same damage...and the Thunderers can't touch anything that far out. Edit: For the record, it should be noted that the Arkanauts are clocking in at 40 less points in this comparison (360 vs. 400 of the Thunderers).
  2. For perspective, if you wanted to grab a tank unit, you could grab a massive block of 30 Vulkite Berserkers with shields for 330 points. This block of Berserkers are 4+ in close combat when they don't charge, and have a ward/FnP save that scales from 4+ to 6+ based on how many models they have in the unit and allows you to shake both normal damage and mortal wounds. The unit, when it charges, rolls a dice for every one of its models and ever 6 is a mortal wound to a unit it charged (so an average of 5 mortal wounds to any unit they charge); they get to reroll one of their charge dice too. Once they are into melee, each model has 2 attacks at 4+/4+/-1 rend/1 damage. And for icing, they all have an 8" ranged attack that might do a couple wounds when used en mass. All for 330 points, and they're even Duardin.
  3. Maybe? The problem is that, as they are with the GHB2017 changes, they don't have a function on the battlefield. What are they doing? With a wounds increase, and a focus on short range weapons, they might be able to serve as tanks/anvils for the army, especially with their 4+ save and the fumigator's ability to reduce attacks. Having an anvil unit like this would fill a niche, but they're competing for valuable space given the high price on the ships (behemoths with generally bad attacks and saves for their points) and the requirement that KO armies must ALWAYS have at least 3 units of Arkanaut Company (since there are no other battleline units in the faction and you can't use allies to fulfill battleline requirements). So, increasing their wounds would help, although they're competing for space in a faction with high unit prices and no alternative battleline options. Both of these factors would likely limit how many of these guys hit the table.
  4. The other question obviously is if they are going to do this with Arkanaut Company since their contents don't represent their builds, as you only get 1 of each weapon even though you can equip them with three of any weapon. Are they going to ruin Company too and, if not, they seem less than consistent with their reasoning.
  5. I did indeed talk about it it could be competitive. But indeed there is a difference with a list/unit being competitive and "purchasing wins," is there not? This unit was a strategic tool in the KO tool box. A high cost per wound unit of all specialized weapon users, rather than those units that had special weapons mixed in. They're tied for highest cost per wound for any non-ship, non-hero. Now, they aren't even reasonably playable. This is my concern. Will do. It was my understanding given the warscroll and their wound and prior matched play profile that they were a specialized artillery force rather than a mishmash of short range weapons or a mediocre mid range weapon unit. To put things into perspective, 10 Company who are equipped with either ranged option will outperform a Thunderer unit at range, whether they are at 12", 18" or 24"... and they have almost double the wounds while being almost the same cost (the Thunderers being 20 points cheaper). If the desire was to have these guys as a heavy short range, diverse weapon firing squad, then the weapon profiles on the five troops needed to be improved. But they didn't and so we're left with 2.5 viable troop units and only one unit that can amass bodies in any significant way to actually claim objectives in the new GHB2017 world.
  6. Plague touched Warband was actually one of the battalions that went down in cost, which went from 140 to 100. Likewise, my block of Chaos Warriors went from 540 to 480 because of the massive regiments. I lost 40 points on Be'lakor, who went 240 to 280 and 40 points on my Sorc, who went from 120 to 160. So my net gain is 20 points right now, and I previously had a 120 point reinforcement pool. So, I still have a flex pool of 140 for my list. Some of that will be eaten up by Sayl, assuming he is even still fieldable (personally, I think they are going to change the fly spell itself, which I won't have an interest in him if they do). If I have to drop him, I might go with a summoning option that lets me throw 3 dice at a spell and hope for a 20 block of Plaguebearers I can summon to slow the enemy's approach and give my Chaos Warriors time to advance. (This is all assuming I don't jump ship to a SCE Vanguard Wing that would give me a teleporting block of 30 Liberators, whose mobility can't be stopped and who can string themselves out farther and who are a bajillion times more effective with all of their procs, as well as a host of ranged attacks)
  7. Auroch, you are dead on. I think this will be one of the most scariest competitive lists out there (dead serious). People just don't know how scary this is.
