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Karchev23

Lets chat: Beastclaw Raiders

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Hi, I'm new to the forum and pretty new to AOS although I come from a whfb background all the way back to 4th edition. The last 2 to 3 years my group has switched to Bolt Action (awesome game) but with the talk of AOS not being complete rubbish, we decided to give it a go. 

In 8th edition of whfb i played empire and ogres and since I had some ogres that fit in BCR I decided on BCR for AOS. That and the fact that ogre models are insanely awesome looking!

I've got 12 MF cav and 3 beasts, a frostlord and a huskard on stonehorns. I have yet t build the 3rd one and was hoping you guys can give me some advice. Perhaps huskard on tusk or riders on tusk?

I've enjoyed reading this thread and felt I had something to add...

I've played about 8 games so for of AOS with my BCR and I have noticed other armies have better synnergy BUT if we play smart, we can win many a game.

I mostly play against nurgle and korn, both of which are really solid armies, and once against the orc cav list, and I have found the following:

1. The movement phase is where we win or lose the game.

2. we have on simple strategy, move fast and charge. Where you place your models is key when completing the charge!

3. Frost lord wearing a pelt on a stonehorn is an insane tank! one of the best imo.  

4. mournfang work well in units of 2 since your opponent is usually focused on the big beasts with spells shooting and combat.

5. capturing objectives is too hard. Table your opponent or lose (most of the time)

 

I have about a 50/50 win rate at the moment and found nurgle with their tricks the hardest opponent. 

 

Thanks and looking forward to advice 

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@Fundre definitely suggest building a huskard on tusk, the small healing boost he can bring plus the shooting is always needed.

taking frost sabres is good for running screens or flanking manoeuvres.

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Thanks @AthlorianStoners I will build my last monster as a Huskard on TT and get some sabres for my list.

I really don't like the official sabres models... can anyone recommend a good alternative?

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Fenrisrian wolves make for good looking minor beasts to count as sabres. Theyre fluid in movement and well sculpted and wolves fit the everwinter beast theme

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I just googled them and the do look awesome! Thanks @Melcavuk

Any recommendations on how many to own? they come in packs of 2 correct? In-game. Should one run several small packs or a few large ones?

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38 minutes ago, Fundre said:

I just googled them and the do look awesome! Thanks @Melcavuk

Any recommendations on how many to own? they come in packs of 2 correct? In-game. Should one run several small packs or a few large ones?

The wolves come in packs of five. If you want to run a large group of mournfang you could use the hunter as a general and make the wolves battleline. 

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7 hours ago, Fundre said:

Thanks @AthlorianStoners I will build my last monster as a Huskard on TT and get some sabres for my list.

I really don't like the official sabres models... can anyone recommend a good alternative?

A guy at my store uses the lion from the elfen chariot.

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Not sure if this has been asked before- is it worth getting any of the ogre kits to kitbash the beastclaw kits? Having 3 of exactly the same thundertusk/stonehorn riders doesn't appeal too much- could I swap out some bits with ogres at all? Or any other kits that kitbash well?

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1 hour ago, hughwyeth said:

Not sure if this has been asked before- is it worth getting any of the ogre kits to kitbash the beastclaw kits? Having 3 of exactly the same thundertusk/stonehorn riders doesn't appeal too much- could I swap out some bits with ogres at all? Or any other kits that kitbash well?

Fairly sure the arms and heads on pretty much all the ogor models are interchangeable, means you can play around with different weapon options, e.g gargent hackers on iron guts and vice versa. 

Edit: this is true with the plastic models at least. 

Also, cool conversions I thought of: Iron lock pistols from the mournfang box could make good chain traps (they have the same profile iirc) and leadbelcher guns as harpoon launchers, always found it funny how only mournfang leaders got firearms. 

Edited by Mincemeat
Forgot some stuff
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6 hours ago, Mincemeat said:

 leadbelcher guns as harpoon launchers

:D I think it works quite well

stonehorngeniusriders.png.b346e30647733729107bcb176e782af7.png

Edited by heywoah_twitch
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10 hours ago, heywoah_twitch said:

:D I think it works quite well

stonehorngeniusriders.png.b346e30647733729107bcb176e782af7.png

Nice! I was thinking of getting a box of leadbelchers and ogors when I build my force and see what works. 

