Grot lists

[The Traitor]

So, as some of you might know, I'm starting a Grot army and, even though I've got everything pretty much sorted out, I'm still quite new to AoS and I'm doubtful between this two 2000 points lists:

LIST 1

Destruction allegiance: rampaging destroyers

Great Moonclan 80
Grot Warboss on Giant Cave Squig 80
- Battle Brew
Grot Shaman 80
- Collar of Domination
3x20 Moonclan Grots 120
- 3 nets
- Slittas and shields
5 Squig Hoppers 80
3x2 Grot Fanatics 60

Skarsnik 100
General
Mangler Squigs 240
Colossal Squig 300
2x Spear Chukka 120
2x Rock Lobber 100
2x1 Grot Fanatics 30

 

LIST 2

Destruction allegiance: rampaging destroyers

Great Moonclan 80
Grot Warboss on Giant Cave Squig 80
- Battle Brew
Grot Shaman 80
- Collar of Domination
3x20 Moonclan Grots 120
- 3 nets
- Slittas and shields
5 Squig Hoppers 80
3x2 Grot Fanatics 60

Mangler Squigs 240
Colossal Squig 300
- General: ravager
Grot Shaman (gitmob) 80
2x Spear Chukka 120
2x Rock Lobber 100
2x1 Grot Fanatics 30

 

So, as you can see, they're pretty similar, but they also have their differences. First, the general changes, in List 1 the leader is Skarsnik using his awesome command trait, while in List 2 it is the Colossal Squig with the also good Ravager trait, bringing more durability, punch and mobility to the general (and an awesome conversion opportunity of making a Grot Warboss mounted on him) and another rampaging destroyers aura, but it also may draw more attention to a model which is already a usual target.

Also in the second list, thanks to the removal of Skarsnik, I can add a Gitmob Shaman to buff the war machines (+1 wound and -1 rend to a Spear Chukka could be pretty brutal)... While I loose the ability to deal mortal wounds when retreating (I've already lost the command trait due to the colossal squig being the general) and some damage potential I think that having a second caster with such a good spell for my artillery might compensate, specially when taking into account that I've reached my 4 artillery cap.

What do you think? Do you see this as a playable list? As said before, I'm still new to AoS, and so I'm open to any other ideas regarding the army... How do you guys usually play Moonclan? I'm interested on every comment regarding them, so don't doubt to share your thoughts!

 

[Furious]

Before this begins, something worth noting is that the Great Moonclan has been FAQ'd as unusable in official Matched Play due to the fact that "Night Goblins" no longer exist.

As well, on a similar note, if you have the Gitmob Shaman to cast Sneaky Stabbin' on your artillery, you unfortunately cannot do that - the artillery itself doesn't have the Gitmob keyword, only the crew does. Tricky indeed.

That aside, it looks like you don't have enough infantry. I think at least one of your units should be 40 strong. Personally I'd drop one of the rock lobbers to make that happen.

[The Traitor]

Damn you're right... But if it can no longer be used, why did GW release points for it on the GHB??? 

You're also right about the gitmob shaman, so he will get out of the list because I don't need to buff grot crew...

So, with the new 160 points that I get from dropping the moonclan and the shaman I could fit 20 more goblins in List 2 and another fanatic, while in List 1 I would drop the moonclan shaman too (if prefer to have 2 rock lobbers for the extra rock chance) and would do the same. 

However now I'm going to have to sculpt 80 goblins... I'll try not to shoot myself. 

Thanks for the advice!

[Nogle]

All moonclan grot lists need skarsinik

[The Traitor]

2 hours ago, Nogle said:

All moonclan grot lists need skarsinik

Well, he's good alright, but I don't see him as a MANDATORY choice...

So, this is the list that I think I'm going to make:

DA FUNKY MUSHROOMS 

Destruction allegiance: rampaging destroyers

Grot Warboss on Giant Cave Squig 80

- Battle Brew

Skarsnik 100

- General

Grot Shaman 80

3x20 Moonclan Grots 120
- 3 nets
- Slittas and shields

10 Squig Hoppers 160

3x2 Grot Fanatics 60

2x1 Grot Fanatics 30

Mangler Squigs 240

Colossal Squig 300

2x Spear Chukka 120

2x Rock Lobber 100

 

So, I know that at the end there are just 60 goblins, but I don't like too much playing horde armies and wanted to use more the crazy side of the grots, rather than their numbers.

So, the list will have three cores: first the central blob of the army which will be Skarsnik with the three grot units and the shaman, with a unit of two fanatics in each grot unit. They will basically walk through the table taking objectives and killing other infantry units.

