wargames101

And once you do spend a little time digging into into the lore, you're not rewarded with some satisfying a-ha, but rather, the feeling that you've invested dozens of hours into reading a crappy retcon hastily written around calculations made around sunk cost mold CapEx. "Oh, so these gold guys basically can't die?" "Yes, but every time they do they lose a bit of their essence." "So they're basically going to turn into Chaos Sigmarines?" "We'll it's been ten years and we haven't seen it happen, but there have been some cryptic allusions to it in the margins of a codex!" "Eh, that's not my faction. These lizard guys look cool, I assume they come from some tropical realm in this fantasy land." "That was true when these models were used in another game, but now they're actually space aliens that just happen to have Mesoamerican styling." "Eh." "Ok, their lore doesn't make sense either, but the Flesh-Eater Courts are so cool, they're basically monstrous vampire beasts who are cursed to believe they're Arthurian Knights." "Oh cool! Ok, I'm into that. So I imagine there are all sorts of ways you can customize the vampires?" "Well no, they haven't actually had a new kit in 15 years or so, but you can kitbash some of the Stormcast bits." Anyway, like I said, I like the game and models, I just wish they'd spend more time crafting better lore for the great models, and investing resources into the great lore they have.

"Overproduction" is just a more charitable way of saying "lack of demand." GW "overproduced" Leviathan, which meant that you could still buy it on the webstore on Tuesday after launching on Saturday and not selling out in 15 minutes. Dominion has been 50% off for nearly *three years.* My guess is that they'll address this lack of popularity in 4.0 by keeping SCE as one of the factions, but reduce the production levels so the boxes shift faster. My wish would be that they stop trying to port the 40K model of having a Marine stand-in in every edition, embrace the strength of their creative team instead, and give more production slots to other armies that may catch on organically with the fandom. I love the AoS models, but the lore has just not caught on after a decade and I think a big part of the reason is that they're trying to shoehorn these bland superheroes into what is fundamentally a fantasy universe. GoT has arguably been the most popular media franchise during AoS's entire run. The fact that they haven't been able to capture any of that zeitgeist is, IMHO, a reflection that they need to think about things differently.

My hope is that Dominion's lack of sell-through led them to reconsider including Stormcast in the 4.0 box. The slower than expected sales were immediately obvious, even if they were still solid in absolute terms, so it is possible even if unlikely. We're coming up on the 10th anniversary of the release of Stormcast and they're obviously not filling the Marine-equivalent role that GW intended for them. So far as I can tell, none of the novels have been breakout hits. I'd be shocked if most GW fans could explain the difference between Hallowed Knights, Celestial Vindicators, Anvils of the Heldenhammer, or Knights Excelsior either aesthetically or lore-wise. I think the models were almost all great designs, but Dominion was a meh-off between redesigns of then five-year-old models and emaciated ork variants entirely new to the setting. That's why you can get the launch box for less than the cost of a Vanguard box six months before the new edition. Fingers crossed that we get better for fourth edition!

There are +-10 more release weekends in 2023, not counting the Knight release next week. There are at least seven major releases promises, the 5 @Nezzhil called out, plus the new HH box set and the start of the new KT season. If they do manage to get LI out, we're up to eight. - 40K Space Marines - Cities of Sigmar - Warcry - Underworlds - Battleforces - Horus Heresy Box Set - KillTeam Maybe WarCry and Underworlds will share a weekend, but I'd expect the other two weeks to be filled with filler – MTO, BL specials, etc. – more so than a big new release for a faction that hasn't been previewed yet.

Anything but Stormcast would be welcome. They've tried polishing that golden ****** for three editions, it's time to cut losses and go another direction. I hope the fact that you can get Dominion boxes for less than the price of a Vanguard box six months before the release of the new edition woke some folks up. Elf vs. Elf would be great. Elf vs. Ork, Human vs. Ghoul, anything but more SCE.

Great post and an important thread. "Pile of Shame" posts pop up with shocking regularity and highlight some uncomfortable truths about the hobby, namely that there is a reasonably large portion of the customer base with a tendency towards hoarding. I don't think this is unique to GW. I've seen a lot of scale modelers have this issue, with widows trying to unload a basement full of unopened boxes. Funko Pop fans are much the same. There's a certain personality type that just loves the idea of amassing huge troves of plastic tchotchkes. For many, this is a manageable compulsion. It's their hobby dollars and while a weird use of funds has no further impact. I get the sense that for many others amassing these collections is a kind of coping mechanism. I've certainly spent time in my FLGS as a form of retail therapy. Much like OP, I've recognized that this kind of behavior is unhealthy and taken steps to limit it. As a community, I think we should discourage hoarding. I don't think folks posting their piles of shame should literally be shamed, but nor should their clout chasing be rewarded. I'd wager that many of these folks are dealing with much bigger issues and using these posts as a form of cope. If nothing else, I'd suggest whenever someone posts their pile, that they be sent this video which does a great job diagnosing the underlying issue and offering some proactive remedies:

