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238 Celestant-Prime

About mmimzie

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    Lord Castellant
  1. Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

    I think one could run with out the asepct of the sea. I've been considering similar. The only problem is that it help you in a few key areas. For one, that bravery buff is pretty good, and as such you'd want to take a generic general with the bravery command trait to make up for it. Also the bravery buff helps against stuff like mindrazor or death anti bravery mechanic. The aspect of the sea is our army wide best bet at anti mortal wound protection. For one he can unbind twice which is quite pleasant. More importantly though he gives -1 to hit, which most sources out side of spells rely on to do mortal wounds. We do have several other -1 to hit mechanics that we can access, some of which with longer range, and a tide caster on a bale wind could get you there for less than half the price, but also ahve the unbinds. All the said the thing is a sizable chunk of your army quite quickly taken up.
  2. Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

    And your totally right, but that's the match up. That's what the daughter of khaine player has to lay into. That's the but they have to sit there and crack that nut. Your locked in behind a wall of side ways cab bases, and if you really want to protect said wall you can put ypur morrsarr guard right behind them and let them poke over with 2" range, and potentially protect with thier mortal wound discharge. With anti flying ritual that can't be denied your sort pf stuck with dealing with that particular issue out side of potentially any heartrenders one my try to drop in behind, which may or may not get to attack something else. Then from there <. < after the fact after the clash. You still have your -1 to hit skills availbe to gang what ever concerns you. Edit: your ability to get around get further bottle necked when you have two 12" boats walking off the table, and your army can't fly threw it.
  3. Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

    2 of my 4 test games were against daughters. The martyr's hurt abit <.< but the 9 man ishlaen guard unit kills that 30 man witch squad if they have martyr's on or not, and lives with like 5+ ishlaen guard. When we tested we re did key combats like that in the middle of the game. So like we had him roll his attacks 3 or 4 times to see how many ishlaen guard he kills and the opposite with my ishlaen guard fighitngg into his witches, and rolling the mortal wounds extra really doesn't kill enough stuff. While the ishlaen guard lay into the witch elves. sooo <.<.... Morathi is a problem, but it's more a problem to be ignored i felt?? and having won both of the games on points pretty confidently. It felt quite good about that match up. At -1 and -2 to hit the Daughters really lack teeth. Then i had my buddy use my change host list, and we did some games. was definitly rough, but change host isn't about killing its about objective grabbing. And as such it's very mission specific how the match up goes. He's not as good with my list as i am, but i was giving him pointers etc of what would be terrible for me. keeping the morrsar guard out of combat, but also some where where they could strike hard was tough. So we scrubbed the game, and i just shoved the morrsar down his throat killing brims and blues as best i could. i lost by 2 pts or so. Really change host isn't a murder face list. It's most killing turn 1 or two with some mortal wound spell design to pick out key units, but if you take out the pinks and LoC you quickly find that change host is out of killy gas... and then realize that doesn't matter because the whole point of change host is that they are objectives all game, and you literally can't get them off. The most effective thing was vorpal maelstorm It's almost designed to mess up the splitting. Hard to get it off in that match up, so i guess i'm realizing now i should give that to the AoSea instead of cover. that way i can reroll that maelstrom, and then cast arcane coarsion from long distances to try to get around unbinding. Reguardless we all know change host needs a nerf <.< and besides just obliterating the whole armie off the table, your not gonna stop them from scoring objectives every game. The last game was a boring victory against my death army that my buddy barrowed for that game. he was most experience with it. It's basicly what i wrote up in the list summary to the letter. You jsut turtle and stay even. Then kill stuff, and win by a few point. The thrall tarpit as i had said could be pretty good, but then you have to compare how it does against vulkites and death. You can't realistic buff all your thralls in a way that really keeps them alive and your healing is only as much as you bring soul renders??? I think i woundn't go bromdar, i'd go morphan for more healing and bring more soul renders. Even rolling min rolls the soul renders each only have to heal twice to be completely cost effective over just buying more thralls. Charge your thralls in early and don't evenb go for fighting just tie up the enemy in weird combats they struggle to pile into effectively. Don't think this works well against KO though, you might just get smashed by the shooting storm, and not have enough surface area to punish them.
  4. Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

