Plus 1s and rerolls

[Chris Thompson]

Just been looking at a new idea for a order list and while talking over with a mate a question popped up , If my dwarfs hit on a 3+ and reroll 1s and then they get a +1 to hit from another source , i hit on 2+ but do i still reroll my 1s . The reason i ask is , with ogres i get a 5+ save and a 6 does a mortal wound on the attacker (ironfist) but i have always played it that if i suffer a rend i dont get that mortal wound due to not being able to roll 6 . 6 becomes a 5 due to the minus 1 .

I guess what im asking is , does the modifiers change my dice roll , or just the stats on the warscroll ?

[KnightFire]

Rerolls happen before modifiers

Modifiers affect dice rolls

Then abilities trigger

 

If your _duardin_ hit on 3s and reroll 1's, and get given +1 to hit, you roll the dice, reroll any 1's, then add 1 to the score of each dice. This makes it very hard for you not to hit.

You are correct on the rend and the reflected damage. It is also the case the other way around though, if you get a mystic shield on them, and they are hit with weapons without rend, then rolls of 5 or 6 will reflect the damage (and 4s will save)

[Chris Thompson]

Thank you

 

[Arkiham]

roll dice>rerolls> dice result> modifiers>end result.

[Nico]

Some rules trigger on a natural six (some of the bounce back wound armour for example - Chaos Dwarves) so these aren't subject to modifiers.

Conversely if they are on a "6 or more", then you would reroll before applying the modifier. So you would reroll the ones irrespective of -1 or +1 to hit.

[Squirrelmaster]

The rules say re-rolls apply before modifiers, but if a rule tells you to re-roll successes, failures, results of "6 or more", etc. then it's a bit of a grey area.

[AdmiralDolphin]

17 hours ago, Nico said:

Some rules trigger on a natural six (some of the bounce back wound armour for example - Chaos Dwarves) so these aren't subject to modifiers.

Conversely if they are on a "6 or more", then you would reroll before applying the modifier. So you would reroll the ones irrespective of -1 or +1 to hit.

To be honest, when I think about it, there is nowhere stated that rules "on the roll of x" aren't subject to modifiers. There are just trigggered on that single value witch in raw rules is counted after modyfiers but befor checking test result. Of course I play exactly like You said and I think that everyone play like this, but imo in raw rules it should be like this: when ABILITY triggers on roll of 6 for save roll, You roll dice,reroll it, apply  modifiers check value of roll, trigger abilities and then check does this pss Your test. For exaple if something triggers on rol of 6 and there is only +1modifier it would trigger on rolls of 5. And at  this point we are back to reroll issue witch was mentioned x times, that just show us how much this 4pages of rules are full of miss wording and rule holes.

[Squirrelmaster]

@AdmiralDolphin The 4 pages of rules, page 1, "Tools of War", last paragraph, last sentence:

Quote

You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls happen before modifiers to the roll (if any) are applied.

(emphasis mine)

Most people assume that if a rule talks about successes, failures, or results "of 6 or more", then we should ignore this rule and apply modifiers first, then re-rolls. I'm not aware of any actual rule to that effect, though.

[AdmiralDolphin]

@Squirrelmaster If i'm not mistaklen You are talking about my last paragraph about rerolls. I think that We shouldnt ignore one of the basic rules of the game, look that every abiliti that gives You rerol state "You can reroll" - thats because You know that after modifiers it will be a success.  Ignoring rules witch states a order of actions will just make more problems in the future, We have to divide our knowledge form what game "know". When You roll You and the game know geniue value for example 3,now You CAN reroll that (for the example its wound test for plague monks with +1 to wound with reroll all failed wound rolls) at this point this roll is failed couse You didnt pass your test 4+ so You have rights to reroll that roll. but You as the player know that after that You have +1 so it will be passed roll so you decide to not rerolling, now game add modifiers, at this point game know that it has value of 4 and go to next phase Abilities, whis non triggers couse you dont have roll of value 6 or more and now its chcecks final test result. like You see every abbility will trigger affter modifiers unless it states otherwise. And we shouldnt add modifieres to rolls befor rerolls when they dosent exist yet in the game just because in that way we will roll like we are used to in oldhammer