Lets Chat Wanderers / Wood Elves compendium

[Tidings]

Alright, updated my list and played a test game with it in preparation for tomorrow's tournament. Here's the list:
 

Allegiance: Order
Celestial Battlemage on Celestial Hurricanum (380)
- General
- Trait: Tenacious 
Annoited on Frostheart Phoenix (260)
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone (lol)
Battlemage (100)
- Amber Wizard
Waywatcher Lord (100)
Waywatcher Lord (100)
Waywatcher Lord (100)

20 x Glade Guard (240)
10 x Waywatchers (160)
10 x Waywatchers (160)
5 x Liberators (100)
- Hammers and Shield
- 1x Grandhammer
5 x Liberators (100)
- Hammers and Shield
- 1x Grandhammer
10 x Sisters of Slaughter (140)
3 x Hunting Hounds (60)

Total: 2000/2000
Drops: 13

 

General goal of this list is to have as much synergy with the Hurricanum as possible, focus on ranged damage output, and multiple defensive units to hold objectives and protect archers. Dropping the expensive Kurnoths or Retributors was sad, but it allowed me to take two units instead of one. By going this route I have doubled the number of Waywatchers, and I have more models to screen my forces with. 

The Sisters of Slaughter were fantastic at holding a flank by themselves. I had them in cover, so they were reflecting mortal wounds on a successful 3+ save. O_O

Liberators were okay for throwing at objectives/guarding archers. They are the prime choice for Inspiring Presence - nothing else is really competing for that so that works well. The three Hunting Hounds might seem weird, but I found that three of them is just enough to fill a gap in my line, or rush to help at an objective. At a 12" move they are a very welcome fast unit. Until I get my Reavers ready to play, I'll try to have a few of these guys in my list when points allow, since I'm light on fast-movers.

I didn't really want to drop a Waywatcher Lord, but the Battlemage (Amber) worked fantastically well. Being near the Hurricanum he has a +1 to cast, and basically casts Mystic Shield every turn. I was getting the Phoenix to a 2+ save every turn, allowing him to easily survive a Mawcrusher charge like it was a squirt gun. The other awesome synergy with the Amber Mage is the turn I plan to use Arcane Bodkins, I cast his spell on the Glade Guard, giving them +1 to wound. That makes them a 2+/3+/-3 rend which is super scary.

All in all the list worked great. I'm debating shuffling some stuff around to take a 30" range unit. Kurnoths are good, but they are expensive. More likely to try and fit Longstrike Raptors in there - the bonus to hit will make them deal MW more often if I remember right. 

 

On another note, since I'm basically playing Mixed Order now, I can stop posting this kind of stuff in here if y'all want, since this is a Wanderer thread. I know I'm a bit off that topic lately. Just thought ya might be interested in seeing how our units synergize with stuff outside our army! The Amber Battlemage with GG is a particularly nice combo I stumbled upon I thought.

[Aezeal]

Don't want to burst your bubble.. but amber mage spell works in melee only, you can cast it on the GG.. but it won't do much to their shooting.

[Nico]

This is like that moment you tell someone that Hand of Glory only works on a single model....

[Yeled]

3 hours ago, Tidings said:

Alright, updated my list and played a test game with it in preparation for tomorrow's tournament. Here's the list:
 

Allegiance: Order
Celestial Battlemage on Celestial Hurricanum (380)
- General
- Trait: Tenacious 
Annoited on Frostheart Phoenix (260)
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone (lol)
Battlemage (100)
- Amber Wizard
Waywatcher Lord (100)
Waywatcher Lord (100)
Waywatcher Lord (100)

20 x Glade Guard (240)
10 x Waywatchers (160)
10 x Waywatchers (160)
5 x Liberators (100)
- Hammers and Shield
- 1x Grandhammer
5 x Liberators (100)
- Hammers and Shield
- 1x Grandhammer
10 x Sisters of Slaughter (140)
3 x Hunting Hounds (60)

Total: 2000/2000
Drops: 13

 

General goal of this list is to have as much synergy with the Hurricanum as possible, focus on ranged damage output, and multiple defensive units to hold objectives and protect archers. Dropping the expensive Kurnoths or Retributors was sad, but it allowed me to take two units instead of one. By going this route I have doubled the number of Waywatchers, and I have more models to screen my forces with. 

