Hayday Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Looking at the results from the SCGT this weekend, not a single Death player made it into the top 20! If we put the argument for some Death love to one side (in the form of new battletomes, models or point changes in GH2) what can we do to combat the current meta? How can you see Death competing against the likes of the top tier Choas, Stormcast and Sylvaneth lists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Ares Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Put simply, it cannot Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillofNagash Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 First place death was #30. Hmm, makes me wonder is people are just not playing it correctly or if the points are way off. To not be a downer I propose some new style lists. Nagash. With basic battleline to summon in some hard hitting stuff for an alpha strike. I won a tournament (local small one, so it's not a great example) with the following list: Nagash Lich Priest 3x20 skeletons. rest is summoning. Summoned in 4 harbingers that almost always make the 9" charge and with the priests spell wreck face. Also ive been looking at the Ushabti. They are similar to the sky fires. Also 24" range and cheaper... try 27 ushabti with bows in a list. Might be worth it. Tell me what you guys think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 The problem death has compared to the other factions is a few things. Sideboard tournament scenes sorta cut into the usefulness of summoning (Not a thing at SCGT as far as i can understand). Death as a faction is a lot smaller than the others. The other factions have the luxury of picking the best unit for the job, while we have much few options. As a faction, death is Tough, Slow, and lack punch. Which is a great trope, but with scenarios based around scoring objectives early this simply doesn't work. By the time death makes it to the party we are always fighting to get the enemy off an objective, rather than ever holding an objective. So, while we are great at holding objectives getting to this situation is difficult or impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillofNagash Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 i find i can just summon onto objectives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, WillofNagash said: i find i can just summon onto objectives You can but against a competent player you shouldn't have the chance. Against any new battle tome odds are they can deploy thier army in one drop. If they can pick who goes first they should pick themselves and claim the objective from you with throw away models, or move up such that you can't summon models close enough to the objective to score because of 9" bubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillofNagash Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 i have to dissagree, i think we have one of the strongest battleline units in the game. Skeleton Warriors. We also have lots of movement if we use VLoAT. We also have some of the hardest hitting units in the game: VLoZD. and i havent even mentioned a monster noone wants to deal with: Mornghoul. I think there are some combos that people just havent figured out yet. If we play mixed Death I think we can be a real contender, but as death players we like to stick to one faction or another at its more fluffy and fun. If i remember correct didnt Death win the first round of the GT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiez Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 15 minutes ago, WillofNagash said: If i remember correct didnt Death win the first round of the GT? Tomb Kings, without any other Death unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayniac Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 How does death fit into the current meta? They don't. Tomb Kings are basically keeping the entire faction afloat as more than a footnote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FRoper Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 tomb kings, and pure night haunt, but even then nighthaunt is not even that good against other lists. we lack options!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countmoore Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Hey guys, I was the guy who took best death in 30th and have been paying death almost since AOS started and seen some changes in fortune over that time with the faction. My list was Nagash, Vlad, Isabella, Count Mannfred and 3 x 10 zombies. There was also a 560 summoning pool and I had a massive box of tricks to play with. Got four major wins a very tight major loss on the twitch stream to the 27 sky fire list where two extra wounds won me the game (Vlad failed a 3" charge). Only game I had no chance in was against the Rukk / stonehorn list in the last round. There are definitely options there for good competitive lists and we are surprisingly good against stormcast, sylvaneth and the new Tzentch stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FRoper Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 43 minutes ago, Countmoore said: Hey guys, I was the guy who took best death in 30th and have been paying death almost since AOS started and seen some changes in fortune over that time with the faction. My list was Nagash, Vlad, Isabella, Count Mannfred and 3 x 10 zombies. There was also a 560 summoning pool and I had a massive box of tricks to play with. Got four major wins a very tight major loss on the twitch stream to the 27 sky fire list where two extra wounds won me the game (Vlad failed a 3" charge). Only game I had no chance in was against the Rukk / stonehorn list in the last round. There are definitely options there for good competitive lists and we are surprisingly good against stormcast, sylvaneth and the new Tzentch stuff. What did you typically summon during the games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countmoore Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, FRoper said: What did you typically summon during the games? Changed in every game depending on scenario and what scored. Over the weekend though 4 Harbingers and 10 skells (2 games) 10 dire wolves, 2 harbingers and zombies 2x2 harbingers and 10 skells 2 harbingers, 10 skells and 3x10 zombies (battleline scenario) Vortex, banshee, wraith and 10 zombies (leader mission) v rukk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace108 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I won a recent tournament with a death list. It was only 1200 point. Skellies x 40. 10 zombies. 2 vampire Lords, 10 hexwraiths and 5 hexwraiths. 