Aezeal

And if no actual move is made... the ability doesn't fire? That makes it sort of useless so it seems unlogical.

The Sylvaneth command trait ' Lord of Spites ' gives enemy units that finish a pile-in move within 3' of that general -1 on A for melee weapons. I've assumed it was an auto effect. In my last game my opponent said 'but I'm not moving my model' - it was a unit of bloodletters (the effect effectively halves their damage so was very welcome) which had a charge move which was much more than the minimum needed so every model was already correctly positioned. He didn't make a point of it (he was winning) and we gave them -1 attack. Soon I'll be playing in a tournament and considering the wording of the rule I could see a compative crowd making a point about it. What is the general verdict?

Well if you are not really knowledgeable of your whole army next time don't let him redeploy It would've made the match more even for sure.

So while you say TL aren't bad I still have the impression you consider them subpar which leads me to think you you might be of the opinion the best Oakenbrow list should max out on Durthu's for hitting power? And ignore the regular TL's because while not really bad they just aren't good enough? No TL but just minimal dryads or revenants? (I'd go Tree rev's unless you really need those last points).If you take 2 Durthu's, the Hive and 3x 5 T-revs you are on 1110 that means you can pick 2 out of 3 from 3th Durthu/TLA/Lady of vines but not all three. The magic department is a tough choice. TLA seems a natural fit for Oakenbrow. But a Lady of vines to secure the + 1 attack and get the ward? A hard choice since the TLA with the oakenbrow bonus isn't bad and while starting with 3 places of power and 1 forest is nice the option to place one in enemy territory could be major. Alternatively you could go 2x<10 wound hero's to get the warlord battalion for an extra artifact. Warsong + wych, wych + wych? Or even the archrevenant...his command ability is a match with Durthu's than with TL/TLA and he is the cheapest option. Or minimal magic for an extra Durthu but no extra artifact: 4 x Durthu, 3x5 Trev and wych + hive Or ****** magic and say: 4 Durthu, 3x5 T rev and an archrevenant? While 4 Durthu's is nice I think just a wych and the hive a are a bit to weak as support. Allegiance: Sylvaneth- Grand Strategy:- Triumphs:LeadersSpirit of Durthu (370)Spirit of Durthu (370)Spirit of Durthu (370)The Lady of Vines (325)Branchwych (130)Battleline5 x Tree-Revenants (110)5 x Tree-Revenants (110)5 x Tree-Revenants (110)Endless Spells & InvocationsSpiteswarm Hive (40)Total: 1935 / 2000Reinforced Units: 0 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 87Drops: 8 You could also take the gladewyrm then.

Not having played a game yet its hard to tell (but wasn't going to try all treelord anyway) but in my mind the idea of the treelords wan't viable. They'd nataurally have problems with table control and objectives and while the warscrolls have improved the points have gone up, quite significantly for the standard TL imho (who lost a movement point I now see). Lash and Tangle and Oakenbrow might be stronger than I give it credit for though. Will be really interesting to hear about it from someone who tried. But no reason not to look at it a bit more: 1. I'd say that you'd have to leverage teleporting with Walk the hidden Paths and Spirit Paths in combination with Spite swarm hive. (and Strike and fade) 2. There doesn't seem much need for Alarielle, warsong revenant or arch revenant since they don't really combo with TL. 3. Lady of Vines and the being in 6'' of a wildwood thing is nice and also she's a dual caster with a great warscroll spell that actually works well with single models that can easily be kept within 12''. Drycha just is a nice unit to have too being a jack of all trades and doing MW. Both are somewhat big tree models so they fit in the army theme too. 4. I think Oakenbrow could really really use the 'magnificent' batallion ability for an extra artifact (ancient tome, Gladius, Crown of Fell bowers, vesperal gem all seem nice).. but sadly if you go battleline trees it's not possible to get it. Actually you can only get line breaker and lord of the clans. So to list building: I consider a Durthu warsinger as general a given personally. A TLA seems needed too with the Spitswarm hive, and then 3 battleline TL. Which means 1550 point are gone. Leaves 450 points. 450 points in only 1 more model. Due to the lack of casters I'd say a the Lady of vines might be the best choice now. Also, unline a Durthu or a TLA it leaves just enough room to sneak in a unit of Tree revenants who might be nice to screen or take a lost objective. So that would be something like this: Allegiance: Sylvaneth- Glade: Oakenbrow- Mortal Realm: Ghyran- Grand Strategy:- Triumphs: InspiredLeadersThe Lady of Vines (325)- Lore of the Deepwood: TreesongSpirit of Durthu (370)*- General- Command Trait: Warsinger- Artefact: Greenwood GladiusTreelord Ancient (360)- Lore of the Deepwood: RegrowthBattleline5 x Tree-Revenants (110)Treelord (260)*Treelord (260)*Treelord (260)*Endless Spells & InvocationsSpiteswarm Hive (40)Core Battalions*LinebreakerTotal: 1985 / 2000Reinforced Units: 0 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 90Drops: 7 I'd say that Reaping, Dwindling and Everdusk would all be good seasons for this army.. I think I'd You could drop the gladius and go vesperal gem and maybe take throne of vines for some uber regeneration on the TLA and then do regrowth (which you need I think) on the Lady. Also ToV would be a possibility with Dwindling.. but even with a reroll 9+ is not that great. the BL TL aren't counted toward behemoth limit here.. is that correct? Only batteline not batteline, behemoth? And about the Heartwood Hunters: I think with a few support characters they'd certainly be decent.