The Sisters of Slaughter were fantastic at holding a flank by themselves. I had them in cover, so they were reflecting mortal wounds on a successful 3+ save. O_O

Liberators were okay for throwing at objectives/guarding archers. They are the prime choice for Inspiring Presence - nothing else is really competing for that so that works well. The three Hunting Hounds might seem weird, but I found that three of them is just enough to fill a gap in my line, or rush to help at an objective. At a 12" move they are a very welcome fast unit. Until I get my Reavers ready to play, I'll try to have a few of these guys in my list when points allow, since I'm light on fast-movers.

I didn't really want to drop a Waywatcher Lord, but the Battlemage (Amber) worked fantastically well. Being near the Hurricanum he has a +1 to cast, and basically casts Mystic Shield every turn. I was getting the Phoenix to a 2+ save every turn, allowing him to easily survive a Mawcrusher charge like it was a squirt gun. The other awesome synergy with the Amber Mage is the turn I plan to use Arcane Bodkins, I cast his spell on the Glade Guard, giving them +1 to wound. That makes them a 2+/3+/-3 rend which is super scary.

All in all the list worked great. I'm debating shuffling some stuff around to take a 30" range unit. Kurnoths are good, but they are expensive. More likely to try and fit Longstrike Raptors in there - the bonus to hit will make them deal MW more often if I remember right. 

 

On another note, since I'm basically playing Mixed Order now, I can stop posting this kind of stuff in here if y'all want, since this is a Wanderer thread. I know I'm a bit off that topic lately. Just thought ya might be interested in seeing how our units synergize with stuff outside our army! The Amber Battlemage with GG is a particularly nice combo I stumbled upon I thought.

Interesting list. Yes, it's mixed order but from my perspective I want you to keep posting here. It's Wanderer-themed mixed order, and frankly your insight into why you feel forced to go that route in tournaments is extremely relevant to our discussion.

[Aezeal]

3 hours ago, Yeled said:

Interesting list. Yes, it's mixed order but from my perspective I want you to keep posting here. It's Wanderer-themed mixed order, and frankly your insight into why you feel forced to go that route in tournaments is extremely relevant to our discussion.

The thing is probably mainly the hurricanum which is just a force multiplier especially for shooting armies and most specific if there are on hit effects.  The waywatchers are ofc also slightly stronger than GG.

Most of the rest we could get in another way (though not all at the same time).

[Yeled]

Have people noticed that Wanderers are part of two Firestorm city factions? Check out the little blurbs when you click on each Firestorm faction on the main GW website.

[Aezeal]

29 minutes ago, Yeled said:

Have people noticed that Wanderers are part of two Firestorm city factions? Check out the little blurbs when you click on each Firestorm faction on the main GW website.

Hadn't seen.. but have now thx. So..Wanderers in the faction known for its cannons... Right. 

But wanderers sylvaneth interests me... The box even more tough I bet there will be useless stormcasts in there.

[Yeled]

42 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

Hadn't seen.. but have now thx. So..Wanderers in the faction known for its cannons... Right. 

But wanderers sylvaneth interests me... The box even more tough I bet there will be useless stormcasts in there.

They are only announcing Tempest's Eye, Hammerhal, and Anvil Guard tomorrow for pre-order. So not sure what will be in the Living City set.

