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1 minute ago, Percivael said:

Just out of interest, given that you only get one of each special weapon in a box, how are you doing your multiple hooks/volley guns? Bits companies will sell out fast. For me personally it is prohibitively expensive to buy additional boxes just for one bit! I've seen some people bootlegging stormfriend warpfire projectors using green stuff molds.

well you see, the enginriggers come with both volley guns and skyhooks... since I only plan on using the drill cannons they will go to the companies in order to fill out some special weapons, and I am planning on buying 3 boxes so I will have at least two squads filled that way. 

I have no clue what i'm doing for the thunderers... maybe I will buy a box of iron drakes and convert the guns into cannons or something depending on how big the models will be. if that works then all will be right with the world =D

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While shadow wars have taken over locally I have more thinking time than playing time. I am thinking my way into maybe giving these flying duardin a go.

I think I want to take this in a different direction to most of what I see on the thread, I want to emphasis their ability to gain optimal position on the table and defeat opponents in detail. For that I think I will go Barak Zilfin for the mobility buffs and even more so for their unique artefact.

So at 1000 points

Aether-khemist

Aether-khemist

Ironclad (Aetherspheric Endrine, cannon)

Arkanaut company (skyhooks)

Arkanaut company (skyhooks)

Endrinriggers (drill cannon and volley gun)

So what this can do is deploy in a single drop into the Aethersphere with everyone onboard the ironclad and then  in my hero phase appear anywhere on the table more than 9" from enemy models; disembark, buff and be perfectly positioned to shoot. That lets me concentrate fire where I want it and puts all those 12" range weapons in range of a target. The longer range weapons can try to pick off key enemy heroes - for which that +1 to hit is really valuable as those steam-punk duardin are great but can't always shoot straight. Maybe its the goggles. I do not have such large/powerful units for the khemists to buff as a foot-slogging gunline would but I get their rather decent shooting into range instead so I think that works out. Barak Zilfin still gives my ship some mobility buffs after the drop so this does not become semi-static after that initial moment of appearing out of nowhere.

The Ironclad is extra-durable with a 6+ save against mortal wounds and a little bit of reliable healing.

At higher points I would definitely want an Admiral for the guaranteed 6" run and shoot on the Ironclad but I think that is a luxury I can do without at 1000.

The biggest challenge will be bitz-hunting enough skyhooks.

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Hi guys :)


I m new to the forum and going to start a KO army this Saturday (whoop whoop).

 

I love fully painted army's but unfortunately I m not a very good or fast painter so I thought of what I could do with my KO and came up with an idea but I want some more opinions before I start the project :)


My plan was to paint the whole army with this technique:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/05/lotr-painting-army-of-the-dead.html
The theme would be some sort of Davy Jones/flying Dutchman/Grudge Ghost Dwarfs :)

What do you think?

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I've decided to wait until I have the book before working out my army. I really want to see what abilities Barak-Zon brings so I can decide between it & Mhornar.

Going by what I've seen, I suspect Zon may have an emphasis on combat, and hopefully some appropriate buffs. To that end, I am considering the following combo as a sort of linebreaker:

Ironclad

10x Arkonauts w/3 skyhooks

Aether-Khemist

Admiral or Endrinmaster

5 Thunderers w/fumigators

The idea is to get into a decent forward position, drop my units (hopefully I can find a way to use the Khemist's buff on the Thunderers, otherwise I'll just use the debuff initially), do some decent shooting damage (5D3 3+/2+/-1/1 shots should soften up most units), and then charge in with the company.

Will likely support the ironclad with a gunhauler to help it get there. Maybe also throw in some skywardens or endrinriggers for some extra punch. Could make for a fun, aggressive, core.

 

Edit: For the very definition of all eggs in one basket, I could drop the Admiral/Endrinmaster for another Arkonaut company (with more skyhooks), swap the fumigators for mortars on the Thunderers, and take 3 Endrinriggers. This would give me a legal 1,000 point list.