    Against what feels like common sense. It's actualy worth while to bring the fast eels into combat via the soul scryer. As the Eels can reroll thier charge distance, making that 6" charge more reliable than thier namarti brothers. Only thing to worry about here is your ishlaen guard will be with out buffs and thus will only be +4 ignoring rend on turn 2. Anywho for those interested this is my list after some play testing with thralls and proxy eels: Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin - Enclave: Dhom-Hain Leaders Akhelian King (240) - General - Command Trait : Unstoppable Fury - Artefact : Potion of Hateful Frenzy Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Sea (440) - Lore of the Deeps : Abyssal Darkness Isharann Tidecaster (100) - Lore of the Deeps : Arcane Corrasion Isharann Tidecaster (100) - Lore of the Deeps : Steed of Tides Units 9 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (420) 3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140) 9 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (480) 5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80) - Allies 2 boats Total: 2000 / 2000 Realized 1 how cool khinerai heart renders are. Also realized i needed a butt protection ishlaen guard unit <.< becuase of heart renders. As realized i really like the chance of getting reroll to cast first turn on my edolan so the extra tide caster exist for that reason. Basicly, i go for the tide of steeds to get the edolan up close and have the edolan cast abyssal darkness (rerolling) and Tsunami of terror (rerolling) Then have the tide caster with arcane corrasion cast mystic shield. If tide of steeds fails, then instead i have the edolan cast mystic shield, and instead have the tide caster drop a long range arcane corrasion. THen the 9 man ishlaen guard units go in front of and behind the eidolon with the king and morrsarr coming up to hang out beside the eidolan. The tide cast then make for objectives. I really like tide of steeds. It lets you turn your heros into objective grabbers for clear objectives. Really nice late game. Morrsar and the king on high tide bring some serious pain. Kind of wish i could bring 12, but it feels like that would get unweidly x.x. Only thing in the list i'm not sure about is enclave. Dhom-Hain lets me ditch the king and keep my rerolls. Where as Fuethan makes the ishlaen guard alittle more threatening when they get charged due to mount reroll 1's to wound. I guess where i'm at with it now i prefer Dhom-Hain because i really appreciate that turn 3 power stroke.
  5. Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

    You can pick spells on the dumbest as you are alliegenve dumbest. I think I'd take vorpal maelstrom or something on the tidevaster you your list has alittle more bite to it. Your only real bike is big standard morrsarr, Thralls, and a tree lord none of which get buffs. It's not the end of the word. Instead those tool have to be used carefully. Is maybe drop the ishlaen to 6 and numb the morrsarr to 9. The morrsarr can chill put behind ypur dyrads and ishlaen for turn one and strike out turn to yo reliever punch. I wouldn't reverse the tides as you don't have any units who'd take good advantage of the turn 2 high tide.
  6. Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

    On the discussion of which enclave to take I'd say if you wanna do really heavy allies or wizard ionrach is the way to go. Thrall armies wanna go morphan. Eel armies: either fuethan for reroll 1s to wound for your mounts As likely you'll have a king to provide buffs. Or Nautilar to allow ishlaen guard to accept charges and get a buff over what the king provides. Plus the protective barrier spell is a devent spell on either an avatar or morrsarr guard. Or dhom-hain so you can charge away from the kings bubble on turn 3 and still keep the reroll 1s.
  7. Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

    So the reason I day you need all 30 into attack range is because if your only getting 15 than you take the attack characteristic on thier sheet and you cut it in half. I think it is as you say you do need to bring the h3aling to make them really shine. As woth out the healing they are lack luster. Let's say we ally in witch elves. A block of 30 with buckles and compare them to our thralls. The witch aelves get 90 attacks and in the same area thralls get in 15 attacks witches get all 30. So in that comparison the witches are questionably more durable, and do more damage to almost all targets out side of maybe something with a 2+ save rerollable. So maybe with the fish man bringing them back to life they become a bit stronger even more so in namarti cote and with arcane shield support. However this is them not being so much a get and more of a bladed anvil. Which makes the battalion seem the way to go if your gin a bring the namarti.
  8. Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

    Having played more games no2 I don't honestly see the thrall argument of them being more comoetive. The main argument is that the morsar guard chwrge and then die to a counter attack.... ad if thrall don't do the same... but worse brcause they die alot faster than the eels and are more vulnerable to morale if not inspired. Meaning you can only really support 1 big unit of thralls. Then having played with thrm. It's about as it seems if you really need to kill 1 target unit at the very most you'll get maybe 15 thrall in to attack. Meaning if your paying for 30, your only getting half the damage you paid for. The morrsarr on the other hand can get 11 of thier models in, and the other 2 have 2" range attacks on 2 out of 3 of thier profiles meaning you won't miss out on a single morrsarr attack. Which also mean if you are angling for that turn 3 than the morsar can get buffed more effectiently as your putting thst buff into more pts worth of attacks. Just look at the match up... because for some reason we've only ever looked at the match ups for morrsarr. How do thrall deal with witch aelves when the aelves are more durable woth a 4+/5+ and the whole unit can get all 90 of thier attacks in to your 45.
  9. Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

