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Arkiham

Let's chat : Nurgle

748 posts in this topic

LLC    0

Question!!!

For the plaguebearers' locus ability you can reroll saves of 1. Is that only on the first save roll or can I reroll 1s for disgusting resillience??

 

 

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2 hours ago, LLC said:

Question!!!

For the plaguebearers' locus ability you can reroll saves of 1. Is that only on the first save roll or can I reroll 1s for disgusting resillience??

 

 

I don’t re-roll DR as it is an ability roll to ignore the wound. Not a Save roll to Save against it.

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Retro    12
On 10/11/2017 at 11:23 AM, Tasman said:

Play it how you want.... I'm just looking at Tzeentch not allying with Nurgle unless you are playing straight chaos.

The book only specifies slaves to darkness models with mark of tzeentch being ineligible, have a look at the punctuation.

If sayl can be taken as a slaves to darkness ally, GS can be taken as an everchosen ally.

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Tasman    90
7 hours ago, Retro said:

The book only specifies slaves to darkness models with mark of tzeentch being ineligible, have a look at the punctuation.

If sayl can be taken as a slaves to darkness ally, GS can be taken as an everchosen ally.

What does Sayl have to do with it? He doesn't have any marks in his keywords at all.

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On ‎11‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 6:02 PM, Tasman said:

Um, nope. GS is Tzeentch,  Everchosen keyword doesn't matter here. Tzeentch can't ally with Nurgle. Play straight chaos alliance, then yeah, it's ok.

 

The main point of contention here is what can or cannot be taken. The nurgle profile states, slaves to darkness (except for those with the mark of tzeench). This specifically states slaves to darkness units. While the recent faq establishes that a tzeentch army refers to all units with the tzeentch keyword, the opposite of this is not true. For instance, clan pestilens has the nurgle keyword. However, if you were running a clan skryre army, who are allied with clan pestilens, you could not take plague bearers. Why, have I found a neat loophole? According to the faq under your interpretation, pestilens=nurgle (because slaves to darkness-tzeentch=tzeentch)  so I should be able to take whatever nurgle type things I want .

While the gaunt summoner has the tzeenctch keyword, which may disqualify it from being an ally by that route you propose, it has the everchosen keyword (an entire faction, according to you, which is not eligible to be allied with anyone despite being allies with every non-skaven chaos faction, because they possess a chaos mark that could be in direct opposition of that particular god)

So do you interpret the rules as every demon faction can ally with two other entire demon factions because slaves to darkness=every demon faction, and  that the everchosen faction cant ally with anyone because they have the opposing demons enemy keyword?

 

Edited by robotnik_taco

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Uveron    124
13 minutes ago, robotnik_taco said:

While i can see your argument, this way of thinking invalidates any chaos god aligned archaon lists.

He possesses all of the chaos god allegiances, there for making him, according to your logic, allegiance breakers for any slaanesh(khorne), tzeench(nurgle), nurgle(tzeentch), or khorne(slaanesh), as he possesses the type they cannot ally with. 

The main point of contention here is what can or cannot be taken. The nurgle profile states, slaves to darkness (except for those with the mark of tzeench). This specifically states slaves to darkness units. While the recent faq establishes that a tzeentch army refers to all units with the tzeentch keyword, the opposite of this is not true. For instance, clan pestilens has the nurgle keyword. However, if you were running a clan skryre army, who are allied with clan pestilens, you could not take plague bearers. Why, have I found a neat loophole? According to the faq under your interpretation, pestilens=nurgle (because slaves to darkness-tzeentch=tzeentch)  so I should be able to take whatever nurgle type things I want .

While the gaunt summoner has the tzeenctch keyword, which may disqualify it from being an ally by that route you propose, it has the everchosen keyword (an entire faction, according to you, which is not eligible to be allied with anyone despite being allies with every non-skaven chaos faction, because they possess a chaos mark that could be in direct opposition of that particular god)

So do you interpret the rules as every demon faction can ally with two other entire demon factions because slaves to darkness=every demon faction, and  that the everchosen faction cant ally with anyone because they have the opposing demons enemy keyword?

Because if you do the nice people in the various archaon threads would appreciate this knowledge that they can use fate dice or blood tithe because he is also nurgle/slaanesh marked .