Deploy the Thunderers in backfield with the Khemist (general), & charge forward with the two companies in the ironclad, supported by the riggers. Could be fun.

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24 minutes ago, Volund said:

Getting the khemist buff onto Thunders should be no problem. You disembark in the hero phase and it explicitly says you can use hero phase abilities after you get out :)

Yeah, that's the easy part. The hard part is maneuvering into position & ensuring I can still disembark. I can't see this coming off in the first turn if I want the buff, unless there's some fancy redeploy/deep strike type shenanigans I'm not aware of. Still want to try it, though.

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13 hours ago, Acid_Nine said:

well you see, the enginriggers come with both volley guns and skyhooks... since I only plan on using the drill cannons they will go to the companies in order to fill out some special weapons, and I am planning on buying 3 boxes so I will have at least two squads filled that way. 

I have no clue what i'm doing for the thunderers... maybe I will buy a box of iron drakes and convert the guns into cannons or something depending on how big the models will be. if that works then all will be right with the world =D

I never thought of that! Lateral thinking. I like it!

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So, looking at various builds again, Barak-Ziflin seems to be able to provide a hard counter to the Tzeentch Disk Spamming list or even the 4 LOC lists.  Observe:

Here is their code.
Barak-Zilfin.png.0a2da78977c1aa33355ddda6a31a04a7.png

So, the list would look something like this: 

1 Ironclad (440) w/Aethersphereic Endrins
--20 Thunderers (400) w/20 Aethercannons
--4 Aether-Khemists (400)

30 Arkanaut Company w/9 Light Skyhooks (360)
10 Arkanaut Company w/3 Light Skyhooks (120)
10 Arkanaut Company 2/3 Light Skyhooks (120)
1 Aether-Khemist [General] w/Prospector to give battleshock immune to the Companies based on 1 terrain piece.

With 5 drops, you will out-drop any Tzeentch Skyfire list. You take first turn, at the top of 1, you drop the Ironclad out from the line and disembark all 24 models out of the ship. The 4 Khemists buff the Thunderers, so now you have 100 Aethercannon shots that are 12" range, 4+/2+/-2/d3, which should put the skyfires in range (who are often deployed behind a single line of chaff). Because you are Ziflin, you have reroll 1's of attack and wound against all fliers (so all disk riders, and all LOC).  

Of those 100 Aethercannon shots, 58 will land (with reroll 1s) and 56 should wound, with -2 rend and d3 damage. The rend removes the Skyfire's save, and you dish out 56d3 damage to the two sky fire units (average of 112 damage with no save). Two units of skyfires will have a max of 36 wounds each, so 72 will remove the two units. I've put enough flex in the Thunderer output that even with bad rolls both units will be killed.

The Lord of Changes have it a little bit better since they have a base 4+ save. The 56 wounds will be saved at 6+, so 46 of those wounds will get through on average, meaning that 4 LOC will take 92 damage on average, and those 4 models only have 56 wounds...so those turkeys are cooked.  

And now the Ironclad fires its big guns. It will likely try to pick off some 5 wound heroes like the Tzaangor shaman, which it might be able to kill. The Companies, who were deployed on the line move up 4" and shoot all the chaff off the table with 24 light skyhook shots (4+/3+/-2/d3), +1 to hit heroes and monsters, reroll 1s to hit and wound against fliers.

The reality is that the Tzeentch sky fire/4 bird list doesn't have many tools to defend against this type of alpha strike.  

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14 minutes ago, tokek said:

I agree that Barak-Zilfin looks like it has the right tools to deal with Skyfire spam lists.

Personally not so impressed with the limited range on the cannons but it might work out for you.

The alternative is obviously to run Mortars and just blow through the 5+ saves on skyfires by overwhelming power.  This way you don't have to drop anywhere near them, you just need to drop in LOS, which won't be hard.  