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Love the leadbelcher idea for the beast riders!! I will be using it.

On another  note, do the beast riders get all three ranged weapons? The vulture, harpoon and chain? While the huskard can only pick one?

Statistically the vulture is the better option if you can only pick one right?

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Huskard chooses one of the three.

Beastriders choose vulture or chaintrap, and in addition always gets harpoon launcher. 

But it's as you say, blood vulture is def the best. 

Edited by heywoah_twitch
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Completely baseless 2.0 speculation (that isn't very unrealistic):

  • All BCR heroes get command abilities:
  1. Huskards get to apply a +1 to hit
  2. Hunters get something akin to Lord Aquilor, melding themselves and a unit of frost sabers away to another location on the board outside 9"
  • Huskard becomes a wizard with a hungry/cold spell thing
  • Thundertusks become buff loci (see idoneth turtles for instance) and lose their mw cannon (pls)
  • Points tweaks
  • Stonehorn nerfs reverted.

Discuss?

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1 hour ago, AthlorianStoners said:

So far all the proposed changes seemingly benefit BCR in a major way, at least the list i run. 

Not being able to TTusk out of combat seems like a pretty big nerf, BCR command abilities are really sparse, you won't benefit from the "Look out sir" on the important models, don't have wizards to use the persistent spells.

I'm struggling to see how it helps BCR, other than the ability to spend a CP on a failed charge?

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On 5/18/2018 at 12:33 PM, Turragor said:

Completely baseless 2.0 speculation (that isn't very unrealistic):

  • All BCR heroes get command abilities:
  1. Huskards get to apply a +1 to hit
  2. Hunters get something akin to Lord Aquilor, melding themselves and a unit of frost sabers away to another location on the board outside 9"
  • Huskard becomes a wizard with a hungry/cold spell thing
  • Thundertusks become buff loci (see idoneth turtles for instance) and lose their mw cannon (pls)
  • Points tweaks
  • Stonehorn nerfs reverted.

Discuss?

I think for some of those we'll just have to wait for a new battletome. Hopefully they unit ogres again, in a nagash style tome. (They should do this for a few other factions really, like skaven) 

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8 hours ago, AthlorianStoners said:

So far all the proposed changes seemingly benefit BCR in a major way, at least the list i run. 

I have the opposite opinion.

A massively overhauled and expanded magic phase doesn't look good for us since we have no wizards, much less spell lores. 

Command Ability expansion doesn't excite me since we have only one command ability in our army and it sucks.

No shooting out of combat nerf hurts thundertusks.

Our battalions are currently not worth taking (and samey), so extra command points are probably not something we can expect in optimal lists otherwise (as opposed to armies who already play with their great battalions and will now just get extra candy).

The rumored spending of command points to buy extra artefacts doesn't excite me since our artefacts are junk.

The Look Out, Sir rule excludes monsters and so thundertusks will still be easily and safely charted down to lame damage right away.

I'm actually struggling to think of a change that benefits us tbh (besides something that is mostly irrelevant like "can spend a die to rr charges since everyone can do that too). My excitement for the GHB and 2nd ed is my possibly ill-fated hope that we get totally re-written BCR faction rules (battletraits, command traits, artefacts, battalions), along with warscroll tweaks.

Edited by heywoah_twitch
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6 hours ago, Malakree said:

Not being able to TTusk out of combat seems like a pretty big nerf, BCR command abilities are really sparse, you won't benefit from the "Look out sir" on the important models, don't have wizards to use the persistent spells.

I'm struggling to see how it helps BCR, other than the ability to spend a CP on a failed charge?

Personally, I backline my Tusks and prefer to keep them out of combat for as long as possible. Considering this only really impacts one of our units negatively, whereas it impacts every other shooting unit in the same way, letting us have better control and ability to move I think it’s a positive. 

Command points are rumoured to work with artefacts, which is beneficial for us. There’s also fairly consistent rumours that units or armies without command abilities will see war scroll changes. 

The magic phase we haven’t seen yet, but I run a Troggoth Hag in my list anyways.

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1 minute ago, heywoah_twitch said:

A massively overhauled and expanded magic phase doesn't look good for us since we have no wizards, much less spell lores. 

Command Ability expansion doesn't excite me since we have only one command ability in our army and it sucks.

No shooting out of combat nerf hurts thundertusks.

