Lets Chat: Flesh Eater Courts

[MrCharisma]

Just now, The Nameless One said:

Hey @MrCharisma!

I’m taking a very similar list to a two dayer this weekend:

AGK on Terror

Varghulf

Necromancer

3 x 10 Ghouls

Terror

2 Zombie Dragons

Royal Menagerie.

 

It’s going to be fun!

Let me know how you perform. I'm tossing up what combo of Zombie Dragon / Terrorgheist I make up.

What's the benefit in the Necromancer? I was looking at taking one but I'm not sure how much it adds. Would love to hear your thoughts

[Grimnaud]

4 hours ago, The Nameless One said:

Hey @MrCharisma!

I’m taking a very similar list to a two dayer this weekend:

AGK on Terror

Varghulf

Necromancer

3 x 10 Ghouls

Terror

2 Zombie Dragons

Royal Menagerie.

 

It’s going to be fun!

Best of luck to you! But be aware that a Menagerie list is surprisingly fragile. Know that Death army that placed waaaaaaaaaay down at the bottom at B&G? That was my Menagerie list. Did slightly better at the previous tournament I brough a very similar Menagerie list to, but the core of the army is still very swingy and surprisingly easy to kill.

[nuttyknatty]

I agree with the assessment that’s it’s fragile. Which does feel surprising with four big monsters!

When I’ve used them in the past (and I had the Cloak of Mists and Shadows) I’d tend to rush everything forward - which then died quickly.

 

So, I’m planning to send stuff piece meal. The two Zombie Dragons first, then the two Terrorgheists. Ghouls, Necromancer and Varghulf are hopefully going to hang back and just hold onto stuff.

 

 

[Grimnaud]

21 hours ago, The Nameless One said:

I agree with the assessment that’s it’s fragile. Which does feel surprising with four big monsters!

When I’ve used them in the past (and I had the Cloak of Mists and Shadows) I’d tend to rush everything forward - which then died quickly.

 

So, I’m planning to send stuff piece meal. The two Zombie Dragons first, then the two Terrorgheists. Ghouls, Necromancer and Varghulf are hopefully going to hang back and just hold onto stuff.

 

 

Sending them in piece meal is probably wise. Once the monsters are gone the game is all but over, so keeping some in reserve isn´t a bad idea.

But at that point, is the Menagerie worth paying for? You´re paying a hundred and ten points for a 6" free move and the potential to heal a wound. In my experience, the healing ability is rarely useful. After the second turn charges have usually taken them outside of 5", or they´re not wounded, or in one case so wounded that even a wound a turn for the rest of the game wound´t have made a difference.

Because the thing is that if you´re running pure FEC, you can get discount versions of those effects without paying the points. Terrorgheists heal naturally within 5" of a ghoul king, who does´t even need to be your general, and the flayed pennant will give you +3 to charge-rolls with a re-roll of 1´s with the Crusading Army trait.

Sure, you´re giving up the "guaranteed" alpha strike, but get the chance to use Horrors/Flayers as battle line, and can use less than three monsters plus a king. Plus, unless you´re going to combine a menagerie with a ghoul patrol, you´re probably not going to be able to dictate who gets the first turn anyways.

I abandoned the pure FEC-ship for GA:D, so I really don´t know the answer, but it´s worth thinking about.

[nuttyknatty]

All great points @Grimnaud!

And I think I agree with all of them! 

I'm really going to try and use that extra 6" a bit more tactically this weekend (rather than just using it in my first turn to get the charges off as I have done in the past). I'm going to try and use it to maybe retreat my wounded monster out, and then replace that one with another. As I said, piecemeal.

But I'm no way a competitive player, and I'll be happy just to get 5 games in with some good opponents.

[TheWilddog]

Have been tinkering about with a Flayer spam list a bunch recently and as my previous posts have indicated I have been somewhat satisfied with such lists.  However, I think one addition would really boost up the army.  If we had a way to get a +1 to hit buff onto the Flayers I think it would be game changing. (We had a +1 to hit and +1 to wound from the old AGK scroll from the Death Allegiance book). Having a way to push up mortal wound with the Flayers mobility would give us the alpha striking killing power we need without a real range threat.  We would be in a similar vein as the Murderhost lists from the Khorne armies (though prob not quite as good).  Also, the way the buff would come (probably as a spell or new command ability from a squishy hero) would make it vulnerable enough to disruption to make it not overly oppressive.  What are your guys thoughts? I really think this one addition could lift up the whole army somewhat.    