60 points for summoning zombies onto objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace108 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 14 minutes ago, Countmoore said: Changed in every game depending on scenario and what scored. Over the weekend though 4 Harbingers and 10 skells (three games I think) 2x2 harbingers and 10 skells 2 harbingers, 10 skells and 3x10 zombies (battleline scenario) Vortex, banshee, wraith and 10 zombies (leader mission) v rukk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippyRick Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I was also at SCGT this weekend with Death. Had a great day 1, played on the stream 1st game with a win and ended the day on table 1 and only just lost to Tzeentch playing a tough scenario for my army and few minor bits of luck the other way i think i cold have won. Dint get any priority rolls and that makes it tough when fighting from behind. My list was Vampire Lord, Isabella, 3 x 10 Skellies, 2 x 6 Spirit Hosts, 10 Bloodknights, Mourngul and 140 Summoning Pool. I came 44th with 3 major wins, 2 minor Loss and 1 Major Loss. Both minor wins i could have won, one being game 6 i felt i should have was it not for some serious bad luck in game which would have put me 21st. The Major loss was vs BCR monsters plus kunnin rukk and it was over by turn 2 after being double turned. TBF, if i had known we would only get 2 turns in with the time i would have played it different and gambled through the realm gate for 9 points turn 1 and prob been up still when we ran out of time, but woudlnt have known that before and would have lost if we played longer i expect, so that's not worth thinking out really. That is just a bad matchup for my army! I would say now, the SCGT Pack wasnt helpful for my list (it was my new army and decided not to change much for it for this) so that was always going to make it harder for me. In GHB it has done me well at 2 events prior, 3rd at Tomorrow Burns (60 players) and 11th at Sheffield (80-100 players ish), and i would happily continue taking it. I also have many other ideas i think could work for my list and others. FEC is also really strong and has a few list options, so as @Countmoore says, i think there is enough to keep us going even without Tomb Kings. Congrats by the way @Countmoore on the top death, thought i was going to pip you by winning last game but dice were against me last game in everything i did and couldnt drag out the win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countmoore Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 35 minutes ago, ChippyRick said: Congrats by the way @Countmoore on the top death, thought i was going to pip you by winning last game but dice were against me last game in everything i did and couldnt drag out the win. Cheers mate ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Congrats @Countmoore on top death this year! I came 56th at SCGT with 3 major wins, 1 minor win and 2 major losses. (Losing to Lez Martin's stormcast stardrake of nothing can wound me list in scenario 3 where it is all about the general, which was looking like I would win but when flipped around in 1 turn to Lez, and in game 4 where 1 placement mistake cost me the game due to the nature of my list) My list was VLZD,VLAT, Isabella, 20 skeles, 2 x 10 skeles, 2 Mournguls and 60 points for summoning (10 zombies,5 dire wolves or a cairn wraith). VLZD had ruler of the night and cursed book to tag team with the mourngul's minus to hit ability. I felt the list was strong with the combo of the minus to hit and double moving Mournguls and the VLZD where needed. However, it is a list where I can't make a mistake because I have so few units that are doing all of the work. It also suffers from scenarios where I have to spread out over the course of the game for different objectives, when having to send a Mourngul out to take on the world and make loads of new friends. See my game on stream, game 4 where I made the mistake of over committing a Mourngul turn 1 to score early and didn't respect my opponents army being able to 1 shot the Mourngul, before it could attack and heal. Then with a bit below average dice rolls (always blame the dice ) I gave the game away but even though it dashed my chances of competing for top death it was really fun to play I honestly wasn't expecting to do that well this year and was mainly interested to see how death did overall. Would be interesting to hear @Countmoore , @ChippyRick and anyone elses opinion on lists without the movement spell from the VLAT when trying to reach out and deal with gunlines as I think compendium is on its way out potentially post GHB2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teletomas Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 @Moon @ChippyRick @Countmoore So seeing how you all played Isabella alone, apart from @Countmoore who did the Isabella/Vlad combo, I'm a little surprised at this, I'm wondering whether the reason for taking her is mostly for the possibility of a cheap mystic shield/arcane bolt? And maybe the occasional low bravery opponent or what? Also, Countmoore: The vortex, I am guessing you summoned it for Isabella to make the arrow boys target themselves? Didn't work out? Cheers for reporting back, all three! Well done, and congrats at Countmoore for placing best as Death. EDIT: Actually, just looking up on Nagash's war scroll now, I'm wondering even more about Isabella....... ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 @Teletomas Isabella at 80pts is a steal compared to 120 for a necromancer or even a vampire lord at 140. Also as my VLAT will likely be wanting to cast double move and I will want a mystic shield. So Isabella either provides this or a source to get my summoned unit on the board. Plus leaders were what you needed to capture objectives in 2 of the scgt scenarios, so an extra cheap one is always handy. I honestly never attempted to cast her spell, as an arcane bolt was usually more useful at the time instead of chancing beating bravery on 2D6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayday Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 Congrats @Moon@Countmoore@ChippyRick on your performances - it's great to see bastions of Death competing at tournaments! Personally I'm going to stick with Death (primarily Deathrattle and Soulblight) because I love the fluff and the models. Plus I like having an army different to the norm, but being able to make it ever so slightly more competitive would be a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teletomas Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 16 minutes ago, Moon said: @Teletomas Isabella at 80pts is a steal compared to 120 for a necromancer or even a vampire lord at 140. Also as my VLAT will likely be wanting to cast double move and I will want a mystic shield. So Isabella either provides this or a source to get my summoned unit on the board. Plus leaders were what you needed to capture objectives in 2 of the scgt scenarios, so an extra cheap one is always handy. I honestly never attempted to cast her spell, as an arcane bolt was usually more useful at the time instead of chancing beating bravery on 2D6 Okay! Thanks for answering. Makes sense actually. Just never thought of her like that. A cheap mystic shield. But off course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Quote Also ive been looking at the Ushabti. They are similar to the sky fires. Also 24" range and cheaper... try 27 ushabti with bows in a list. Might be worth it. Tell me what you guys think. This made me laugh so hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Well done to @Countmoore and @ChippyRick for keeping Death's banner flying. It's tough going for Death under the pack - although with a horde list (Deathrattle or FEC), they probably could threaten DoT armies reliant on Mortal wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Ares Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 You can still be quasi-competitive with death. You just need to be creative with you list writing. Or write a list that will be very strong in certain scenarios and be damned in the other games (at a tourney that is)Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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