I wonder if AoS just gets skipped next summer in favor of The Old World reboot? They first teased W:ToW back in the summer of 2021 and the lore previews have been picking up recently. If AoS 4.0 launches Summer 2024, will W:ToW arrive in Summer 2025? I could see a 40K/Sigmar/30K/W:ToW pattern emerging over time. Or maybe they'll shift 30K or T:ToW to the November release window usually reserved for boxed games? When you add in BB/Necro/WarCry/Underworlds the release calendar gets very full, very quick!

There is also a heavily rumored Guard box set/release wave to be announced next week. It's easy to imagine these being the anchors with some of the blisters, vanguards, and accessories mixed in (with 1-2 potentially having two-week windows.) + Votann + War Cry + Kill Team + StD Launch box + Gnarlwood + Battleforces If the IG box turns out to be real that's basically the road map to EoY in some order. There are only 8 or maybe 9 release weekends left in the year after next week's pre-order.

I wish they'd have a few categories – best centerpiece, best unit, best solo – and then award a best mini of the year based on whichever got the most votes. Size has historically dominated with big models winning 4/5 times, but I think that's because the bigger sculpts tend to be more notable even if they're less impressive in design terms. E.g. IMHO, the Necron psychomancer is a better 32mm sculpt than Belakor is a 120mm sculpt. I think we'd get more varied winners if the smaller models weren't so heavily overshadowed.

What would make sense: + Order: Lumineth + Death: Ossiarch + Chaos: Hedonites + Destruction: Sons of Behemat (Either a Renegade Knight's style double box, or a single Big Gargant with a pair of the Mancrushers. What I think we'll get: + Order: Fireslayers: Basically the one of every unit style similar to the DoK set from last year. + Chaos: Nugle: but mostly daemons with one of the Maggoth lords as the centerpiece, GUO if we're luck a la the Tzeentch box last year. + Death: FEC, lots of rumor engines point this way, why not prime the pump for a new release. + Destruction: Beastclaws – the SC *3

That was my impression as well, but after looking up the dates of announcements they have actually been shockingly consistent, mostly within a four-day window in the middle of November! Looks like we have a month before we know what's coming. 2016 – November 15th 2017 – November 19th 2018 – November 5th (Two were teased on Warcom on Oct 28) 2019 – November 15th 2020 – November 16th And I'd honestly not be shocked if they skipped them this year given how much stuff they seem to have backlogged and the state of the supply chain. Of course, that's what I thought last year in the midst of the early part of the pandemic so who knows

One goofy idea I'd like to see take hold is just painting an army a single color and then hitting it with a wash and some basing to approximate the look and feel of scenes from fantasy shows where they are wargaming using carved wood and stone tokens as pieces. E.g. Game I empathize with people who have neither the time, inclination, or talent to spend hundreds of hours painting an army even to a three-color standard. Truth be told, many bad paint jobs actually take away from the quality of the models. But a simple approach like this would add a simple level of theme. I think it would work well for the Ice and Fire game in particular, but it could be a decent approach for AoS as well.

Beyond the aesthetic and grog-nardy objections to grey plastic, I think unpainted armies actually skirt into the modeling for advantage category. This is especially true when everything has been primed black. It's just harder to pick out the weapon load-outs from a distance, units blend together more, etc. It's not decisive, but it is a disadvantage to your opponent. As people have said, if this is a noob building their first army, it's not an issue. If its an experienced player running a net-deck it's pretty annoying. Like most of the other commenters have noted, there aren't great mechanisms to force people to paint, but soft reinforcement like making it a requirement for tournaments or awarding points for painting progress during leagues provide good incentive. Hopefully, the FLGS offers occasional painting sessions or at least hosts an FB group or Discord to help new painters get their brushes wet. Overall, I'm with the folks who not that as pure games, GW's offerings are mediocre, it's the art that makes them worth the time/money investment. I wouldn't want to play historicals against a WAAC player and 40K/AoS are much closer to historicals than say StarCraft, IMHO.

I'm kind of amazed things have released as smoothly as they have over the past 18 months. There was a brief paint shortage, and I think the longest gap in releases was three weeks near the peak of the first wave? It's pretty extraordinary given that their supply chain is at least partially dependent on China for printed materials. In the main, it is a tremendous validation of their vertical integration strategy. I get frustrated by delays and slower than hoped for roll outs, but it's worth stepping back and marveling at how well they've done!