[The_Chin]

Its pure wishlisting at this stage, but the new death character - shroud knight, or whatever he's called - could potentially give us that. I'm hoping we'll see something in the malignant portents expansion that fill out some gaps in our lists like that

 

[Thanatos Ares]

On 16/11/2017 at 11:58 AM, Grimnaud said:

I abandoned the pure FEC-ship for GA:D, so I really don´t know the answer, but it´s worth thinking about.

Unfortunately I’m in the same boat.

i used to run a menagerie and it was very fragile. But since moving to GA: D I’ve found my monsters a lot more potent.

I’ve included my list as I’ve had great success with it vs a lot of the more competitive lists around at the moment. 

My only advice would be keep persevering with your list and tweak bits at a time to see if little changes make that crucial difference.

happy gaming!!

[MrCharisma]

Thanks for the feedback @Grimnaud and @The Nameless One . The Royal Menagerie is the formation that got me excited to play FEC so I'll run it for fun, not because it's super competitive.

If the formation isn't valuable, I can always drop it and take more Ghouls or run Ghoul Patrol... so my monsters fly in from the front while my Ghouls hit them from the back. 

I'm just having fun converting them up TBH. 

I do appreciate all the insights though!

[TheWilddog]

As I wrote back a couple months ago, the Mortis Engine has been great for me as an ally.  In fact I have been enjoying it so much that not only have I converted one up but I decided to run 2.  I really like what it does for the cost.  It has good mobility and with the scream and reliquary blast it can dish out some mortals at range (something this army really needs).  Might not be the most rock hard list but it is fun to play.

Something like this:

 

(Reroll 1 on charge delusion)

AGKoTG (Grim Garland)                                                             400

Infernal Crypt Courtier (General - Dark Wizardry)    140 

AGK on foot                                                                                        120

Vargulf Courtier                                                                               160

 

Crypt Flayers x 9                                                                             480

Crypt Flayer   x3                                                                               160

Crypt Flayer   x3                                                                               160

 

Allies:

Mortis Engine                                                                                   180

Mortis Engine                                                                                   180

 

                                                                                                                  1980

What do you guys think?  Anyone else ran 2 Mortis Engines?

[Grimnaud]

First of, I love that conversion! Great work!

It looks like a really fun list to play, with a lot of bravery-attacks and a nice debuff from the Grim Garland. One questions though: Why run a GK on foot when the Infernal already has the same spell?  Seems like a necromancer on nightmare would be a better fit.

Now, you'd have to drop something to make room for it, but some summoning point might not be a bad idea. 10 zombies to hold an objective, or 5 dire wolves to screen a unit can be worth their weight in gold. Your units of 3 Flayers will do a much better job in CC, but a 160 point unit is expensive as a throw-away, and with most of the battleplans being written the way they are, numbers alone is often enough rob you of objectives.

But how do you like the mortis engine? How do you use it? I have one semi-assembled on a shelf, and I've tried it for a couple of games, but so far I'm sort of meh. I like the buffs to casting, but the fact that the scream attack happens in the hero phase really annoys me. Because that means that I really need to get it into CC (or at least into an easy charge range) if I want it to do something in the NEXT turn. Which I might not get.  So yeah.

[TheWilddog]

3 hours ago, Grimnaud said:

First of, I love that conversion! Great work!

It looks like a really fun list to play, with a lot of bravery-attacks and a nice debuff from the Grim Garland. One questions though: Why run a GK on foot when the Infernal already has the same spell?  Seems like a necromancer on nightmare would be a better fit.

Now, you'd have to drop something to make room for it, but some summoning point might not be a bad idea. 10 zombies to hold an objective, or 5 dire wolves to screen a unit can be worth their weight in gold. Your units of 3 Flayers will do a much better job in CC, but a 160 point unit is expensive as a throw-away, and with most of the battleplans being written the way they are, numbers alone is often enough rob you of objectives.