[Pigey]

More interested in the little description and the rules it might bring : "Striking from the shadows, the armies of the Living City combine the Sylvaneth, Free People, Stormcast Eternals, Dispossessed and Wanderers into a stealthy vanguard from the Realm of Life". Truly excited now! This might be really good for the people who want to play Wanderers + Sylvaneth like in the old times

[Aezeal]

4 hours ago, Pigey said:

More interested in the little description and the rules it might bring : "Striking from the shadows, the armies of the Living City combine the Sylvaneth, Free People, Stormcast Eternals, Dispossessed and Wanderers into a stealthy vanguard from the Realm of Life". Truly excited now! This might be really good for the people who want to play Wanderers + Sylvaneth like in the old times

I fear it will be something like(too much) vanguard units, some GG and dryads (which are solid when STARTING either army... but I have 50-60 of both and that is enough for me).

If the ability is anything like the anvilguard one it might help. But I think the abilities might just be for the campaign (since the ork thing mentions stratagems just being for the campaign).

[Kelvarion]

Hi all!! my first time chatting in tga forums. I was reading about firestorm, we can have both alegiance abilities, wanderers+living city and it works with keywords, no troops. So, if we made a 2000k list pure Wanderers with 400 point of Sylvaneth, we can have both abilities. And it's not only for the campaing, its for matched plays too. My english is not very good so I dont now if I'm explaining well hihihi.  We can read it in warhammer community, seem quite interesenting.

[Aezeal]

3 minutes ago, Kelvarion said:

Hi all!! my first time chatting in tga forums. I was reading about firestorm, we can have both alegiance abilities, wanderers+living city and it works with keywords, no troops. So, if we made a 2000k list pure Wanderers with 400 point of Sylvaneth, we can have both abilities. And it's not only for the campaing, its for matched plays too. My english is not very good so I dont now if I'm explaining well hihihi.  We can read it in warhammer community, seem quite interesenting.

Sounds nice... But extra abilities without paying points... seems like the road to chaos to me (well at leady more imbalance in a game that is already too big for complete balance).

[WABBIT]

 

2 hours ago, Aezeal said:

If the ability is anything like the anvilguard one it might help. But I think the abilities might just be for the campaign (since the ork thing mentions stratagems just being for the campaign).

Is that the one where any model (Except monsters) within 3" of your units in the hero phase is dead unless it rolls a 5 or 6 and tries to move 6" away only to probably be caught in a trap and die anyway? I can't see it being part of the mainstream rules as tournaments will be flooded with Anvil guard armies. I thought they were campaign only? We have to see in the context of the rest of firestorm rules I guess but it's a worrying trend to release such OP rules. Getting smashed by or totally wrecking your opponent is NOT fun or cool. If both players used Anvil guard Each side will get one hero phase then the game is basically over LOL.  Are GW trolling us? lol If it is allowed in tournaments then good luck with that. If I had any thoughts on attending any it just went away for good with that rule LOL. Rules like that put people off playing this game. 

[Aezeal]

10 minutes ago, WABBIT said:

 

Is that the one where any model (Except monsters) within 1" of your units in the hero phase is dead unless it rolls a 5 or 6 and tries to move 6" away only to probably be caught in a trap and die anyway? I can't see it being part of the mainstream rules as tournaments will be flooded with Anvil guard armies. I thought they were campaign only? We have to see in the context of the rest of firestorm rules I guess but it's a worrying trend to release such OP rules. Getting smashed by or totally wrecking your opponent is NOT fun or cool. If both players used Anvil guard Each side will get one hero phase then the game is basically over LOL.  Are GW trolling us? lol If it is allowed in tournaments then good luck with that. If I had any thoughts on attending any it just went away for good with that rule LOL. Rules like that put people off playing this game. 

As I tried to say in the other topic you read that rule wrong (it's still strong and annoying but not as ridiculous as you interpret it). 

On a 1-4 nothing happens.

On a 5,6 you retreat and if you remain in 3 " you loose models.

[WABBIT]

26 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

As I tried to say in the other topic you read that rule wrong (it's still strong and annoying but not as ridiculous as you interpret it). 