With Mortars, you would have 100 shots that are 36" range, 4+/3+/-/d3.  Because you are Ziflin, you have reroll 1's of attack and wound against all fliers (so all disk riders, and all LOC).  Of those 100 Mortat shots, 58 will land (with reroll 1s) and 43 should wound.  You'll lose another 33% to armor saves; 28 get through at d3 each (averaging 56 wounds), which is not enough to kill two units of Skyfires.  You would likely need to add more Khemists if you wanted to punch through the two sets of skyfires with Mortars.

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With Mortars, you would have 100 shots that are 36" range, 4+/3+/-/d3.  Because you are Ziflin, you have reroll 1's of attack and wound against all fliers (so all disk riders, and all LOC).  Of those 100 Mortat shots, 58 will land (with reroll 1s) and 43 should wound.  You'll lose another 33% to armor saves; 28 get through at d3 each (averaging 56 wounds), which is not enough to kill two units of Skyfires.  You would likely need to add more Khemists if you wanted to punch through the two sets of skyfires with Mortars.

On the one hand you've not included Battleshock - if you kill 7 models, even a Battleshock roll of 1 will kill the last 2 Skyfires!

On the other hand, I think you're underestimating the intelligence of the Skyfires players. They will not see a 400 point unit with 20 -2 rend cannons and an airship with a deepstrike ability and not think to ask the relevant questions (unless they are arrogant). If they set up well, then you'll not be in range. Perhaps a different weapon choice would work - you could just use the mid range weapon, or you could use Skywardens with 24"? cannons instead.

Oddly, it might be more efficient to drop in the Frigate - as it can carry infinite Skywardens (so it's inferior capacity doesn't matter) and it's deep striking in (so it's abysmal 5+ armour save doesn't matter either. 

The other concern is that whereas Skyfire Spam works very well against all lists that aren't crafted so as to counter it, this list is probably too one-dimensional to work well across a 5-6 game event. 

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5 minutes ago, Nico said:

On the one hand you've not included Battleshock - if you kill 7 models, even a Battleshock roll of 1 will kill the last 2 Skyfires!

On the other hand, I think you're underestimating the intelligence of the Skyfires players. They will not see a 400 point unit with 20 -2 rend cannons and an airship with a deepstrike ability and not think to ask the relevant questions (unless they are arrogant). If they set up well, then you'll not be in range. Perhaps a different weapon choice would work - you could just use the mid range weapon, or you could use Skywardens with 24"? cannons instead.

Oddly, it might be more efficient to drop in the Frigate - as it can carry infinite Skywardens (so it's inferior capacity doesn't matter) and it's deep striking in (so it's abysmal 5+ armour save doesn't matter either. 

The other concern is that whereas Skyfire Spam works very well against all lists that aren't crafted so as to counter it, this list is probably too one-dimensional to work well across a 5-6 game event. 

Possibly.  It is certainly 1 dimensional.  The Khemists can be balanced between the ship and the company, depending on how much of a threat you want to make that company.  The problem with the skywardens is that their special weapon selections don't lend themselves to khemist buffs since stacking those weapons is really hard.  This means that they are significantly less killy than buffed Thunderer teams, especially since 400 points nets you 12 wardens, only 4 of which have the weapon you want.

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My real concern with the cannons is that you will exterminate whatever is within 12" range but as you cannot land closer than 9" it is fairly easy to bubble-wrap up against 12" weapons so you will massively overkill screening units your opponent was willing to lose. The Khemists themselves have pretty nasty 12" range shooting, there comes a point where you have too much of it - the point at which anything you can touch within 12" range is dead and you still have more models to shoot :)

I like the alpha-strike (see my earlier post) I just think that doing it with almost nothing but 12" range weapons is too easy for a good player to defend against. One cannon and 4 torpedoes is not enough longer-range firepower reaching through the bubble-wrap for me to want to try this option.