But how do you like the mortis engine? How do you use it? I have one semi-assembled on a shelf, and I've tried it for a couple of games, but so far I'm sort of meh. I like the buffs to casting, but the fact that the scream attack happens in the hero phase really annoys me. Because that means that I really need to get it into CC (or at least into an easy charge range) if I want it to do something in the NEXT turn. Which I might not get.  So yeah.

I ran the Necro with the Mortis Engine for awhile and liked it quite a bit.  When I was testing the double Mortis I had to drop him due to not having enough allies points but I still wanted another caster so I threw in the AGK.  Honestly the Necro was most of the time throwing Mystic Shield around anyway so I did not notice much of a difference.  

I have ran some summoning in the past and agree it can be a good option. 

I usually have the Mortis Engine push forward with the AGK on TG and support him.  This way it is up in range of the Garland buff.  The hero phase scream can be annoying at times but it is what it is.

[5kaven5lave]

Guys, could someone do me a huge favour and explain how making the Courtiers works? For Ghouls, for example, in a box of 20 how many do you need  to make one and are you left with an odd number? 

 

Cheers!!

[TheWilddog]

44 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Guys, could someone do me a huge favour and explain how making the Courtiers works? For Ghouls, for example, in a box of 20 how many do you need  to make one and are you left with an odd number? 

 

Cheers!!

Yea it stinks but you just end up with an uneven number.  For example in the Ghoul box you can make 1 or 2 Courtiers and end up with 19 or 18 Ghouls.  This is not that big a deal as you can find Ghouls (even single Ghouls) on ebay dirt cheap.  The real annoying part is the Crypt Horror/Flayer box.  Making the Courtiers out of those leaves you with an odd number and they are harder and less cheap to pick up elsewhere.

[Uveron]

1 hour ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Guys, could someone do me a huge favour and explain how making the Courtiers works? For Ghouls, for example, in a box of 20 how many do you need  to make one and are you left with an odd number? 

 

Cheers!!

You could find a model of similar size and convert someone who looks a bit more 'Grand'... 

Maybe an Oger or something.. 

[Inqy]

Chaos spawn are fun to combine with left over limbs for a Crypt Haunter.

[Grimnaud]

If I needed another Ghast Courtier, I would probably pick up an Ur-Ghoul from the Drukhari range. 

[Kisufisu]

Agreed, it is annoying that the courtiers leave the rest of the guys uneven. With ghast courtiers its pretty easy to build something cool out of random bits, the bigger guys are indeed tougher.

I made a crypt infernal courtier out of an old spiderman toy's "tiny" familiar:

It is pretty much the same size as the flayers, a bit taller than them due to sitting on the crystal thingie. Ofc this is just a random example, most people probably won't find a fitting toy from their childhood to convert into something

Coming up with a crypt haunter courtier has been harder. I did find an old warzone miniature from my bitzbox, somekind of weird alien-demon thing, that I might try to convert into one. That one is shorter than the horrors though, so might have to figure something out.

[The_Chin]

Wouldn't mind the groups thoughts on this list for an upcoming tournament:

Allegiance Flesh Eater Courts - Delusion: Crusading Army

Crypt Haunter Courtier (120)
- General
- Command Trait : Dark Wizardry

Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheist (400)
- Artefact : The Grim Garland

Abhorrant Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon (440)

Crypt Ghast Courtier (80)

9 x Crypt Horrors (480)

40 x Crypt Ghouls (360)

10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)

 

Total: 1980 / 2000

Allies: 0 / 400

Leaders: 4/6 Battlelines: 4 (3+) Behemoths: 2/4 Artillery: 0/4

 

Also, does the gkozd's spell work on the zombie dragon he's riding as its all models within 9 inches? 
 

[flowerpot_chimp]

1 hour ago, The_Chin said:

Also, does the gkozd's spell work on the zombie dragon he's riding as its all models within 9 inches? 

The dragon is within 10" of itself so yes it would. 

I quite like the list? I think the general consensus seems to be that unless you have a specific plan in mind that Crypt Flayers are a better buy than Crypt Horrors at the moment. You've got the points spare to swap the Haunter Courtier for an Infernal Courtier. Flayers will be able to keep up with your big monsters and be a source of mortal wounds, whilst your Horror unit kinda wants to fight the same sort of stuff as your big Ghoul horde.