On a 1-4 nothing happens.

On a 5,6 you retreat and if you remain in 3 " you loose models.

I don't think I read it wrong , perhaps you have misread it? I dont think its written clearly to support either interpretation. It does not say only apply the killing rule IF the enemy unit runs on a 5 or 6. It needs an FAQ already. (It kills models within 3" not 1" you are correct there so it's even more OP than I thought).

Note it does not say "1-4 Nothing Happens".

 

Also it means relatively weak looking humans can trample down huge Orruks, Ogres, Kurnoth Hunters etc..  is it me or does that just sounds silly? I cannot imagine 10 Guards and some gryph hounds to encircle the enemy units trampling monstrous Infantry and Cavalry to death just because of a special rule...

I do think (and hope) you are correct Aezel as it will reduce the power level of the ability drastically but it's still way too powerful. it's basically 33% chance to annihilate anything you're in combat with. You dont need elite troops to use this ability, just buy hundreds of cheap troops and some cavalry and every objective is yours.

[Yeled]

1 hour ago, WABBIT said:

I don't think I read it wrong , perhaps you have misread it? I dont think its written clearly to support either interpretation. It does not say only apply the killing rule IF the enemy unit runs on a 5 or 6. It needs an FAQ already. (It kills models within 3" not 1" you are correct there so it's even more OP than I thought).

Note it does not say "1-4 Nothing Happens".

 

Also it means relatively weak looking humans can trample down huge Orruks, Ogres, Kurnoth Hunters etc..  is it me or does that just sounds silly? I cannot imagine 10 Guards and some gryph hounds to encircle the enemy units trampling monstrous Infantry and Cavalry to death just because of a special rule...

I do think (and hope) you are correct Aezel as it will reduce the power level of the ability drastically but it's still way too powerful. it's basically 33% chance to annihilate anything you're in combat with. You dont need elite troops to use this ability, just buy hundreds of cheap troops and some cavalry and every objective is yours.

I'm not sure how you and @Aezeal are interpreting it, but I think it's fairly clear that:

1. In the Anvilgard player's hero phase, roll a die for each enemy unit within 1" of an anvilgard unit.
2. On a 5+, that particular enemy unit must make 6" move.
3. After the move, any models from that unit that already rolled 5+ and moved that remain within 3" of any anvilgard unit are slain.

This means that on a 1-4 nothing happens. The key is the wording "after this move is completed" and "enemy models (except monsters) from that unit." Since the rule does not mention any other units are affected, the killing of models only affects models from units that roll a 5+

[WABBIT]

Yeah I think that's right I just don't think it's clear enough and it's still OP.

[awcamawn]

The Living City ability has been revealed - "Hidden in the Shadows: Set units from this allegiance up in reserves, set them up within 3″ of a Sylvaneth Wyldwood or the edge of a battlefield."

So for a Wanderer allegiance army this means we can null deploy always without Waystone Pathfinders and can also Wyldwood deploy if we can somehow get them on the battlefield. Could be really cool in a narrative game to set some Wyldwoods on the battlefield for a thematic Wanderer ambush scenario. Also a Wanderer/Sylvaneth force could then use Wyldwoods more like a normal full Sylvaneth allegiance army than before, except you wouldn't get a free Wyldwood and half your army would be vulnerable to them...

Also Wanderers can be part of Greywater Fastness armies but Wanderer Allegiance won't benefit as it allows a chance of hero phase shooting by a warmachine only.

Hammerhal allegiance is pretty interesting though as extra bravery is always good, especially for units like wardancers, waywatchers, and sisters of the watch that don't have banners (Hammerhal is apparently "Any Order faction units apart from Seraphon" so hopefully your mixed order armies with Wanderer and "aelf" units have a allegiance again, sort of!)

[Yeled]

Nevermind. Ninja'd by @awcamawn.