    I feel like it's too the worsing seems specific enough?? It seems to me to be any combination of 2 half or whole boats??? I was also right there saying as much with you. You can definitly get alot of -1 to hit out there but that doesn't mean anything if you can't kill stuff and being behind 500pts just doesn't seem like you'll have enough left in the tank to deal with the enemies 2k pts of objective grabbing. After playing some proxy games I'm more than ever of the opinion that we live and die on our turn 3. We should try to stay as close to even as we can on turn 1 and 2. Then go ham off turn 3. Our units are to frail & lack focus (thralls) or too limited in there windows of attack (morrsar) to sit there duking it out all game. They want to give it there all all at once.
  10. Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

    Hmmm i'm being sold abit here on that double AoSea <.< hmmm.... but your execution. See i'd do like Turn 1: E1- Steed of Tide, Mystic shield E2: Cover aura (2 turns), -1 to hit/bravery to D6 Then from there the cover spell can replaced with cloying sea mist for turn 2, and Steed for arcane missle. For more -1 to hit i'd bring maybe a tidecaller?? +X utility long range spell for turn 1 like arcane corrasion. Which could be cast from your line on turn 1, and then turn 2 provide the additional -1 to hit spell. However, her spell also does damage, and has a longer range. More over though with two edolans you'll likely want to have someo ne to cast rituals which the Tidecaller can do. Plus the tide caster is gonna be doing nothing but advancing all game, and whe nit comes to being mortal wound sniped she is pretty good due to ignoring the first wound that comes her way each turn. Also with iconrach or whatever that +1 cast/unbind rerolling will go along way against change host. Keeping the mortal wounds down abit. Similarly, the -1/-2 to hit will also tamper down our mortal wound weakness. We'd still struggle abit against change host due to the quag mire of melee, but with flying models it's possible we can start making osme in roads. Edit: also if you really want to double down on the possibility or doing some mortal wound damage. A king with bioshock shell might not be a bad addition in this sort of force.
  11. Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

    I was saying it was my original comment to replace the khinari with the morsaar. I definitly agree your opponent won't let you charge what you want turn one. However, it's part of the Idoneth unmathable math, right??? Your opponet is palying around your tides, your forgotten nightmare, and your turn 1/2 charge potential. it's part of that -1 to hit to multiple target units, and maybe some -2> Bucklers and marty's sacrfice is nice but you ahve to go first, you have to get your prayer off, The buckler witch unit has to wrap itself around your whole army to be the only charge option availible. Is it gonna win the game on turn one and crush your opponents soul so they have no more option to play the game, and you can declare victory on the spot?? No It's just another thing in the recipe book toward winning the game.
  12. Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

    guess??? alittle measurement. So his skill is 24" away, and your models can be 12" away from the scryer. Then you have to be more than 9" from the enemy models. So saying you drop your unit 9" away from the enemy units +12 the scryer can be away thats a good 21" away from the enemy unit. He isn't that abandoned. That and depending on where the objectives are or if they are hero specific objectives, i'd try to get him to work on that issue. He is also a the best ritual caster right??? So you might also want to get him in a spot to where he can be the one to cast the ritual next turn to buff your edolans.
  13. Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

    Yeah i've changed my planned list up abit after a tiny play test and some spirited conversations. They are kind of a bomb unit. Think we'll see some sort of turn 1 charge shinnagens out of every ID list.
  14. Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

    Maaybe??? but i mean the reason this line started is the 2 units of khinari vs the eels in your list. In 1 turn the eels will do more damage on thier charge than khinari would do over like 3 or 4 turns x.x. The Eels can be used to sit on an objective if you need them to, and they'll hold onto that 3 turns worth of damage you would have gotten from the khinari and deliever that any turn you wish wish. In fact if they chill on an objective till turn 3, and then charge out, even if they get counter charged they'll atleast get to fight twice. So comparing them to khinari they either do more damage out the gate right away (Since you have a scryer already in your list to get them in there turn 1) or can be banked for thier greater turn 3 effect. Or more realisticly if i got theb ottom of turn 2, i'd probaly charge them in then, and that way if i get double or not for the 3 round they can fight first. Reguardless 3 charging in with your thralls. your opponent is gonna have thier hands full. And you know what if your opponent sink damage into your more durable eel unit than you can thank them for sparing more of your thralls.
  15. Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

    I guess??? But the aspect of the sea can't kill a hag queen even with out those buffs... melee combat he's about the same as transformed morathi. How good he is... hmmm I don't know?? Morathi is good because you can't kill that model with out lots of effort. So the thing I guess to consider is transformed morathi worth it she wasn't a wizard and didn't stop damage at 3 and had a reroll 1s to wound aura??