@Tasman argument doesn't do this, as you do not Allie in Archaon you take him as part of your list and becuse he has the relevant 'God' keyword. Also if we look at plague monks, you can allie them with Clan Skryre; as Clan Skryre does not say 'no to mark of nurgle'... it just says you can allie in units with the Clan Pestilence keyword. 

That being said! @robotnik_tacoI agree with you logic about the fact that the Tzeench ban  is on units allied using the Slaves to Darkness keyword.  But that being said I understand Tasmans reluctance to agree with this interpretation, as it could very well be an oversight. Given that this is the only unit that has a 'Mark' and not from a god specific fraction or slaves to darkness.  and it would not suprise me that if a Nugrle book was to be relised that if it clarifies allieances, then it would block this as well. 

At this point, we are waiting on GW. My interp is that by RaW its allowed, but a good RaI can be made, which I think is Tasmans point. And one we should respect and move on from. 

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19 minutes ago, Uveron said:

@Tasman argument doesn't do this, as you do not Allie in Archaon you take him as part of your list and becuse he has the relevant 'God' keyword. Also if we look at plague monks, you can allie them with Clan Skryre; as Clan Skryre does not say 'no to mark of nurgle'... it just says you can allie in units with the Clan Pestilence keyword. 

That being said! @robotnik_tacoI agree with you logic about the fact that the Tzeench ban  is on units allied using the Slaves to Darkness keyword.  But that being said I understand Tasmans reluctance to agree with this interpretation, as it could very well be an oversight. Given that this is the only unit that has a 'Mark' and not from a god specific fraction or slaves to darkness.  and it would not suprise me that if a Nugrle book was to be relised that if it clarifies allieances, then it would block this as well. 

At this point, we are waiting on GW. My interp is that by RaW its allowed, but a good RaI can be made, which I think is Tasmans point. And one we should respect and move on from. 

I think the issue hes picking up on was the from the faq that says anything with the chaos god keyword is there for considered that army (pestilens has the mark of nurgle so =nurgle, slaves to darkness has tzeentch keyword =tzeentch https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/15/chaos-warscroll-updatesgw-homepage-post-4/) and hes reverse engineering the rules to mean that a specific faction includes its entire god faction. the skryre thing was sarcasm that didn't translate.

Edited by robotnik_taco

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Uveron    124
2 minutes ago, robotnik_taco said:

I think the issue hes picking up on was the from the faq that says anything with the chaos god keyword is there for considered that army (pestilens has the mark of nurgle so =nurgle, slaves to darkness has tzeentch keyword =tzeentch) and hes reverse engineering the rules to mean that a specific faction includes it entire god faction. the skryre thing was sarcasm that didn't translate.

No, this conversation had been going on for a bit. And we had already covered that ground. 

Also for extra confusion, the FAQ says nothing on the issue. A post on the community site talks about it, but its not yet in the official FAQ.  

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Point taken. I'll move along. 

So has anyone done any comparing between large groups of plague toads vs plague drones? Or pox riders vs drones? Toads seem like a great value but drones seem much more versatile in their superior movement and kill capacity, or is this apples and oranges

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spenson    7

Well it's more like apples and expensive oranges (almost 85€ for 3 pox riders).

Edited by spenson

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Uveron    124
2 minutes ago, Vomikron Noxis said:

Everyone loves toads, but what do they actually do that plaguebearers don’t?

Move fast, Shoot... 

They compare to drones more than Plaguebeares... as for which is better I do not know as I have never used Toads. 

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shadowgra    116

Plaguebearers are slower, costs more per wounds, have a worse DR, cannot shoot, deal less damage. Plaguebearers tho can restore models and have penalties to hit.

I honestly prefer toads and by far

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shadowgra    116

I often thought about a full swarm tecnique with daemons.

Also because otherwise they lack so much compared to mortals. You could do something like this:

Guo (240) cunnin deceiver, chaos talisman

Guo (240) 

30 plaguebearers (270)

10 marauders (60)

10 marauders (60)

12 plague toads (320)

12 plague toads (320)

6 drones (440)

Tot 1950

I woudl still prefer to drop drones for other plaguebearers and have some unkillable blobs in order to swamp the enemy.

