wanderingrogue1 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Rukk with beastclaw i think is deffo the strongest list out there atm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 19 hours ago, Pete Scholey said: Would anyone care if he came 48th like me. No. It's pathetic for people to complain about a winner when no one mentions Joe soap down at the bottom end with his poor paint Job. Talking in general terms, without passing judgement on the winner of this particular event, and somewhat playing devil's advocate... Winners get lots of attention, whether they want it or not. For some people* the idea of emulating top players will be very seductive, and if they see that they can potentially win all the glory by narrowly focusing on one aspect of the hobby (competition) whilst heavily neglecting and devaluing others (painting) then isn't that a slippery slope that will gradually erode respect for the painting side of the hobby? Joe Soap is invisible by comparison so the wider impact is non-existent. I guess what I'm saying is, I think it's at least somewhat legitimate to be a little disappointed that the people who get the most attention and glory are not always the best representatives of the hobby. And I'm not necessarily just talking about painting. It's more satisfying to see people being elevated in this way when they're good all-round hobbyists and sportspeople that can inspire others to higher standards across all aspects of the hobby. It's not about knocking a winner off their pedestal, it's about encouraging a different class of winner. I think a tournament that was scored and structured in a way that deliberately rewarded and promoted people with that level of class would be an amazing thing indeed. Again, not passing judgement on any specific people here. Just musing. *Particularly impressionable, younger, newer players - the children are our future! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Heelan Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 17 hours ago, Iain said: These all look great to me, I don't know what people expect!? Painting is a great hobby but it's such a different skill to playing the game, not fair to expect 'Eavy Metal from everyone. F the haters! Yes agree, I think a few posters here are being rather too harsh on Alex's army. It was exactly what I would expect as a event goer to see as the base/acceptable standard. I felt he made a real effort to ensure everything was acceptable. No borderline proxies or anything - stock standard painted for gaming, 'nothing to see here'. 16 hours ago, DynamicCalories said: Yeah I really wish tournaments shared more photos of armies on display! We paid for a gent to come and video/post all weekend, 350+ here https://www.facebook.com/pg/SouthCoastGT/photos/?tab=albums D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Dan Heelan said: We paid for a gent to come and video/post all weekend, 350+ here https://www.facebook.com/pg/SouthCoastGT/photos/?tab=albums D This is great. The reason why I initially didn't find anything was because I was trying to search from the event fb-page, which didn't have anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Heelan Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Oh you can also see coverage at twitch.tv/warhammer and youtube.com/HeelanHammerVideo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 19 hours ago, Dannathar said: The problem with skyfires, khunters with bows and kunnin is not the points, not the dakka and not the characters stuck out of units. The issue is tournaments don't have the right terrain. Look at the tables its a shooting gallery. We need los blocking stuff and a lot of it. So shooters actually need to move and commit to kill stuff. Not just derp shoots with impunity. Every time you try and move a unit you opponents shooting just lets loose. The table we play on around me have good los blocking and shooting is still amazing if you out maneuver your opponent This is a great observation. In the early days of AoS there was a lot of talk and broad agreement that the game works much better with lots of terrain, but it's rare that you ever see it implemented. The vast majority of the tables I see both at club and tournament level look exactly the same as they did in the WHFB days. Perhaps this is something that that should be raised again since all of the people who joined/rejoined the community with the arrival of the General's Handbook may not be aware of this and may have reinfused the scene with some of their old WHFB habits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorPenguin Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I think part of the problem with LOS blocking scenery is that GW sells approximately one piece - the dreadfort tower thing (unless you want to invest £300 in the whole dreadfort). More LOS blocking terrain from them would influence significantly what people bring to their games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorPenguin Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 19 minutes ago, Auticus said: I remember a day when building your own terrain was part and parcel of what we did. I even have the GW book on how to build your own terrain. It makes a part of my soul wither and die when I see that this art died long ago and people are dependent on terrain kits now. I'm sure rogue trader had some tutorial about converting toilet rolls into bunkers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderingrogue1 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 22 minutes ago, Auticus said: I remember a day when building your own terrain was part and parcel of what we did. I even have the GW book on how to build your own terrain. It makes a part of my soul wither and die when I see that this art died long ago and people are dependent on terrain kits now. you also saw a lot of horrible looking terrain. least its nice now. ...and isnt that what a large proportion of the community wants? nice looking games? so - you want nice looking battles - cos ****** the people that cant paint or wont paint but your not allowed to use nice terrain to help ofset it? seems some people have it in for others no matter what happens . odd. pretty sure there is a word for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunkhouseBuster Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 32 minutes