The second core is composed by the artillery, which will be at the backfield shooting important targets, they should scrap some wounds through the game, though their average damage output isn't that impressive.

The third and the killiest part will be the squigs (boss, hoppers, colossal and mangler), which deal a lot of damage and can be pretty fast with good rolls, so they'll pretty much run around the board killing things. 

What do you think, do you believe that I'm crippling too much the list by playing the grits in minimums? I will probably start with this and just add more models later to be able to try out other things.
 

[Furious]

I think this isn't too crippled, no. You've got a specific strategy that you'll need to follow, which is playing defence for your things (artillery, manglers) that will have to be a forceful offence (manglers go down real quick). So use the Fanatics for that instead of the offence. As well, Moonclan Shamans are really cheap and have among the best spells in the game, consider making room for two - it would be invaluable, I think (for a Mystic Shield bot and a Curse of the Bad Moon bomber). Either way, this army looks like it will do a few things quickly: put out a lot of damage, and die.

I play heavy artiller (Legion of Azgorh). One thing I can do absolutely nothing about is Stormcasts zapping in 3" away from my machines and hammering them to bits with Starsoul maces. That's just one army, so just a word of caution when fighting against a Hammerstrike force. 

Also, I'm confused by your numbers beside the fanatics. How many are you bringing?

[The Traitor]

18 minutes ago, Furious said:

I think this isn't too crippled, no. You've got a specific strategy that you'll need to follow, which is playing defence for your things (artillery, manglers) that will have to be a forceful offence (manglers go down real quick). So use the Fanatics for that instead of the offence. As well, Moonclan Shamans are really cheap and have among the best spells in the game, consider making room for two - it would be invaluable, I think (for a Mystic Shield bot and a Curse of the Bad Moon bomber). Either way, this army looks like it will do a few things quickly: put out a lot of damage, and die.

I play heavy artiller (Legion of Azgorh). One thing I can do absolutely nothing about is Stormcasts zapping in 3" away from my machines and hammering them to bits with Starsoul maces. That's just one army, so just a word of caution when fighting against a Hammerstrike force. 

Also, I'm confused by your numbers beside the fanatics. How many are you bringing?

Thanks for the reply! I usually prefer to put out a lot of damage and run away, but I guess that dying is more the Moonclan style . I see that shamans are pretty good, will probably also try a list with two and only 5 hoppers. 

I actually can do something against Hammerstrike armies, put all my army in one place and bubble wrap it with grots, sixty of them should be enough to do half a circle around them if I put the army on a side. The best part is that not even the grots will die, as the stormcasts will be countercharged by my fanatics, so sure, the fanatics will most probably die, but I'll have disrupted his whole tactic and all of my heavy hitters will still be alive to counter strike...

And yes, I see that the number of fanatics can be a bit confusing, sorry for that. I plan on bringing three units of two (one in each unit of grots) and two units of one (both in the Squig hoppers unit). 

[Furious]

Of course, I didn't consider that Fanatics are the perfect counter to Hammerstrike. Good, ****** those guys.

[Sadysaneto]

i used to advocate for skarsnik.

 

I still think that no battleshock is pretty crazy for moonclan.

 

but thing is,  double damage on 6+ , BellowingTyrant and battle brew, are way more brutal than attacking twice, imo

[Sadysaneto]

4 hours ago, The Traitor said:

 

And yes, I see that the number of fanatics can be a bit confusing, sorry for that. I plan on bringing three units of two (one in each unit of grots) and two units of one (both in the Squig hoppers unit). 

You can only hide fanatics on grots units, dont you?

[The Traitor]

3 hours ago, Sadysaneto said:

i used to advocate for skarsnik.

 

I still think that no battleshock is pretty crazy for moonclan.

 

but thing is,  double damage on 6+ , BellowingTyrant and battle brew, are way more brutal than attacking twice, imo

I haven't made the math, but I'm pretty sure that a grot unit attacking twice does more damage than using battle brew and bellowing tyrant on a measly grot warboss... And skarsnik also hits pretty well by himself and make nearby moonclan units deal 1d3 mortal wounds on a 4+ when retreating... So while I agree that that combo can be pretty potent, I think that moonclan doesn't benefit too much from it.

1 hour ago, Sadysaneto said:

You can only hide fanatics on grots units, dont you?

In moonclan grot units with at least five models to be precise. Fortunatelly squig hoppers have both the moonclan and grot keyword, that's the reason I'm taking them . 