Anyway going for a 1250 points game Tuesday. Allegiance: Sylvaneth- Glade: Gnarlroot- Mortal Realm: Ghyran- Grand Strategy:- Triumphs:LeadersWarsong Revenant (305)*- General- Command Trait: Spellsinger- Artefact: The Vesperal Gem- Lore of the Deepwood: Verdurous HarmonyBranchwych (130)*- Lore of the Deepwood: TreesongArch-Revenant (120)*Battleline5 x Tree-Revenants (110)*10 x Dryads (100)Units3 x Kurnoth Hunters with Kurnoth Greatswords (250)3 x Revenant Seekers (235)Core Battalions*WarlordTotal: 1250 / 1500Reinforced Units: 0 / 3Allies: 0 / 300Wounds: 68Drops: 7 Was planning on The Dwindling. Haven't picked a stratagy yet and haven't picked a 2nd batallion (which will probably be headhunters) since I'm not sure yet whether my opponent has the new GHB already. Also: the new strategies (both GHB and sylvaneth) seem damn hard to complete. Looking at the magic stuff Vesperal gem + dwindling + gnarlroot (+ spell singer but thats different) seems overkill for this list but might even be much for 2K points. Since the Dwindling effect has a condition and isn't really stronger than the other 2 I'm even considering going Everdusk which doesn't seem better for a magic list in a vacuum but considering the stuff I already have to improve casting it might just give me more bang for my buck (the Hunters would become Scythes then - just noticed the rend -3 NICE). Also not sure about the enhancement. I'm thinking either spell enhancement, arcane tome (on wych or archrev) or crown of fell bowers on the Archrev.

God that was stupid. I actually looked at the warscroll before I posted but thought I knew what lifebloom was about when I saw the 2D6 healing. Also I probably didn't read well enough because I was thinking he was talking about the Seed of Rebirth (which can't be on Alarielle). Mea culpa for that too.

Missed this before but: how can we bring her back?