The only problems with this list is that is slow as ******. Toads kinda male up for that but you are a less damaging and tankier fyreslayer. Also with less mobility since you cannot tunnel

 

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Avvien    0

New guy here about to leap into my first ever match VS my friend's Daughters of Khaine.

We're starting off with a 1000 points game, where he'll run;

 

A hag

2 cauldrons

60 Witch Aelves

 

Meanwhile, this is the list I'm thinking to test against him:

 

Harbinger of Decay - 140

-      Beguiling Gem

-      Dark Avenger

-      Morbid Vigour

Chaos Sorcerer Lord - 160

-      Crown of Conquest

20x Chaos Marauders - 120

-      Axes & Shields

-      Damned Icon

-      Mark of Nurgle

5x Putrid Blightkings - 180

3x Plague Drones - 220

Plagueclaw - 180

1000/1000

 

I'm thinking I might swap out the plagueclaw for 5 more blightkings, not sure.

Either way, I could really use some advice on what else might be sweet in this list. I see people speak warmly about furies? Or maybe Chaos Knights?

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shadowgra    116

I really think that dropping drones for some more mortals would be beneficial.

I like knights when you can purchase the plaguetouched (they are regardless a good unit). What about something like this?

Harbinger (dark avenger, chaos talisman)

CSL

5 blightkings

5 blightkings

10 marauders

15 chaos warriors

 

You have a good amount of bodies, kinda tanky, 2 blightkings will melt witch aelves. 10 marauders for capping.

Be careful that the beguiling gem only affects 1 model, so it is rather inefficient in most cases. 

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Avvien    0

I don't actually have any chaos warriors handy. The idea for the drones was that they'd give me some speed, a bit of range, and even bonus mortal wounds since Harbinger has Daemon keyword - But for a list without them, I have enough Blightkings to field something like;

 

Harbinger of Decay

Chaos Sorcerer Lord

Lord of Plagues

10x Chaos Marauders

5x Putrid Blightkings

5x Putrid Blightkings

5x Putrid Blightkings

 

Again, his Witch Aelves make for a really big and juicy target, so I could cut 5 kings for a Plagueclaw and field them as a unit of 10 for big buffs.

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LLC    0
24 minutes ago, Avvien said:

I don't actually have any chaos warriors handy. The idea for the drones was that they'd give me some speed, a bit of range, and even bonus mortal wounds since Harbinger has Daemon keyword - But for a list without them, I have enough Blightkings to field something like;

 

 

Harbinger of Decay

Chaos Sorcerer Lord

Lord of Plagues

10x Chaos Marauders

5x Putrid Blightkings

5x Putrid Blightkings

5x Putrid Blightkings

 

Again, his Witch Aelves make for a really big and juicy target, so I could cut 5 kings for a Plagueclaw and field them as a unit of 10 for big buffs.

In my opinion just put as many kings as you can. If you even touch them, loads will die.

 

 

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LLC    0
28 minutes ago, Avvien said:

I don't actually have any chaos warriors handy. The idea for the drones was that they'd give me some speed, a bit of range, and even bonus mortal wounds since Harbinger has Daemon keyword - But for a list without them, I have enough Blightkings to field something like;

 

 

Harbinger of Decay

Chaos Sorcerer Lord

Lord of Plagues

10x Chaos Marauders

5x Putrid Blightkings

5x Putrid Blightkings

5x Putrid Blightkings

 

Again, his Witch Aelves make for a really big and juicy target, so I could cut 5 kings for a Plagueclaw and field them as a unit of 10 for big buffs.

Right so, put +1 to hit against order on your general, HoD, run him with the kings. You have a 4+,5++, 2 to hit, 5s and 6s cause D6 attacks an woundsing on 3s. You can literally 1 shot his 60 w your 15. 

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Avvien    0

What about the Chaos Sorcerer Lord? 160 does seem a little pricy.

If I cut the Lord of Plagues -and- the CSL, I could instead field another 10x Chaos Marauders, 10x Plaguebearers, and 1 Herald of Nurgle?

 

Harbinger of Decay

Herald of Nurgle

10x Plaguebearers of Nurgle

10x Chaos Marauders

10x Chaos Marauders

5x Putrid Blightkings

5x Putrid Blightkings

5x Putrid Blightkings

 

That's a lot of bodies, then again the Daemonic Power buff from the CSL still looks pretty tempting.

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