Our battalions are currently not worth taking (and samey), so extra command points are probably not something we can expect in optimal lists otherwise (as opposed to armies who already play with their great battalions and will now just get extra candy).

The rumored spending of command points to buy extra artefacts doesn't excite me since our artefacts are junk.

The Look Out, Sir rule excludes monsters and so thundertusks will still be easily and safely charted down to lame damage right away.

I’ll wait till we see how the magic expansion works before commenting, but either way I run my list with a Hag. 

Theres been a lot of talk of warscroll changes so Command Abilities could be added. Failing that, Command Points only add things for us now anyway. Prior to this we would really not do much with command abilities. Now at least, we can store this unused points for more inspiring presence or charge rolls, buy more artefacts and I’m going to assume other resources.

thats only a minus to one of our units, albeit a strong one, but it means we can stop him from taking random wounds for longer as he won’t be able to get shot by units in combat. Overall I see this as a benefit as every other shooting unit will now also suffer this negative.

I can’t see most lists running more than one batallion, and the one extra Command Point generated isn’t really an issue when there’s other sources of CP. plus, i always take the Skal Batallion which I do feel is worth taking.

The Elixir and Pelt Of Charngar are great imo, while the others are all pretty good. The skull and blade of of all frost can be quite useful, the latter in particular can be very tactical. Regardless, there’s generic artefacts being introduced, so we will get help there. 

The rumoured (from LLV so it’s likely going to pan out) change of chargers going first is going to prove massively beneficial for us. Unseen warscroll changes and the magic phase expansion could all yield even more cool stuff. 

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Yeah, there's no point going crazy over changes when the whole game will be quite different and there's still so many missing pieces to see, we can only react to what we are shown. I was simply responding to just what has come out so far and why I wasn't thrilled.

We differ on what constitutes a great artefact I suppose. Like there's clearly ones that are the best among beastclaw choices, but considering artefacts as a whole they are weak. Even phoenix stone heals more than the pelt (by healing more often, especially on an opponent's double) and it's not exactly amazing itself. The pelt can heal more, but that's only 17% of the time per round.

I really hope that LLV spoiler is incorrect - my main grievance already is that the game is too polarizingly swingy, and whole-army t1 charges are much too easy to do, that going first with everyone on top of that is too good (and diminishes stuff like smashing and bashing).

 

That being said, I'd put a positive spin on the changes announced thusly:

Thundertusks might be shot less, as people may largely play less ranged units since it's more difficult to snipe.

Command Dice are awesome because they'll rewrite Bellowing Voice and give us more command abilities for our warscrolls.

People who took the plunge on the troggoth hag get a noticeable boost with the magic overhaul.

Ew, being positive is so alien and weird.

Edited by heywoah_twitch
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@heywoah_twitch No no I think you’ve misunderstood me on my first bit. Totally totally within your right to speculate on the magic thing, I just meant for myself I’m not gonna speak on it yet. 

Yeah I guess that’s fair. I don’t have much experience with many other factions artefacts. Flesh Eater Courts and Freeguild are my other armies and I’d say both of theirs are weaker than BCR. I enjoy using the BCR ones though and can find some uses for them. 

Personally, charges going first I think may be worse for a fair few armies (possibly the majority) but better for BCR. Strictly isolating it for us it’s better, but for the game as a whole it could be worse.

Hahaha positivity can be fun! In all seriousness, I don’t think we can face a worse drop off, and any signinficant changes could prove useful. 

I really really respect your opinion on BCR and the work you’ve done with your battle reports btw. You’ve stuck it out and made a ton of effort, arguably (and probably) being the front runner for discussion of the faction on this forum. Having a proper discussion with you is a ton of fun :) 

Edited by AthlorianStoners
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1 hour ago, AthlorianStoners said:

@heywoah_twitch No no I think you’ve misunderstood me on my first bit. Totally totally within your right to speculate on the magic thing, I just meant for myself I’m not gonna speak on it yet. 

Yeah I guess that’s fair. I don’t have much experience with many other factions artefacts. Flesh Eater Courts and Freeguild are my other armies and I’d say both of theirs are weaker than BCR. I enjoy using the BCR ones though and can find some uses for them. 

