Luke1705

If it's 80 I would fill it with shackles in a second. That spell is great

Tzeentch (specifically with Archaon), knights of the empty throne, seraphon and daughters will all be pretty great IMO

There are definitely some banner shenanigans in there, and using that in conjunction with other endless spells is definitely my favorite way to guarantee a good use of a 1 on a destiny dice. The lifeswarm spell is the "if I had just a few more points I would totally include it in my list" spell right now. I just can't quite seem to fit it without sacrificing a touch more than I'd like to in other areas. But it's very good.

Nagash is going to make you have a very bad time casting. Your re-rolls will help somewhat, but his flat bonus is just so good. So you have to somehow try to kill him (very difficult if the opponent is good) or avoid his deny range (also difficult if the opponent is good). I think you have to use your mobility to the maximum and do your best to focus down and kill whichever unit you can target from outside of Nagash's deny range, if any.

I don't see a world where the tzeentch endless spells pull their weight over a darkfire daemonrift, and I mean the gaunt summoner is so auto include. Also I struggle to see as much value in battalions (even changehost) at 1500 because you lose more supporting elements. Like I mean that's like 350 points in not models. For a 1500 point list, that's a lot of board presence sacrificed. With a little tweaking, he could toss in 20 more horrors and that's literally 100 wounds.

So one thing I was thinking about and wanted to make sure I was playing correctly - you can only get horrors back from the pink banner while the banner is alive, and you need to kill pinks first (except in battleshock) so if they do 10 wounds to the squad that you fail to save/pass FNP for, you cannot auto pass battleshock with a destiny dice of 1 and you cannot return any horrors to the squad any more (barring lifeswarm shenanigans). Is that correct? I'm thinking about using a lifeswarm to try and bring the command models back and get some mid game shenanigans, or debating if I just want to use endless spells to run over a handful of guys and guarantee that I'm going to be able to use that 1 to increase the squad size.

Yeah the only list it lost to was petrifex nagash. Turns out if you struggle to cast any spells, this list is in trouble 😅 You don’t really need double pile in in this list because they can’t fall back. So you’ll get to swing on their turn even if they really don’t want you to lol, which is functionally similar to a double pile in. Fyreslayers are actually a pretty good matchup. Archaon eats polexe zerkers for breakfast, they have no magic defense and you can kill their heroes rather easily with your magic. Non-nagash OBR doesn’t really concern me with this list. They can pump out tons of damage yes but they are slow and will never kill archaon while he can whistle them down. Also the daemonrift does absurd amounts of mortal wounds and that is the weakness of OBR (not to mention the other spells that do mortal wounds) Other tzeentch could certainly be a problem. I don’t even want to think about playing a mirror match or against eternal conflagration changehost. Pink horrors vs each other just sounds like a logistical nightmare. That being said, all the respect in the world to this guy for pioneering the list but I’m not sure how well it deals with slaanesh (although I think in between spells and unkillable archaon it does the trick)

Re-rolls are from the warscroll spell on the sorcerer lord. Enemy re-rolling sixes to hit (only against archaon) is his new eye of sheeran ability. The -1 to hit is from the locus of tzeentch since archaon is a tzeentch daemon hero and he is within range of himself

So I haven't played the list, but as I understand it, it is something like what you said. The daemonrift is a HUGE source of mortal output and the curseling's AOE spell re-rolls are an enormous force multiplier. Archaon can get the 2+ armor as soon as he spots the right enemy. One of the horror units becomes twice as hard to take an objective from (so just about literally impossible). I have not seen any streams, but I would love to if someone knows of any. The difficulty in playing the list is maintaining it -1 to hit buff aura (archaon helps with this a lot lol), making sure that your endless spells don't get turned against you (except when you want to create more horrors). The only thing I keep wanting to try to fit into this list is the lifeswarm to heal horrors after damaging them on the first turn. Archaon is both a hammer and an anvil in this list (and an excellent one of both). He's going to hit on a 1+ re-rolling all (not just failed, thank you Mr. Space Marine Chapter Master), wound on a 2+ re-rolling all (not just failed, so you can fish for slayer of kings if you want to) and he's got a 3+ (then a 2+ save once the agenda is completed) re-rolling all (not just failed, so rend is less detrimental to him). He's -1 to hit and they have to re-roll their sixes....it's just a nightmare to even think about trying to kill him. My friend plays LOTL Hearthguard Berserkers and Archaon *wants* to run into the poleaxe guys while he murders them. The broadaxe ones are a little more annoying but it's still not the end of the world (and wow purple sun does so much work against HGB but that's neither here nor there). As long as you can keep your support heroes alive (gaunt until he poops out horrors and ideally the curseling and the sorcerer lord for the entire game) you are in a *really* good spot. I honestly think this is one of, if not the, most competitive ways to play tzeentch right now. Of course, this is all theorycraft at this point from me until it actually hits the table, but that will be soon enough

Sometimes, at 6 in the morning, I forget what subfactions are whoops

The list I scratch built was: Archaon sorc lord regular lord (or second sorc lord) 6 varanguard 40 marauders Iron golems or cogs

I was comparing it to the old plaguetouched, which I liked quite a bit. 1 drop is assuredly very strong and really you’re only paying 130 since you get the extra command point. Without the warband, you get 20 more marauders, which is probably not worth it alone. But if my math is right you could drop the warband, warshrine, and a sorc lord for 60 marauders or 20 more marauders and 3 more varanguard. At that point, of course, you’re probably going host of the everchosen and you have an inherently different list

It definitely has a great deal of flexibility as far as which units you want to pick. I’m just not sure the effect, low drop count and extra relic are worth 180 points

Interesting that you still prefer the plague touched. I’m not convinced it’s worthwhile still. I’d probably also drop the warshrine in favor of more bodies since the sorc lord can buff archaon anyhow and I’ve never passed a 6+ FNP a day in my life 😂

Yes. A hero is still a unit