I'm trying to map out what releases remain through the year's end based on what we know so far. Here's what I can recollect, with some dates being pure speculation.August+ Sisters of Battle finale+ KillTeam starter+ Thousand Sons/GK dual box+ Stormcast/Orruk BattletomesSeptember + Stormcast/Kruleboyz releases+ Ork Codex/Combat Patrol/model wave+ Beast Snagga general releaseOctober + Aeronautica Imerialis: Wrath of Angels/Thunderhawk + Chaos BattletomeNovember + Black Templars releaseDecember+ BattleforcesDid I miss any confirmed products?Summary: The next two months seem absolutely packed. Unless they double up some weeks, it seems likely that the Aug/Sep releases will bleed into October.Beyond the things we know about, there are some logical products we can expect:- Battletome releases/Combat Patrol Equivalents- Codex releases/Combat Patrols - Rumored 30K Starter Box - New Underworlds season- Rumored AoS Dual Box (GSG vs. BoC)- Kill Team: They're presumably going to release the rules, and potentially, other teams.- Necromunda/Bloodbowl/Titanicus/WarCry will all presumably get something.So somewhere between 4-6 open release weeks not accounted for. Any thoughts on what might fill them? Given the large Stormcast/Kruleboyz releases, seems like remaining time will be 40K focused, but perhaps not?

It's so hard to guess – I thought last year's boxes were odd choices for a couple of reasons: + Gloomspite got the first back to back boxes of any non-Stormcast army + The boxes jumped $30-40 with commensurate extra figures Still, I enjoy this speculation, so here goes: High probability - Ossiarch: Have a relatively large range to choose from and could mix and match leaders. Could imagine an infantry swarm, a catapult centerpiece theme, or a mixed force. - Lumineth: Massive range and the original wave is sufficiently old. - Stormcast: GW tends to do battleforce supporting new edition armies. Could wait til next year, but the speed with which they brought out the new starter sets after Dominion's relatively slow launch was surprising - Kruelboyz: See above - Sylvaneth: A reprise of one of the original Battleforces with the new HQ in the mix. Medium Probability - Slaanesh: A mix of the newish mortals and Demons - Soulblight: Feels like a 2022 box. - Fireslayers: Just like the ogor box was a bit of a surprise last year, this could be the "why not?" box. - Sons of Behamet: One big guy and a pair of the mid-sized giants would work price-wise, even if its a bit underwhelming from figure count. My dream would be a "Renegade Knight" style 2:1 discount box. - Idoneth: They've been including centerpieces in more of these boxes, e.g. Skaven/Tzeentch so you could imagine the turtle with a few boxes of eels or something. - Nurgle: Lots of recent, but not too recent plastic. - BCR: Could redo their launch box, 2-3 of the rider kits and a box or two of the cav. Low Probability - Kharadron/Gloomspite/Nighthaunt/Daughters: All had recent boxes and not many new models to freshen up the range. Didn't stop the Kharadron/Gloomspite boxes, but still feel less likely. - Khorne: Sure, maybe.

I agree 100% that they look like they come from different systems, though I'm skeptical the old designs will be changed dramatically, or squatted, because they seem to be doubling down on the big gorilla jaw look with the new BeastSnagga range in 40K. My guess is to the extent that we see new releases for the old orruk clans they'll just be nicer sculpts of this basic look. The Underworlds warbands show how much life is still left in this aesthetic in the hands of a more nuanced sculptor.

Looking through the range, I don't know if a broad-based retirement is particularly likely/worrisome. Here's my take on the older kits in the range: + Liberators: Replaced in all but name. And hammers. The new Vindicator/Vanquisher units will fill the role these guys currently fill, excepting if you want to have hammers instead of blades. + Judicators: Replaced. Arguably the worst models in the range. Uniform pose, stringless bows, tiny dagger for melee. Superseded. I guess they'll have some stats that make them "Heavy Archers" as opposed to mixed arms archers (Vigilors), explosive archers (Castigators), Super Heavy ( Archers (Raptors), or close combat archers (Vanguard). Even this unit has the crossbow build which will stand out aesthetically. + Prosecutors: Safe. Still the only flying option choice, still awesome looking, if fiddly. Same goes with the awesome flying heroes. + Paladins: Safe-ish. Hammer build will fade, but the Protector long blade will likely still fill a niche and look quite at home next to the new Vindicators. + Dracothian Guard: Safe. Dragon mounts still look great. + Vanguard Hunters: Safe-ish I think the crossbow pistols are dumb personally, but the pelts and mixed arms loadout make them a good Space Wolves stand-in for Sigmar. Probably going to be uncomfortably close to the Vigilors rules-wise, but the aesthetics are different enough. + Palladors: Safe Arguably the best looking unit in the range. Spear load out is rad, and they'll look great with the new gryph units. + Sacrosanct Models: All safe. The magic/siege engine motifs seem to be unique to the range absent new additions. So out of the range the Liberators, Judicators, and Paladins might be sent to the back bench, but even so those kits have obvious niches that'll keep them firmly in the range. If the drake or pegasus mount rumors prove to be accurate, it might even create opportunities for new thematic forces!

