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SCGT Rankings and top three lists


shinros

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8 minutes ago, kozokus said:

I fail to see what you are refering to, Can you enlighten me please? :/

Stormcast have a Lantern (aoe passive buff) and a Prayer which both force enemy pew pew to reroll sixes to hit - this really hurts Skyfires. Raptors with this buff (and exploding attacks Prayer for the sake of it) and command trait which is +1 save or real cover, should win the pew pew war vs Skyfires.

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Just now, Nico said:

Stormcast have a Lantern (aoe passive buff) and a Prayer which both force enemy pew pew to reroll sixes to hit - this really hurts Skyfires. Raptors with this buff (and exploding attacks Prayer for the sake of it) and command trait which is +1 save or real cover, should win the pew pew war vs Skyfires.

Thanks :) I had thoses ones in mind, but what does it has to do with the Hallowed Knight Bataillon? :o

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2 hours ago, Dan Heelan said:

Biggest surprise for me (if you believe what you read on the internet about Slyvaneth) was that they were nowhere for most of the event despite being massively represented.

I think the Tzeentch lists seem like a solid counter to Sylvaneth.

I found to interesting to walk down the rows during the final rounds and see almost waves of armies being represented heavily in sections. @Forestreveries said the same;

Tzeentch
Beastclaw + Kunnin Rukk
Sylvaneth
Stormcast

Hope that makes sense, it was definitely a thing! Obviously plenty of variety interspersed amongst them as well, but blocks of those armies almost finding their place was noticeable IMO.

Great weekend all in all :D 

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44 minutes ago, Cookiez said:

Once again, I agree with you, @Nico . Nerfing Skyfires to the ground is not a solution, the thing they need to address is the faction as a whole. And did they wreck face actually that hard? First list is Skyfire-heavy, ok, but it's the overall units strength that played well, not just them. And the second one used only 6, which is ok for me.

Yea that second list seems pretty tame and straightforward.  

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Something needs to be done about the paint requirements at these events. 

 

The winning army's paint job was completely unacceptable. It was not only a poor representation of the hobby as a whole it was borderline offensive to anyone that paid money to attend the event and put forth the effort to put together a proper Army.

To be fair this falls more on the tournament organizers than the individual.

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Agreed. I remember the hosts saying in podcasts that they will be making more of a effort to enforce good paint jobs.

That winning army was obscene, I normally am accepting of people's varying tastes, but that was obviously just painted asap to field filth. No attempt to make it look nice.

And if that's going to be allowed, then why even bother enforcing paint standards in the first place.

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5 minutes ago, Krieger said:

Something needs to be done about the paint requirements at these events. 

 

The winning army's paint job was completely unacceptable. It was not only a poor representation of the hobby as a whole it was borderline offensive to anyone that paid money to attend the event and put forth the effort to put together a proper Army.

To be fair this falls more on the tournament organizers than the individual.

You won't get any joy pressing home this point due to the subjective nature of 'unacceptable'. It's a hobby with an incredibly wide range of contributing factors, Some people like the painting, some the modelling. Others like the social aspect, other people like competitive edge, to build the best lists and smash the most face. They're all legitimate, and though I agree that quite a number of the top lists paint jobs were quite poor quality they were all painted and based appropriately. The rapid release cycle and power ramping of Aos don't feed that well into painting - that's obviously the aspect taking the most time. For those guys who want to win events in most cases it requires quickly reacting to releases and 'meta' shifts verging on 'pay to win' spammy type scenarios. There's nothing wrong with that either, you have to be comfortable with your own hobby and be realistic about your goals.

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I've seen far worse in terms of paint. Think people are quick to react about it because the list itself is filthy, and the player is winning with it. It's nice to see beautiful armies up at the top and everything, but not everyone can be everything  (I can't paint or play...)

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6 minutes ago, Rhellion said:

If it meets the minimum paint standards it is fine. That army met the standards. If you want to raise the bar on what the minimum is... that is up to the event organizer.

100% this. 

Ultimately, the 'hobby' is for everybody and for some people it's all about the painting and for others it's about the gaming. I think as long as the army meets the requirements for the event, it's fine.

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I watched a few games of the Twitch stream with a friend (who doesn't play) and her comment was that the painting on the armies on the fifth game were pretty dire.  I can see now how some TO's implement soft scoring to try and balance their tournaments out - if you want to win, you need to be a good general and put some effort into your army.

