Incoming Ironjawz player, question thread

[Soul oWar]

Hey guys, decided to finally joined to bite the bullet and join the warhammer gaming world. Bloobbowl got me into it 2-3 weeks ago and doing my first introduction game thursday for Age of Sigmar. 

 

There was a flash sale thuesday on eBay and got a start collecting ironjaws with the 15$ rebate. My next purchase will be for a megaboss and another start collecting I believe.

 

First question, how do Ironjawz fare vs shooter list the only game I watched at my LGS was dwarf vs Tzeentch and shooting seemed to be a big deal.

 

Second question, I'm new to Games Workshop, always stayed clear of the steep cost of models (was slowly building a 40k orks army on the side, slow is the word) and never really understoood their pricing scheme. So my question right now is, has anyone converted Ardboys to Brutes? I really don't understand how 15 ardboys is 32 and 15 brutes 90... I know Games-Workshop is the top dog and feels like it has a monopoly on wargaming but really? Anyway off topic, I haven't seen the sprues or ardboys and brutes yet but was wondering if it could be made in an OK conversion and if any project was attempted on that regard?

 

Thanks

PS: I will try to keep all my question to this thread so not to clutter the board.

[fez_the_druid]

Welcome to AoS!  Also a recent Ironjawz player so here's my 2 cents!

 

1. Ironjawz with the Ironfist plus destruction allegiance abilities are moving 2d6+2" in the hero phase for each unit in the Ironfist within 6" of a hero, then infantry moves 4", gore gruntas 9", then ardboys get a 2d6+2"(Drummer) charge.  On averages this is 9 + 4 + 9 = 22" on average, the gore gruntas go 9 + 9 + 7 = 25".  Normally the enemy frontlines will be 24" away so even on average, you'll make it as shooting is limited to around 20" in most armies.  Ironjawz do fine in the first turn, but they die hard to ranged mortal wounds (looking at you Clan Skryre).  Considering the whole army has 4+ saves, normally, half of the saves will pass against non-rending/non-mortal wounds.
2. Ardboys are on 32mm bases, Brutes are on 40mm bases.  Converting is difficult as the brutes as models are much bulkier.  I don't pretend to agree or understand GWs pricing model but without significant bulking up, ardboys converted to brutes would look like ardboys on bigger bases.

Personally, I don't do pure Ironjaws as Age of Sigmar is so focussed around objectives.  I have 2 blocks of 20 grots which hold objectives for me...

[Thain]

GW's pricing model basically boils down to "charge more for the things people will buy less of" balanced against "charge less for the things it costs us less to make."

To address that second bit first: GW has long used very basic "push fit" minis in its starter sets, basic paint sets, boxed games, and such. Due to the sheer quantity they make for those purposes, they can easily box them up separately and sell them cheaply. Economy of scale and all. Hence, the ubiquitous "Space Marine With Boltgun" of WH40k and the new "Liberator With Hammer" of AOS.

As for the last bit, GW realizes most people are only ever going to buy one "centerpiece" model per army and only a few "heroes." No Death player really needs more than one Nagash. Most Space Marine players only need one chaplain, one tech-marine, one captain... So the buyer is willing to pay a bit more (perceived value), they cost a bit more to make (economy of scale), there is a lower demand and there is a smaller supply. Result? Higher prices.

Ironjawz are interesting in that, except for the big centerpiece Maw-Krusha, most of our stuff all costs about the same. All our heroes cost about $30 USD retail. All our units cost approximately $50 USD retail for three Gruntas, five Brutes, or fifteen Ardboyz. (But the Ardboyz are a much older kit. Citadel has long since recovered their capital costs there, so we get a bonus. I suspect any future redesigned kit will be $50 for ten.)

[Soul oWar]

Thanks!

 

What rulebook do I need to buy, just teh ironjawz or do I need the destruction and general rulebook? (getting my tt introduction tomorrow afternoon)

[Warboss Gorbolg]

You actually don't need to buy any books.  The warscrolls and rules are free and if you're sticking to pure Ironjawz, you can memorize the points in no time at all.  That said, I enjoy having both the Ironjawz battletome and the General's Handbook.  I would also recommend the Ironjawz painting guide that is very inexpensive and a great deal.

GW has already previewed the General's Hbook 2, so personally I would hold off buying that one at this stage.

[Thain]

If you have a smartphone or tablet, download the Age of Sigmar app. It's got a complete copy of the base rules and the warscroll for every* unit in the game. 

Actual hardcopy books are available, but not strictly necessary. If you do choose buy them, then Battletome: Ironjawz should be your first pick. If you see a lot of Matched Play or tourneys in your future, then you'll want The General's Handbook... But a revised version is confirmed to be coming soon. So maybe delay on that purchase. The book for the Destruction Grand Alliance doesn't offer anything you won't find on the app for free... But it doesn't require batteries. 