[Axter]

2 hours ago, awcamawn said:

The Living City ability has been revealed - "Hidden in the Shadows: Set units from this allegiance up in reserves, set them up within 3″ of a Sylvaneth Wyldwood or the edge of a battlefield."

Where did you find this?

[Aezeal]

6 hours ago, WABBIT said:

Yeah I think that's right I just don't think it's clear enough and it's still OP.

It is OP, not for the killing power but for a decent chance of clearing objectives without actually doing anything.

7 hours ago, Yeled said:

I'm not sure how you and @Aezeal are interpreting it

It's pretty clear how I interpreted it

7 hours ago, Yeled said:

This means that on a 1-4 nothing happens.

Because I said that too

2 hours ago, awcamawn said:

The Living City ability has been revealed - "Hidden in the Shadows: Set units from this allegiance up in reserves, set them up within 3″ of a Sylvaneth Wyldwood or the edge of a battlefield."

So... this does not much for sylvaneth allegiance armies really. And wanderers already have options to deploy from table edges... and can't easily put wyldwoods on the table without investing 300 points in a TLA and rolling a 4+ (and the TLA won't be able to use command ability or a sylvaneth spell.. and his own spell won't be that effective either because he won't start with a tactically placed wood either).

Doesn't seem to be in the same league as other abilities.

 

2 hours ago, awcamawn said:

Also Wanderers can be part of Greywater Fastness armies but Wanderer Allegiance won't benefit as it allows a chance of hero phase shooting by a warmachine only.

No idea what wanders do in that city.. pick out the  best trees for the furnaces? It's like treebeard working with Saruman if you ask me.. but who am I?

[WABBIT]

10 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

 

So... this does not much for sylvaneth allegiance armies really. And wanderers already have options to deploy from table edges... and can't easily put wyldwoods on the table without investing 300 points in a TLA and rolling a 4+ (and the TLA won't be able to use command ability or a sylvaneth spell.. and his own spell won't be that effective either because he won't start with a tactically placed wood either).

Doesn't seem to be in the same league as other abilities.

No idea what wanders do in that city.. pick out the  best trees for the furnaces? It's like treebeard working with Saruman if you ask me.. but who am I?

I agree, nothing new or exciting for wanderers or sylvaneth in Firestorm as they can already do what Living city does. It's only good for non Wanderers and Sylvaneth armies who want their abilities of movement. Shame no point in using it unless you want Storm cast and free guild in your army. There's too many disappointing changes and rules this year for the armies I collect (Wood/High Aelves and Sylvaneth) it's starting to get me down. Better to write our own stuff than the ****** coming out of GW at the moment. I'll take Yeled's great hard work on the Living wishlist thread and see if my mates will let me use that :D. The is answer will probably be "yes as long as you don't win with it too often"  

Wanderers being in cities? Well I don't think they are wood elves anymore. They are more like Gypsies. they just move around alot and have nothing to do with nature of woodlands specifically. If you look at the models we are left with they look more like lightweight High Born now. Still very nice models but not earthy enough anymore, GW seem to have another direction for them.

[Yeled]

2 hours ago, WABBIT said:

I'll take Yeled's great hard work on the Living wishlist thread and see if my mates will let me use that :D. The is answer will probably be "yes as long as you don't win with it too often"

Thanks for the compliment. I'm glad you're enjoying the wishlist thread. I have to say after working on it for a while I want to use it, too. I probably won't ask my group as it will open a can of worms and nothing is really balanced or anything, but it does make me a little sad to use our Wanderer models after having spent so much time finding their flaws and looking for solutions to make them play "right."  

 

2 hours ago, WABBIT said:

Wanderers being in cities? Well I don't think they are wood elves anymore. They are more like Gypsies. they just move around alot and have nothing to do with nature of woodlands specifically. If you look at the models we are left with they look more like lightweight High Born now. Still very nice models but not earthy enough anymore, GW seem to have another direction for them.