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1 minute ago, tokek said:

My real concern with the cannons is that you will exterminate whatever is within 12" range but as you cannot land closer than 9" it is fairly easy to bubble-wrap up against 12" weapons so you will massively overkill screening units your opponent was willing to lose. The Khemists themselves have pretty nasty 12" range shooting, there comes a point where you have too much of it - the point at which anything you can touch within 12" range is dead and you still have more models to shoot :)

I like the alpha-strike (see my earlier post) I just think that doing it with almost nothing but 12" range weapons is too easy for a good player to defend against. One cannon and 4 torpedoes is not enough longer-range firepower reaching through the bubble-wrap for me to want to try this option.

You could always swap some for longer range weapons and have a mix within the thunderers, or even drop a Khemist or two for some Wardens to screen any potential charges.  Or, as said before, the light skyhooks have a 24" range and can press up as well.  This certainly isn't a perfect list, and I'm sure it could be perfected once we see some of the battalions and items :-)  But I felt like this is a good start :-)

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Yeah, I was also kind of thinking that corner deployment would probably be the best defense they had. Although really, i imagine you could just keep your ship hiding until turn 2 and the skyfires either have to come out and attack your companies or stay back and your comapnies will clear away the blocking chaff.

I am confused, 20 cannons and 24 skyhooks with -2 rend is "specific?" What situation other than nighthaunts ignoring all rend would be okay with having that appear on the back line? I agree with Mr. Lyons that it is one dimensional, but that is a pretty strong dimension that it has.

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11 minutes ago, Thomas Lyons said:

You could always swap some for longer range weapons and have a mix within the thunderers, or even drop a Khemist or two for some Wardens to screen any potential charges.  Or, as said before, the light skyhooks have a 24" range and can press up as well.  This certainly isn't a perfect list, and I'm sure it could be perfected once we see some of the battalions and items :-)  But I felt like this is a good start :-)

Agreed, as I said I think this is a good KO build concept and it happens to have all the right tools for dealing with Skyfire spam. I think we are in for one or two nice surprises with Artefacts etc (if the Bad Dice podcast is anything to go by) so more options may be apparent by the weekend.

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So... i have been thinking about the list I posted a page ago for my 2,000 points, and as I have thought my combos will seem very nasty with the batallion, combined with mhornar's abilities. 

Spoiler

Iron sky battalion

x2 Frigates with cannons

x3 arkanaught companies, two w/ hooks and one with volley guns

-

Admiral / Endrinmaster w/ opportunist trait

Khemist

x10 thunderers

x1 endrinrigger squad w/ no upgrades, only saws (may add drill cannon, i dunno)

total: 2000 points

so, strategy wise, deployment is almost everything will be in balloons, maybe get a skyhook company and the khemist out to buff shooting even more but the khemist is going right back into a balloon immediately afterwards.

Hero phase, the ironclad gives it's buffs to the fleet and maybe itself to increase the fleet's range and the frigates go slow in order to re-roll ones. Movement phase everything gets to run and shoot, so the fleet uses it's run moves to get into range and then shooting phase they unleash hell with the cannons and carbines shooting the hardest target to try and get a turn 1 kill, or blasting apart infantry in order to thin the ranks, while the ground company goes monster hunting. they should be able to hit too, as they have a some really great means of shooting that would hurt said targets quite a bit.

 turn 2 as the enemy approaches the rest of the army hop out of their balloons  and the chain of buffs happen as per usual, only this time when a hard target gets close you can pop the thunderers out and unleash hell versus one unit while the rest of the army chain shots together to take down another juicy target. the rest of the turns are the same with some much needed movement shenanigans and monster hunting, but I think the first two turns would make it, and we could usually kill a scary monster in those couple of turns.

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On 19/04/2017 at 7:57 PM, Percivael said:

Just out of interest, given that you only get one of each special weapon in a box, how are you doing your multiple hooks/volley guns? Bits companies will sell out fast. For me personally it is prohibitively expensive to buy additional boxes just for one bit! I've seen some people bootlegging stormfriend warpfire projectors using green stuff molds.

I intend to trade I only want pikes, and 1repeater for Company, and Decksweepers for Grundstok. I'm sure people will want the other weapons.

 

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