 

* Well, nearly so. But seeing as you're a newbie and not an old greybearded (literally) grognard (also literally) like me, you won't really know what you're missing.

[Soul oWar]

Thanks guys!

 

Ok so if I aim for my first 1k comp to be something in the line of this: (2 start collecting and a megaboss)

 

Allegiance: Destruction

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: Battle Brew
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Talisman of Protection

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (360)
- Pig Iron Choppas

Battalions
Ironfist (60)

Total: 1000/1000

[Thain]

You might experiment running the Gruntas as two units of three. This way you could run one up each flank, run both up one flank but engage separate targets, or keep one behind your Ardboyz line as a counter-puncher while the other goes off elsewhere.

 

[Solaris]

I would start out with two boxes of Brutes instead of the second Start Collecting box. That would give you a better rounded initial force.

[Soul oWar]

So the idea was thrown yesterday and we will be doing an evolutive league, start 500 points.

 

Would it be good to do a simple megaboss and 2 brutes 500 points team? (that would be my next buy to go with the start collecting)

 

Thanks

[Jgroover]

That seems like a good next step. Might want a few more wounds at that level though, maybe Warboss, Ardboyz, Brutes? If you are going to buy 2 boxes of brutes and a warboss, look on ebay for a Thunderfist Battleforce box. Has Warboss, Shaman, 10 Brutes, Goregruntas, and a Giant and can be found for about the same price.

[Soul oWar]

Thanks for the tips, posted that I was looking for a box of thunderfist on a few forums and met a guy that is shipping of all is ironjawz, so trying to stuck a deal with him.

 

The question I would ask now because with this possibility I might be aiming at buying a large lot of ironjawz.

 

WHat would be an ideal setup for you guys to be able to have liberty at 2000 pts to build what you want.

From the list I have seen I would guess that this kind of pool of figurine is enough, am I missing on something or putting too much of one type?

1 Maw Krusha

3 mega boss

3 warchanter

1 shaman

9 gore gruntas

40 ardboys

20 brutes

 

Thanks

[Thain]

I'm building my collection. towards the following 2,000 Point Army as my "end game," for lack of a better descriptor:

Megaboss on Mawkrusha 520
Megaboss                            140
Shaman                                120
Warchanter                            80
Ardboyz (x20) [2 Units]      360
Brutes (x20) [4 Units]         720
Ironfist Battalion                    60
TOTAL                                 2000

To get there, it seems prudent to buy two Start Collecting boxed sets, which will leave me with a "bonus" Warchanter and two units of Gore-Gruntas... Either to play around with when I get bored with this list, to add in when I get a chance to play bigger games, or whatever.

[Soul oWar]

Thanks just made my first buy, Maw Krusha, shaman, start collecting & brutes. Need a mega boss and a few more brutes and i should be set.

[Thain]

Welcome to da Waaagh! 

May your fingers remain unglued, may your dice always stay on the table, and may you never run out of green wash in the middle of a painting project.

Now, go krump some 'ummies.

[Soul oWar]

Played my first 2 games this afternoon, had a lot of fun at 2k pts, cabbage is fun, never got an offensive spell from my shaman to fire, 10brutes is strong can't wait to try a pack of 15.

 

Not worth battle rep, I was getting my feet wet but won both of them, one va Tzeentch, the comet scenario, was ver lucky on teh placement of the comet and had won by turn 4 because of points difference.

Second was vs Khorne, playing vs another new player and old friend, it was is first game and I had to teach, helped me a lot get a grasp of teh rules. It was a blood bath, my brutes and megaboss did their job while cabbage got tar pitted, but never got wounded.

 

In the process of assembling all my models, painting my Bloodbowl orc team (testing color scheme for my IJ at the same time.) And can't wait to try Armageddon...

 

[Soul oWar]

Gonna play another 2 games this afternoon, gonna try another build to see how it goes.

 

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (520)
- General
- Trait: Bellowing Tyrant
- Artefact: Talisman of Protection
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: Battle Brew
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline
9 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (540)
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
- 2x Gore Choppa
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)

Battalions
Ironfist (60)

Total: 2000/2000
 

[Chris Tomlin]

Hi there @Soul oWar,

Welcome to the forum and Ironjawz in general. Whilst our options are more limited than some of the other armies out there, I can guarantee you'll have an awesome time with some of the best GW sculpts out there (honestly, once you've got Brutes and Ardboys in your hands, you won't worry about the price difference!).

You will find this forum to be full of helpful people, willing to offer advice. We have some very experienced Ironjawz generals here and a wealth of information to share.