I think you're right, though I'm not sure not being Wood Elves is a terrible thing. That said, I hope they aren't Gypsies, either. Honestly I'm not sure what they, or any of the legacy aelf factions, are at this point.

There was a comment made by @Aryann in the Aelves - Where do they go next? thread that (to paraphrase) aelves should be something new and exciting and different in AoS. I think that's fair. Aryann was specifically addressing any new aelf factions that might come along, but I think it could also be true of legacy factions.  Why leave them behind in the old world? Why not expand them to be something new and different? It wouldn't take much to make the Wanderers into something new and exciting. They don't have to be wood elves. They could be something resembling them, but evolved the way Kharadron are evolved from Dispossessed. All it would take is a new Battletome and some new models that build off the current aesthetic.

For me, I would love it if, rather than wood elves in the Tolkien tradition, they drew much more inspiration from legends of the fey/fae but thrown into a dark fantasy setting.  A people from the hidden, magical places of the world that move along laylines and dwell among faeries and other dangerous creatures of the wild places. They would be like a dangerous flower, beautiful to look at but covered in thorns tipped with poison that will put you to sleep for 100 years. They could be natural but inhuman,  prone to tricks and glamours, leading people astray, etc. They'd have no compunctions about killing those who threaten their people...in fact death and hurting others would almost be meaningless to them. Their spellweavers can bring them back to life, after all. Perhaps they never truly die. They have a different moral code than humankind or other aelves, if they have one at all. They'd be less focused on protecting trees (let the Sylvaneth have that) and more focused on the world of dreams and faeries and beasts and glamours and magic. They could live in the deep forests, but other terrain types could also be comfortable to them. Its more about dreaming and magic living outside of civilization.

Aesthetically, the Wild Riders would be an excellent place to start for them. Other models they have would be fine, as nobility among their people might lead to the high born aesthetic, but new models could draw on the antler and mask aesthetic. Maybe reintroduce wardancers but make them more wild. Give them wolf riders and strange magic and beasts out of fairy tales. 

 

[Tidings]

15 hours ago, Kelvarion said:

Hi all!! my first time chatting in tga forums. I was reading about firestorm, we can have both alegiance abilities, wanderers+living city and it works with keywords, no troops. So, if we made a 2000k list pure Wanderers with 400 point of Sylvaneth, we can have both abilities. And it's not only for the campaing, its for matched plays too. My english is not very good so I dont now if I'm explaining well hihihi.  We can read it in warhammer community, seem quite interesenting.

Just wanted to say WELCOME! We all love Wood Elves / Wanderers here even if we are a bit grumpy at GW's apparent lack of love.

[Pigey]

12 hours ago, awcamawn said:

The Living City ability has been revealed - "Hidden in the Shadows: Set units from this allegiance up in reserves, set them up within 3″ of a Sylvaneth Wyldwood or the edge of a battlefield."

So for a Wanderer allegiance army this means we can null deploy always without Waystone Pathfinders and can also Wyldwood deploy if we can somehow get them on the battlefield. Could be really cool in a narrative game to set some Wyldwoods on the battlefield for a thematic Wanderer ambush scenario. Also a Wanderer/Sylvaneth force could then use Wyldwoods more like a normal full Sylvaneth allegiance army than before, except you wouldn't get a free Wyldwood and half your army would be vulnerable to them...

Also Wanderers can be part of Greywater Fastness armies but Wanderer Allegiance won't benefit as it allows a chance of hero phase shooting by a warmachine only.

Hammerhal allegiance is pretty interesting though as extra bravery is always good, especially for units like wardancers, waywatchers, and sisters of the watch that don't have banners (Hammerhal is apparently "Any Order faction units apart from Seraphon" so hopefully your mixed order armies with Wanderer and "aelf" units have a allegiance again, sort of!)

I like that. Having the possibility to always have first urn... That is nice. I might think of an Order list with Sylvaneth and Wanderers using these rules. We'll see