ago, Jamie the Jasper said: This is a great observation. In the early days of AoS there was a lot of talk and broad agreement that the game works much better with lots of terrain, but it's rare that you ever see it implemented. The vast majority of the tables I see both at club and tournament level look exactly the same as they did in the WHFB days. Perhaps this is something that that should be raised again since all of the people who joined/rejoined the community with the arrival of the General's Handbook may not be aware of this and may have reinfused the scene with some of their old WHFB habits? At my local Fantasy tournaments, the TO always had the large terrain pieces on the board count as being "infinitely high" for purposes of line of sight (he did the same thing at 40K tournaments that he ran), with the exception for small walls. So if the terrain crossed the eye line of the models, then they couldn't see through/over it. No worrying about TLOS anymore, and it helps brings so much of the ridiculous shooting to heel. Makes me glad that I am sticking with narrative play for my Age of Sigmar experiences. 19 minutes ago, Auticus said: I remember a day when building your own terrain was part and parcel of what we did. I even have the GW book on how to build your own terrain. It makes a part of my soul wither and die when I see that this art died long ago and people are dependent on terrain kits now. I made a bunch of terrain for 40K back in the day. I still have a bunch of unfinished projects sitting around that I need to finish up. But yeah, it is a shame that terrain making is (seemingly) mostly done by wargamers who got into the hobby several years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I'm guessing the people who are here to discuss the SCGT winners probably aren't going to be as thrilled as some of us are about reveling in nostalgia for the days of building your own terrain! I've created a general terrain thread here for discussion about how terrain impacts play and the various ways in which it can be made/aquired: http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/9112-the-general-terrain-thread/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 ++ Mod Hat On ++ I've been trying to leave this thread alone as I don't want to be doing what could be considered as censorship but I need to say the following..... Play Nice Very simply, think about your comments because whilst you may not like the lists that came top of the SCGT, they are being used by people who enjoy playing Warhammer just as much as you. Put yourself in their shoes and think about what you have been saying? Are you being constructive or insulting? Painting Like playing nice comment above, are you being constructive or insulting? Some people do not enjoy painting or are capable of painting to a high standard, so it's not fair for you to be overtly critical about their painting just because it's not of a certain level. The event clearly states the level of painting required which I'm sure some of the things some of you have been discussing has met. The lists At the end of the day, the SCGT is a tournament and some people attending will want to be competitive and some people will not. Those who do want to be competitive will usually be playing against each other fairly quickly and will those who don't. If you don't like this idea and really don't like the lists, don't go to the tournament. As for complaining about the game allowing people to take such lists, I'm fairly sure GW are aware and have plans. Also does people using such lists effect you if your gaming group don't play like that I can honestly say I have been annoyed with some of the responses in this topic. The Grand Alliance Forum is all about linking people who love Warhammer together. We may not all agree about the same things and have different tastes, but we don't need to be jerks about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 4 hours ago, Auticus said: That you have to remove most of the game and build a certain way to combat a certain list is an example of something that needs adjusted in my opinion. Most of the 40k abominations can also be dealt with if you build a hard counter for them. Playing expensive paper/rock/scissors with plastic dolls where you are scissors praying to the tournament-gods that you draw paper is not something that I enjoy much. Shades and '-1 to hit' wizards are hardly considered hard counters to kunnin' ruk Being prepared for certain matchups such as heavy range, or alpha strike mortal wounds spam isn't exactly as straight forward as paper/rock/scissors. As with all things, hard counters risk getting hard countered. Soft counters mostly avoids getting hard countered at the cost of not hard countering. Don't bring a knife to a fight if you expect your opponent to show up in a tank. Poison his food, take his family hostage, frame him for crimes he did not commit, and make fun of his hair. But I digress. There is absolutely no need to rock/paper/scissor to compete with the top lists. Lists don't win games (though they help. Right tool for the job and all that) - Just be mentally prepared for whatever they can bring to the table that would kick your butt particularly hard - knowing your own weaknesses/achilles heel. The element of surprise is a valuable thing, and the moment they drop pure cheese on your lap, and you haven't the faintest clue how to deal with it, you've already lost. I'd agree with you if Age of Sigmar was all about tabling your opponent, but it is an objective game first and foremost, which means you can play smarter, not harder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 30 minutes ago, Mayple said: The element of surprise is a valuable thing, and the moment they drop pure cheese on your lap, and you haven't the faintest clue how to deal with it, you've already lost. I can't stress this enough. People need to become a little bit more original in their list composition. I think they would have more success if they were more original with an eye toward the meta and how these top tier lists play. I placed very well at Adepticon with a list full of Chaos Warriors and Marauders for this very reason. One thing you can always be certain of is that if you bring a netlist, most of your good players have already mentally played their game with you multiple times and know exactly how to respond