[Sadysaneto]

The thing is that you dont attack twice immediately. You attack once, the oppnent attack, then you can attack again. So you risk losing a lot of firepower on the trade. With warboss and 40 grots you be dealong double damage on 4+, on up to 30 attacks. At once. 

After some games, i just find it better. But its just me, ofc.

 

 

[Sadysaneto]

About hoppers and fanatic i see your point, but idk... still not sure it works like that.

[Solaris]

8 hours ago, Sadysaneto said:

About hoppers and fanatic i see your point, but idk... still not sure it works like that.

It should, the words are upper case and bolded on the Fanatic warscroll, which means that they refer to keywords.

[The Traitor]

12 hours ago, Sadysaneto said:

The thing is that you dont attack twice immediately. You attack once, the oppnent attack, then you can attack again. So you risk losing a lot of firepower on the trade. With warboss and 40 grots you be dealong double damage on 4+, on up to 30 attacks. At once. 

After some games, i just find it better. But its just me, ofc.

 

 

I don't see how this can work. Both Bellowing Tyrant and the making double damage on 6+ are command traits, so you can only choose one... additionally battle brew would just affect the Warboss, not the unit. Am I missing something?

12 hours ago, Sadysaneto said:

About hoppers and fanatic i see your point, but idk... still not sure it works like that.

See the answer bellow, it was my fault for not formatting it correctly!

4 hours ago, Solaris said:

It should, the words are upper case and bolded on the Fanatic warscroll, which means that they refer to keywords.

Yes, just this!

[Solaris]

2 hours ago, The Traitor said:

I don't see how this can work. Both Bellowing Tyrant and the making double damage on 6+ are command traits, so you can only choose one... additionally battle brew would just affect the Warboss, not the unit. Am I missing something?

The double damage is a Command Ability, no? So it's an ability you get from having a Grot Warboss as your general, whereas Bellowing Tyrant is an ability you get on top of that. You're entirely correct on the Battle Brew though, the unit does not benefit from that, so no 4+ unless I'm missing something. If you were using Gitmob Grots, then sure you can get enough to hit bonuses, but they cannot benefit from the Command Ability to begin with.

[The Traitor]

4 minutes ago, Solaris said:

The double damage is a Command Ability, no? So it's an ability you get from having a Grot Warboss as your general, whereas Bellowing Tyrant is an ability you get on top of that. You're entirely correct on the Battle Brew though, the unit does not benefit from that, so no 4+ unless I'm missing something. If you were using Gitmob Grots, then sure you can get enough to hit bonuses, but they cannot benefit from the Command Ability to begin with.

Just discovered that you can have command abilities on top of command traits... As said before, I'm still pretty new to AoS...

[Furious]

I'd also like to point out that the vanilla Warboss' command ability on a mangler squig is freaking bananas. Say goodbye to just about any unit.

[Sadysaneto]

You get double damage on 4+, becausenyou get +2 modifiers.

So any 4+ wound will be 6+ and deal double damage.

Battlebrew just makes the warboss nastier.

Bellowing was my mistake. It does help to connect attacks, but not on doubling damage.

 

[The Traitor]

6 hours ago, Furious said:

I'd also like to point out that the vanilla Warboss' command ability on a mangler squig is freaking bananas. Say goodbye to just about any unit.

Actually Skarsnik ability would make him even nastier if well timed, even though it wastes de battleshock part.

11 minutes ago, Sadysaneto said:

You get double damage on 4+, becausenyou get +2 modifiers.

So any 4+ wound will be 6+ and deal double damage.

Battlebrew just makes the warboss nastier.

Bellowing was my mistake. It does help to connect attacks, but not on doubling damage.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot backstab... That IS nasty! Well, best loadout for grot warboss is the model that used to be Skarsnik, so I can try both with a single model and see who I like best, they both seem to have their pros and cons. 

[Sadysaneto]

20 minutes ago, The Traitor said:

Actually Skarsnik ability would make him even nastier if well timed, even though it wastes de battleshock part.

Oh yeah, I forgot backstab... That IS nasty! Well, best loadout for grot warboss is the model that used to be Skarsnik, so I can try both with a single model and see who I like best, they both seem to have their pros and cons. 

Like i said, if skarsnik granted two attacks immediataly, i wouldnt even bother with warboss.

But grost tend to drop like flies and once it starts it goes downhill fast.

This is where, imo, warboss gets the edge. It can deal more dmg upfront.

It may be my mtg mind on playing goblins deck, tho. I really see them as glass cannons.

Well, i love em anyway.

[Solaris]

Oh yeah, the ability triggers on wound rolls! My bad, I thought it triggered on hit rolls for some reason.