I think it's a mark of success that "Selling out in 15 minutes" is the baseline upon which GW is being judged here. Taking a month to clear the inventory doesn't strike me as a sign the game is doomed to failure. AOS box sets have generally sold more slowly, Aether War and Shadow & Pain being notable recent examples. The AOS battleforces always hang around longer at Christmas. It's a bit worrying that AoS is coming in behind Marvel Crisis Protocol given the smaller number of SKUs and lower price of the upstart game, but it's hard to argue with the IP.

Yep, I'm predicting it will be a "Rock the new year in with style with part planner extraordinaire (and extra arms) Slaanesh!" theme, with perhaps a Noise marine or or even Fulgrim tease.

That might be the worst sculpted of the faces – the rest capture the intent described here much better, IMHO. That said, I think a blue/purple paint scheme on the faces will go a long way towards crossing the uncanny valley.

@Rodiger I think you're spot-on. "Content Marketing" is a robust discipline that can be delivered in a variety of ways – WarCom has chosen a fairly hidebound, sales-focused approach. It's fine, but as you note, can burn some goodwill. I'd diagnose the key problem is they're not embracing the obsessive nature of many of their fans. They've got a sizeable audience of fans that will go 80-pages deep into a thread discussing some detail on the leaked picture of a sprue. Lore obsessives who can name 943 of the 1,000 Space Marine chapters. Fans who will spend thousands of dollars constructing amazing custom armies. Yet, the modal piece of content is the digital equivalent of the spiel a store manager might give a curious 10-year-old. A few thoughts on how the site could be improved: + Create more value than you capture. I don't think anyone begrudges GW making a sales pitch, but it would be nice if they didn't feel the need to capture every penny of profit in their ecosystem. E.g. It seems like GW forced Darren Latham to shut down his YouTube channel which got to 40,000+ subscribers in record time. This is a huge loss! Maybe he was losing focus at work, but assuming he wasn't, let the man moonlight and earn a few bucks on the side. Or point people to Richard Gray's Patreon as the next step after 'Eavy Metal. Other game co's have figured out how to harness their creative customer base, but GW has kept theirs largely at arm's length. + More series in the mode of "Mind of Mengel." There are many brilliant hobbyists in the community who would be keen to get the exposure that WarCom provides. Give them a platform! + Create a "print" version of the "Hobby Roundup" stream. It's the best part of their Twitch offering IMHO and an act of true "service journalism" in that it rounds up the best painting projects shared across social media in a given week. I always come away with 1-2 new people to follow on Instagram as well. These are obviously focused on my interests in the hobby side of the game. And I might be biased in that I get no value from the various comic strips they produce, nor the new meta features they're doing. That said, I agree with OP more in sorrow than anger – WarCom is good, but frustrating because it could be GREAT.

Anyone want to speculate about this year's Battleforces? Ossiarch Bonereapers - Seems like a lock, similar to the Gloomspite release last year + Mortek Crawler + Mortek Guard + Gothizzar Harvester (Could also see Kavalos Deathriders) + Arch- Kavalos Zandtos Lumineth - Might be too hot on the heels of the poorly selling LE box +Avalenor, the Stoneheart King + Alarith Stoneguard X2 + Alarith Stonemage Other potential candidates + Beastclaw (Good sons of Behemat allies) + Ogors (Ditto) + Daughters of Khaine (In support of the new campaign) + Daemons of __________ (Any of the factions could work, Nurgle or Slaanesh seem most viable model-wise)

For sure, at some point it comes down to "de gustibus non est disputandum." My central issue is that at a certain point it would be cool to have a couple alt builds that introduce some variety, if desired. It's increasingly common among the Primaris line where similarly well-disciplined troops are modeled to display reloading, and it's not hard to imagine it in the LRL. E.g. One of the archers could have a loosed arrow still crossing the box, while another is being grabbed with Legolas-esqe speed.

I'd also point to the Putrid Blightkings as an exemplar. It's pretty easy to build a block of 20 PBKs in such a way that it's difficult to tell that they're based on five basic body types. The Idoneth warrior sets have two strong builds each so that you can field 20 unique models, minimally. The poses are also wonderfully dynamic. I think part of the reason the LRL line has felt underwhelming is that many of the models feel like copy/past jobs. Aside from the heads of the LRL archers, it's hard to see what's unique? They still look great, but definitely feel more like a throwback to mid-90s pewter design constraints than the modern plastics.