  8. Bold/emphases added by me. This. This is exactly my point. People reacted without proper testing and experience. The reality is that 10 Cannons would get 1 round of shooting, possibly 2 (if the KO player doubled turned and there were more enemies still within range) before they would get wiped off the table. They were extremely fragile with no actually means of self defense if something go into them. Once they were dropped onto the table, their low mobility coupled with short range made it easy to keep them out of the fights where they would be actually needed after their initial volley. The problem with these Thunderer units is that they were a powerful yet limited tool. Now Thunderers aren't even functional for their points and KO have been restricted to having only 3 playable units and 3 overpriced ships that are of limited functionality as well. This is obviously compounded by the fact that they only have one battleline option and 3 of their 4 heroes are now 140 points and the other one is pretty worthless. This move has shifted KO back towards basically spamming a single attack or two to even have a shot at being competitive. You'll see one or two builds of KO crop up in the competitive scene and that'll be it. The emerging meta will be dominated by masses of bodies, and KO will likely struggle to compete, as they'll simply be overwhelmed. Armies that can't deal with 90-120+ Bloodletters are going to struggle to perform on top tables, and KO simply don't have an answer to those kinds of forces.
  9. I would expect they'll actually rewrite Sayl's scroll rather than just repoint him. Those who are perceptive will notice that the Rogue Idol's scroll has also been rewritten. I suspect we won't be dealing with Sayl (at least how bad he was previously) for much longer.
  10. Actually, it might be more complicated than that. The pages of the French version have the Khemist at 100 and Thunderers at 140. The English version apparently has Thunderers at 100 and Khemists at 140.
  11. I haven't either. I've been looking for them. That list has only gotten more points available with the changes :-)
  12. Honestly? I suspect it is twofold. It's the common sense change for new players to the faction so that those players get the actual bits that a unit can build with in the box itself. This obviously isn't all of it though since similar changes haven't been implemented on Arkanaut Company, Stormfiends, or any of the other units with similar equipment situations. I suspect it's also to head off the hypothetical Thunderer apocalypse of Mortar or Aethercannons deathstars that will supposably dominate the tournament scene. I say hypothetical because this has never been manifest in reality. KO have never won a major event and there aren't even reports of any heavy thunderer lists showing up. The irony is that if this really is their intent; they've missed the mark completely. In fact, you can do almost the same stuff with heavy Company lists, and yet this is still fully viable. If balance is the issue, they still haven't fixed anything with KO; power gamers are just going to stack Khemist buffs on Company's Light Skyhooks and Endrinrigger's Chainsaws. The issue has never been mono-weapon; it has always been an issue of stacking buffs. In this circumstance, it has to do with Khemists; the TK nerf was about stacking bonus to wound buffs. Ultimately, all of these are treating symptoms of a systemic problem. Unfortunately, I've had this exact conversation with Ben Johnson in person, as well as providing a write-up for GW on the issue. Thunderers are just the most recent victim and scapegoat to the systemic problem, and until it is addressed, units will continue to fall victim to these huge nerfs into uselessness. So, in the end, I'm sure they had "reasons", but I'm also fairly certain they were misplaced and not fully understood. That's probably more than what you asked for, it's my answer.
  13. I'm sorry you feel like people were trying to "purchase wins". Some of us were just trying to play the rules and build units that were aesthetically pleasing (rather than looking like a mob stumbling out of an armory). Your question demonstrates a lack of understanding the value of list building as a skill and also ignorance as to gamer psychographic profiles (i.e. what incentivizes particular gamer types and what qualifies as "fun"). The community is diverse and it's in the best interest of the health of the community to stay that way.
  14. It's different than the Moonclan situation. Those said some can be equipped with nets. This said all can be equipped with any combination. Very different.
  15. Not true, since every shooting model needs to be within 12", you'll need to check to make sure each weapon is within range.