Personally, charges going first I think may be worse for a fair few armies (possibly the majority) but better for BCR. Strictly isolating it for us it’s better, but for the game as a whole it could be worse.

Hahaha positivity can be fun! In all seriousness, I don’t think we can face a worse drop off, and any signinficant changes could prove useful. 

I really really respect your opinion on BCR and the work you’ve done with your battle reports btw. You’ve stuck it out and made a ton of effort, arguably (and probably) being the front runner for discussion of the faction on this forum. Having a proper discussion with you is a ton of fun :) 

No, I got where you personally were coming from, I just didn't want to be mistaken for a 'sky is falling' person. While that sort of negative hysteria is common elsewhere, I sometimes find TGA overcompensates and insists that everything is awesome when it's not (current 2nd edition thread in the main forum notwithstanding, hoo boy).

You play three armies and by sheer bad luck two of them are the worst battletome armies in the game? My thoughts and prayers as we enter 2nd Ed 😂, I remember somewhere in my thread we had some FEC players come in and it could've become a pissing contest about who's army was worse, but we mostly just bonded in mutual sympathy.

While I don't always keep it positive, I do try to keep it fair, or at least explain myself. Thanks for the kind words. I've taken my commentary to youtube after a three part video explaining my experiences at Adepticon (my first one!) got a lot more views than I was anticipating. While I didn't play bcr there (as my goal was more wins than losses) I do have a video about them.

Check out my YouTube if you feel like it

I didn't start it out to make AoS content, but it's been surprisingly popular so here we are. This week I'll be on vince venturella's Warhammer Weekly as a guest.

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2 hours ago, heywoah_twitch said:

No, I got where you personally were coming from, I just didn't want to be mistaken for a 'sky is falling' person. While that sort of negative hysteria is common elsewhere, I sometimes find TGA overcompensates and insists that everything is awesome when it's not (current 2nd edition thread in the main forum notwithstanding, hoo boy).

You play three armies and by sheer bad luck two of them are the worst battletome armies in the game? My thoughts and prayers as we enter 2nd Ed 😂, I remember somewhere in my thread we had some FEC players come in and it could've become a pissing contest about who's army was worse, but we mostly just bonded in mutual sympathy.

While I don't always keep it positive, I do try to keep it fair, or at least explain myself. Thanks for the kind words. I've taken my commentary to youtube after a three part video explaining my experiences at Adepticon (my first one!) got a lot more views than I was anticipating. While I didn't play bcr there (as my goal was more wins than losses) I do have a video about them.

Check out my YouTube if you feel like it

I didn't start it out to make AoS content, but it's been surprisingly popular so here we are. This week I'll be on vince venturella's Warhammer Weekly as a guest.

Ahhhhh ok cool cool I see where you coming from, totally feel you. 

Haha it’s the luck of the draw I suppose. So strange those two also have the two best lore books imo. Surprisingly, if this whole summoning stuff changes for FEC like it did Nurgle/Slaanesh Etc, they could be really good. Ever shifting meta I guess. 

Oh awesome, I’ve actually been looking for quality AoS channels. Consider me subscribed! 

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8 hours ago, heywoah_twitch said:

No, I got where you personally were coming from, I just didn't want to be mistaken for a 'sky is falling' person. While that sort of negative hysteria is common elsewhere, I sometimes find TGA overcompensates and insists that everything is awesome when it's not (current 2nd edition thread in the main forum notwithstanding, hoo boy).

Following your posts and then channel I think I know what you mean.

I get this kind of vibe:

You like AoS for a bunch of reasons - including potential for competive gaming. However, you come from a more tightly built system, where competition is a more important framework. Maybe it's an entry via competition that then opens up into hobby (such as your really unique take on the mixed order list and your cool stormcast stuff)

Whereas myself (and perhaps a lot on the boards) come at this scene perhaps from the opposite entry path - "I can play competitive games with these awesome models? Cool!"

From there perhaps you - someone who knows how a properly built competitive tabletop experience should work - see a lot of silly and easily fixable design decisions that don't give you the confidence to look at AoS as a competitive game system (at least not one designed as such from the ground up). I mean you can't help but couch your opinions (even positive) in that light.

Then those of us in the latter camp are (usually) just happy if things sort of work or, like long-suffering spouses, are just numb to this.

I dunno!

I just know I like your content. It always feels balanced.

Edited by Turragor
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