Looks like your questions thus far have been dealt with pretty well. I'll dig you up some older threads that are worth reading when I get a chance (@Ben - it would be super helpful for newcomers if I had the facility to sticky a few key posts here).

For now, I'll share a couple of links to some podcasts I did which may be of interest to you (If podcasts are your thing!).

This first one has a very rudimentary overview of the Warscrolls and to be honest I think some of my opinions may have changed since recording this. I will wait until General's Handbook 2 before doing another show like this though. Still, it's worth a listen;

This next one features @Sangfroid and has some really interesting discussion, including talks on how we came around to some of the list builds we both took to the UK Masters in January;

Hopefully you enjoy these and find them useful. Good luck in your games and I look forward to seeing some painted models!

Chris

[Soul oWar]

Thanks will listen to that.

 

Unit of Gore gruntas suck, used as tar pit they can have some use, but not a strong unit. How many would you keep on hand for 2000 list? 2 unit of 3 for some use, more than that and wasted right?

Currently aiming my army toward those quantity:
1x Maw-Krusha
2x Megaboss (one is magnetized from the maw Krusha)
2x Warchanter
1x Shaman
30x Ardboyz
25x Brutes
6 Gore-Gruntas

I think with those quantity any list can be done from 500 to 2k, unless there is some strange build at 1500?

How do we play vs Tzeentch @ 2k pts? Those arecher disk that shout D3 Mortal Wounds are just a pain and can't be easily distpatched... Unless I'm missing something (only played 4 games vs 2 list to dates)

[Sangfroid]

The goregruntas are not as bad as they would first appear but the real issue with them is they are overcosted sadly. I've used them in 3 and 6 and both have their place but be clear they are not the heavy lifters of the army at all. 

Speaking of Tzangor skyfires 3 goregruntas with a choppas and a Warchanter buff should (on average) kill two of these in a round of combat. With a 9" move + 2" + 2D6 (Ironfist and destruction move) should leave you a 6" charge if they are at max range (24"). It's a lot of average dice (if only you could have that all the time eh?) but if you have 2 x 3 then you have a good chance of getting in! 

I suspect the sky fire are gonna be shooting brutes or characters anyway so the Pigs can usually get in unscathed. 

This leads me on to a really important consideration with Ironjawz in the current meta (and GHB 1 points assignment) they are not well pointed for a few units (mawcrusha, pigs, shaman, too expensive) and because they have no ranged attacks you will find yourself on occasion up against some really hard to deal with armies, with the only real option often to just play the percentages and hope for the best. Me and @Chris Tomlin talk about in that show how a game is sometimes decided on if you push forward and get the double turn.  When it goes your way it can be exhilaratingly awesome as Da ladz smash thru the enemy, it can however go the other way, you lose the prio and get destroyed and not really get to do much at all. 

The key is too not let this get you down, it's a part of how the army works and embracing that will improve your game experiences. Also with GHB2 now only 3-5 months away and the treatment BCR, Sylvaneth, Tzeetch, SCE and now Khorne have all gotten I'm confident GW is gonna pull it out the bag for us (Fingers, legs, eyes crossed :-) 

[Soul oWar]

Yeah I'm not down, or sad of the state of the army. I find it powerful I just need a better managemenet of my points. Like I said I'm real new to the army and wargaming. Vs teh tzeencht I wanted to close in fast to start chipping at it's power. I ended up splitting my army in half. Wasting 6 goregruntas and the maw on the first turn, while the megaboss could not follow the brutes to but in the 5inch range. And I didn't double turn so, got ripped a new one before engaging with all my army.

 

Not sure if it's how I'm deploying or how see the begining of the game that was the problem, but I ccertainly need to get more games under my belt for experience sake.

 

I don't have the GHB or the Alliance dstruction book, just teh ironjawz one. where does that 2 inch comes from in your calculation of charge/distance?

 

Thanks

[Sangfroid]

Generals handbook destruction allegiance traits in the matched play section, might be worth a look at at your local store really changes the 4 factions! 

[Soul oWar]

I just thoughts it was a d6, didn't think it was 2"+d6 or is that something else (I was using 2d6 for the battalion and d6 for the "heroes")

 

[domus]

I use 2 x 3 Gore Gruntas a lot.  They either turn 1 charge weak units or serve as a defensive screen for my 15 man Brute star. 

Great tanky units with decent armor and lots of wounds.  Dmg output is weak though IMHO for the points.

[Dramis4]

Question about destruction. I watched a game the other day, and a unit of 6 goregruntas charged a small unit of justicars, killed them, then got to make a d6" charge, in the same turn. He said it was a destruction rule, but I can't find it. Any help?