I would also consider maybe changing the Delusion? Obviously charging is super important* but because the Courtier is your general if you took The Grand Tournament you would actually get the benefit of those rerolls to hit on your big monsters that rely on their swingy 4+ to hit rolls, which might be quite nice (plus it would also provide some rerolls if you took Flayers who otherwise get basically no synergy out of the list).

 

* the Flayed Pennant can help out charges though!

[The_Chin]

54 minutes ago, flowerpot_chimp said:

I would also consider maybe changing the Delusion? Obviously charging is super important* but because the Courtier is your general if you took The Grand Tournament you would actually get the benefit of those rerolls to hit on your big monsters that rely on their swingy 4+ to hit rolls, which might be quite nice (plus it would also provide some rerolls if you took Flayers who otherwise get basically no synergy out of the list).

I'm trying to build as many redundancies into the list as I can, so the constant reroll 1's on charges and runs I've found very helpful, considering I can't roll dice to save my life! 

I'm not familiar with the grand tournament delusion, so I'll have to read up on that. 

I may change out for the flayers - it would be a useful set of mortal wounds, combined with the +1 attack spell from the dark wizardry courtier and the GKoZD rerolls to wound.  At this stage a lot of it will come down to what I have painted and can get done in time!

 

[Glaurung]

Do you guys think we wil have updated rules in the next death Battletome?
I fear we might get left behind... 

[Elmir]

On 4-12-2017 at 9:03 PM, TheWilddog said:

Yea it stinks but you just end up with an uneven number.  For example in the Ghoul box you can make 1 or 2 Courtiers and end up with 19 or 18 Ghouls.  This is not that big a deal as you can find Ghouls (even single Ghouls) on ebay dirt cheap.  The real annoying part is the Crypt Horror/Flayer box.  Making the Courtiers out of those leaves you with an odd number and they are harder and less cheap to pick up elsewhere.

I had a spare plague priest laying around that I converted up into a crypt ghast courtier: 



You get plenty of head and other bobs to make this fairly simple conversion out of the plague priest... Not too sure how easy they are to get a hold off though, I guess ebay would be your friend. 

[Chickenbits]

Taking this list to a tournament I'm hosting in a few weeks: Total 1980/2000 pts

Starting delusion: Crusading army

AGK on dragon (440 points)

General. Warlord trait: completely delusional. Artefact: the flayed pennant

Crypt ghast courtier (80 pts)

Artefact: splintervale broach

3 x 10 ghouls (300 pts)

2 Terror (600 pts)

1 dragon (300 pts)

Battalions:

Menagerie

Ghoul Patrol

 

I've read about others experiences with the Menagerie and I hope that I can bypass some of the issues with this list. I disagree with the claims that you pay 110 pts for "just a 6" move and 1 extra healing". Getting to deploy them all at once is a huge boost. Coupled with the ghoul patrol, I only have 3 drops, which should let me decide who starts against most armies. 

The idea is simple. I move all my stuff across, and pop the pennant. With the menagerie move, I should now be 4" away from his front, meaning that I can't fail a charge with my regular monsters if I use the item. My king should be 10" away, so a 7" charge. I start of with Crusading army to increase the odds of my King and patrol getting into combat. I'm also hoping that by re-rolling 1s and getting a +3 on my charge, I should be able to charge over annoying screens with the regular monsters and be able to target jucier targets in the back. The trait on my king let's me change the delusion for turn 2. If I face a monster-heavy list and I'm feeling lucky, I might use it to switch for the monster-hunting one turn 1.

Ghast simply tries to get into a good position, where he can replenish dead ghouls and hopefully sabotage some spellcasting.

 

That's the rough idea  Hoping to test this list soon enough. I'm a bit worried about the new Nurgle stuff, since I might lack the MW nessesary to bypass all their rediculous saves, but otherwise I should probably be able to deliver a solid punch. Tzeentch might get awkward, with him sniping of my king with Changeling + Lord of change switcheroo combos, followed up by me killing his LoC... and then just an awkward game of holding objectives and staying out of range of spells

[MrCharisma]

Funnily enough I've been toying with a list very similar to this... Menagerie & Patrol could be a sweet combo. I just worry about the amount of Ghouls (or lack of). 

I was going to run 2 TG& 1 ZD with a AGK on TD. 

Let us know how the list performs.