Hadn't picked up the book yet but I'm happy with it at first glance. So far I've not looked to much at the new units since I only got a box of the bugriders but the improvement in battletraits is significnant I like my trees magic so looking at magic heavy lists is what I do first. In that line of thinking I'm happy to see that getting all good magic stuff (not all units but items etc) in a single list is now relatively easy even so though the change in Throne of Vines is a minus I think we are getting a big buff to magic trees. I think that using either Alarielle, warsong or a the lady means using a lot of 7+ spells, which in turns means you'll default to at least 2 out of 3 of Vesperal gem item, the dwindling season and gnarlroot glade. And especially with warsong spell that means you might was well take spellsinger as well right? The 5+ for the Branchwych spell is a rather big thing IMHO too since to get a 2nd artifact you'll often need it and getting double damage output on an AoE damage spell could certainly help... just having more relevant AoE damage spells is always good. The increase inpoints won't help when list building I fear. Less magic focussed: - Lots more options to be in range of forests (and now ofc overgrown terrain). With - defensive stance for archrevenant seems so much better than offensive that unless you really need to kill the target it's nearly autopicked. - The ironbark, winterleaf glades don't seem much use anymore and while not useless dreadwood and harvestboon seems also subpar compared to Oakenbrow, Gnarlroot and heartwood. Harvestboons seems really only usefull for a specific list (obviously) but if that list isn't strong itself it's just not worth it. Oakenbrow and Gnarlroot are obviously also list specific (though gnarlroot seems to have some options about how to go about magic) but the bonus seems strong. Heartwood has a list independant and not weak bonus and seems the default when not going magic or big trees (battleline hunters :drool:) Obviously if magic is as viable as it seems I'll be playing Gnarlroot till next book at least. All in all most bonusses are weaker than they where but having free choice of traits and artifacts makes it ok. For combat lists you loose a bit here I guess. On traits: Nurtered by magic seems relatively weak. Crown of fell bowers seems to much work to get most out of it, unless on a Durthu but then the gladius just seems better anyway. Luneths lamp seems relatively weak too. The Trevs and spites: double wounds for 50% or less increase in points: I'll take it thank you very much. Dryads losing the save bonus is nasty but -1 to both hit and wound means they won't die right away...still.. with the new wounds on revenant types they don't have more wounds per package and their damage output is lower without the +1 to hit on your own turn. Really hard to justify taking them atm. Skeaths wild hunt not getting 2 wounds each is a missed chance. Yltharis and her guardians on the other hand actually have the double wounds. 180 points for 11 wounds now + casting and dispelling doesn't seem to bad... but her spell is worse than a regular wych.. and while the unit damage per model might be a bit better than a regular not having teleport is kind of a big thing. just having a T rev and wych is 240 points and gives a bit more of everything. I guess I'll pass, though it might be worth remembering if you need to cut a few points for something important. Questions: 1. Does Lord of spites work if there was no actual move in pile in phase? 2. Trevs marital memories: Seems there will be a lot of AoA and AoD around, stronger ability than it was even though it doesn't work on the charge roll now. But: can you use AoA on a different unit if you use it on the Trevs in the same phase. It's not issued etc but last line of core rule 6.1 seems to imply you still can't use it twice right? 3. Is the sundering strike change a nerf or not? 4. what is the verdict on the Treelords? : the number of wounds and the wound table is obviously a massive improvement.. but the melee weapons of the TL and TLA seem weaker even with the stronger Talon and the points have increased significantly. The comparison to the hunters and Durthu in efficiency seems to go way down. The TLA having same combat efficiencly as the TL still doesn't seem to justify the cost with only a single spell.

So does anyone think it's worth going for one of the warscroll battalions or the lords of the clan core batallion? Even in Oakenbrow 2 TLA's seems a bit much right?

I'm not sure she has 3 casts tbh but could be and still no + to cast right? Not having all spells is odd since she's the goddess herself. It would be even more strange if warsong still has that ability.. so I fear for her too. Do we know a points value already.. because saying if she;'s nerved is not really possible without that.

So would her summon allow her to summon within 6" of herself? Anyway a lot of power in that warscroll... still somewhat squishy for 340 points especially against ranged mortal wounds but the fact she gets LoS and cover save helps against normal ranged damage. In melee the -1 hit ability will help too ofc. Doesn't know all spells and no bonus to cast but 2 casts is nice. Her spell is ofcourse awesome so might even be worth investing in some +x to cast option since 7+ is a nasty near coinflip. The summon ofcourse makes her effectively somewhat cheaper though 10 dryads with no rend often don't really help very much (but this may just be my frustration after a few games in a row against stormcasts with nearly only 2+/3+ saves .) Damage output is slightly lower than 2 models of kurnoth hunters so that covers a part of the points too and ofc has no dropoff in damage output after 5 wounds. Seems like an auto include, I fear Drycha might be nerved to stimulate purchase of this model.

A big unit next to an arch revenant and spending a point for all out attack can do some damage sure... but thing is.. that was already the case and wasn't really good enough and now it's just more expensive.

Lol I've not been playing a lot last months and now you mention it I actually remember all this being changed before that.. but now I started playing again I just looked at the pink entries in the errata and didnt' remember this and my opponents didn't know either apparently. (Not sure if I had an unfair advantage or disadvantage in my last 2 games... I'm leaning toward disadvantage). Changes the math in my post a bit though especially for melee hunters, still not sure I like trading more points for higher toughness ... I want higher damage output/point .

Nevermind. Still don't think the 3+ is worth a point increase for archers though. Piling in 3 doesn't matter anymore on the new warscroll it seems.