to what you put down on the table. Surprise should never be underestimated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oppenheimer Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 3 hours ago, Auticus said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob P Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Mayple said: Shades and '-1 to hit' wizards are hardly considered hard counters to kunnin' ruk Being prepared for certain matchups such as heavy range, or alpha strike mortal wounds spam isn't exactly as straight forward as paper/rock/scissors. Snip! I'm more wondering if hard counter units to, say, Skyfires might sufficiently deter spamming a powerful unit. It may encourage taking a balanced force. Of course, it's all about the meta at very top end and, potentially, new releases and new strategies may regulate balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratatatata Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 As I did not go to the event I'll not dive into the particulars, except that it sure looked great on the stream! But I just got to say that @AlexHarrison's painting looks perfectly good so if that is considered "bad painting" the standard in english tournaments have to be pretty damn high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegfried VII Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Thomas Lyons said: I can't stress this enough. People need to become a little bit more original in their list composition. I think they would have more success if they were more original with an eye toward the meta and how these top tier lists play. I placed very well at Adepticon with a list full of Chaos Warriors and Marauders for this very reason. One thing you can always be certain of is that if you bring a netlist, most of your good players have already mentally played their game with you multiple times and know exactly how to respond to what you put down on the table. Surprise should never be underestimated. Agree 100% on this. And what better confirmation than the Seraphon player who came in the 4th place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Alec Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I got up to table 7 with my silly TK chariot list. Miracles can happen. And neither of my last 2 games were auto-losses for me. Loads of fun, didn't face too much bad stuff. There was a lot of certain factions though. Sylvaneth, Beastclaw monsters, Stormcast and Tzeench. Which should be a shock to nobody. These guys both look cool and play well, meaning that everyone is interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyMammoth Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 9 hours ago, TerrorPenguin said: I think part of the problem with LOS blocking scenery is that GW sells approximately one piece - the dreadfort tower thing (unless you want to invest £300 in the whole dreadfort). More LOS blocking terrain from them would influence significantly what people bring to their games. The statement "The GW kits are garbage for LOS blocking" is not accurate. The forests and the realmgates, for sure. The Ophidian Archway and the Numinous Occulum provide decent cover. You could stack Garden of Morr buildings together to create a good LoS blocker. I don't know how you might argue that a Chaos Dreadhold can't block LoS. 9 hours ago, Auticus said: I remember a day when building your own terrain was part and parcel of what we did. I even have the GW book on how to build your own terrain. It makes a part of my soul wither and die when I see that this art died long ago and people are dependent on terrain kits now. Is it even allowed at GW? I don't think it is. I think games are required to have GW scenery now. Building scenery is an awesome part of the hobby and lots of people do it, but there is simply a greater variety of scenery options for purchase now. 8th edition made scenery suck for the most part, now it has opened up with AoS, however when you look at what they offer now, and at stuff like tabletop-world, its hard not to want to buy the beautiful kits rather than try and make your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 13 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said: Is it even allowed at GW? I don't think it is. I think games are required to have GW scenery now. This event wasn't at Warhammer World. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyMammoth Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, Thomas Lyons said: This event wasn't at Warhammer World. Yeah my point is a lot of people do play at WW or GW and as such, they would not be motivated to make their own terrain because its probably not even allowed. The other factor is the available terrain is much better, so people bring that. Why bring some random rock outcropping made from foam when you can bring a beautifully detailed house from tabletop world or an Ophidian Archway? The gap between what you could make and buy is getting very big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galas Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 That argument can be used too for comission armys! Why bother painting your own models when you can pay others to do it for you?! I always say: Power to people for enjoying the hobby how they want and how they can. But I think that some behaviours should be encouraged. Building your own terrain, painting your own models, buildings your owns lists, is basically what makes this hobby... a hobby, and not just boardgames or videogames where you buy all prepared to put in the table and play. Those things encourage and require patience, imagination, and hard work, all good values not only to ourselves but to teach to young people that we can introduce to this hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louzi Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 Where can I find the army lists for the scgt 2017 (last year it was published) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chillpill Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 On 24/04/2017 at 2:55 AM, WoollyMammoth said: Yeah, best player made 30th. Very unfortunate. Hopefully Death gets some love soon. Was he the guy with the amazingly painted greenish death army? isabella van carstein, bloodknights etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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