For me, it emphasises that Grand Tournaments are what I'd call "competitive gaming" at it's best.  Expect to see the latest cutting edge armies, optimised and designed to win.  I would say though that it doesn't make the best spectator sport when you see an army that on screen that, to be honest looks like it has had a few colours slapped on over a weekend*

2 minutes ago, Marc Wilson said:

The rapid release cycle and power ramping of Aos don't feed that well into painting - that's obviously the aspect taking the most time. For those guys who want to win events in most cases it requires quickly reacting to releases and 'meta' shifts verging on 'pay to win' spammy type scenarios.

I'd agree with this, but if you exclude Kharadron, everything else has been out long enough that it shouldn't have needed to be speed painted.  Tzeentch came out in February

 

* Disclaimer - I know not everybody can paint like Darren Latham, however with GW's paint system, Paint Splatter and of course Duncan tutorials (amongst others - we have lots of similar tutorials on here too), most people can should be able to paint an army to average table top standard.

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1 hour ago, Nico said:

Stormcast have a Lantern (aoe passive buff) and a Prayer which both force enemy pew pew to reroll sixes to hit - this really hurts Skyfires.

Does it really hurt them? Skyfires do their thing by using modifiers to hit, so that they can turn 4s into 6s. Rerolls happen before modifiers, so you will roll your 27 dice, reroll any 6s (say 5), at that point you have something like 6*1, 6*2, 5*3, 5*4 4*5, 1*6

You then apply your +2 to hit, giving you 6 misses, 11 hits and 10d3 mortal wounds.

Compared to if you dont reroll 6's when you get 5 misses, 10 hits, 13d3 mortal wounds, its certainly worse, but I wouldn't say "really hurt".

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Just now, Auticus said:

Bring back painting standards that contribute to your score like the old days.

You won't see paint jobs like that anymore I promise.

Depends on the event surely? Several are more discerning, like Blood & Glory for example, so people can take their pick. In SCGT's case it's a 200 player tournament so it's not really plausible. Plus everyone who went knew what they were signing up for - it's in black and white.

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32 minutes ago, Krieger said:

Something needs to be done about the paint requirements at these events. 

 

The winning army's paint job was completely unacceptable. It was not only a poor representation of the hobby as a whole it was borderline offensive to anyone that paid money to attend the event and put forth the effort to put together a proper Army.

To be fair this falls more on the tournament organizers than the individual.

Things can (and are) be done about that, for events that want to do that. What they do is add a painting score to your points total, so if your army isn't painted to a top standard, it will find it harder to win.

The organisers of SCGT have always been very clear that they want to keep painting and gaming aspects separate, and as long as the army is painted to the minimum standard then its fine. If you don't like that, then another event might be more appropriate, but this is Dan/Wayne/Russ' event, they run it how they want to, and have every right to do so!

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1 minute ago, AlexHarrison said:

If people want to paint my army for me im more than happy for you to do so. Ive been painting for years but I still can't get any better, sorry im not as good as you guys :( 

In my defence, they do look a lot better in real life than over a camera :)

This is exactly what I mean. It's easy for someone here to say "that looks terrible, he had time to paint it better".

 

There are different skill levels for different aspects of the hobby. Your gaming skills helped you win the event. Their painting skills didn't help them win the event, now did it?

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1 minute ago, Oppenheimer said:

I enjoy that all those photos are of Warscroll builder print outs and none are Azyr. Was that a requirement, can you not print Azyr or does the app just suck that much?

 

The app works fine, it allows you to export your list as a PDF for printing.

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21 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

I watched a few games of the Twitch stream with a friend (who doesn't play) and her comment was that the painting on the armies on the fifth game were pretty dire.

Nerd version of "Netflix and chill"? :x

I'm big into painting and have soft scores at my events (standard at Tomorrow Burns was great across the 54 players), however each event is free to score as they see fit. It's then down to the TO's to enforce this.

SCGT does actually have paint points and whilst the majority scored the cap of 30, there are a few 20's in there so they were policing it.

@AlexHarrison and @Average Joe both painted their armies in a short space of time to get them ready for the event. I'm sure both would admit they wanted to get strong lists on the table - which is cool and to be expected for SCGT. Whilst they won't be winning any awards for painting (which is alright, mine didn't either ;)) they did hit the minimum standard from what I saw. 

I had a good look around the tables and considering the number of entrants, I thought the overall standard was fine.

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5 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

Nerd version of "Netflix and chill"? :x

Lol, if only ;)  It was actually my ex as we were clearing out a load of joint clutter from the garage so I can free up space for more scenery!  Though she is a nerd/geek so comment would have been legit at one point :D

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