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how do you deal with Mornghuls?

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hey all!

 

as suggested Im having trouble with Mornghuls, I have Stormcast and Fireslayers...

 

i frequently come across this beastie almost everywhere, one oppoent even takes 2 with Nefferata...... with all those - to hit penalties you cant even hit them beasts, let alone hurt them as they ignore rend and reliably can ignore mortal wounds.....

 

I consider myslef a competant player, but these monsters seem to tear a hole through my forces every game, most of the time, with no damage done back....

 

how do you deal with these monsters? or are they simply 'too' good?

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Ranged attacks ?.  Throw some liberators in front to bog them down and then use ranged attacks?

I've run into a few and they are hard to deal with.

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your liberators can bog it down? ive found 5 just die, and 10..... well just die a round later, i do have judicators, but they are usually busy trying to thin out the units of 30 skelletons/zombies

i had thought to try the new longstrike bows, but seems a waste of good rend?

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With storm cast and fireslayers it could be hard. I have found magic an ok way of dealing with them if you can bring a balewind.

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I find weight of attacks is the only real way to kill it, along with a bit of luck. They're disgustingly-good units, and a real fire-and-forget one that doesn't need support unlike the rest of Death. Not well thought-out IMO.

I'd say you'll want to bring everything to bear on it. It only has a 6" range for it's -1 Hit debuff, so pound it with whatever ranged fire you can muster, then throw your best at it. Battleline units like Judicators won't cut it.

If you're lucky, you can take advantage of the common amateur Mourngul mistake people make where they throw it forward unsupported, allowing you to kill it before their army connects. 

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damn Forgeworld models

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KILL-IT-WITH-FIRE-FUNNY-FORUM-PICS.jpg

OR

With Starsoul Maces

6xl.jpg

 

There is no good answer as the Mournghul has an answer for everything but I killed my first and only mournghul with a Frostlord on Stonehorn who bellowed tyran himself with a swig of battlebeer. I know, this is no Order but still....

Protectors are a nice bet in that case.

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I deal with tem mostly by  dying an horrible death

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We had the same discussion on another forum and the general answer was weight of attacks as @CoffeeGrunt has already said, long range like a Basiladon searing beam and pepper it with attacks.

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This is the reason why you never should play without Protectors and/or Fulminators.

Generally, decide which one you want to kill and go ALL IN. Splitting your attacks among different targets is bad.

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High volume of low quality attacks.

Clan rats/plague monks or bloodbound buffed up to have ~2-4 attacks per model, in a unit of like ~20-40 models.

For Stormcast I'm not sure the best solution.

Possibly the new Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows, 2 units of 3 is about ~ 50 attacks rights? If he is forced to make ~8-15 saves every turn you can eventually grind him down. Best to all-in him early and quickly, otherwise he will stomp around eating units and healing up. You really have to choose what to feed him while you create either an all-in attack plan or try to outgrind his healing.

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That buff is a ******, but if you throw a bunch of ****** units at the mournghul hoping to kill it, it's just going to heal up.

You have a few options for it: put it up against an equivalent monster of yours; tie it up way out of the way of the rest of the battle (if you can) and try to ignore it; overwhelm it right away with shooting attacks. I find that if you can get it out of the way and keep it there, the battle will go better than if you waste a whole bunch of resources on it. It isn't a huge threat in combat, so a decently sized, inspired throwaway unit can hold it for a while.

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I've found the best thing to do is to just clear out the rest of his army and not engage the Mourngul if you can choose to. Sure it'll more or less delete a unit per turn, but if you kill all of their stuff and have more army remaining, you'll generally win anyway. 

If they're running multiple Mourguls, then you can usually play the objective game and just sacrifice units. There's not really much else to be said about it. With their insane statline, they're going to outvalue anything of equal or lesser points, but the game isn't about killing things.

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The irritating thing is that you really need to kill it in one grand slam. It will win any war of attrition you attempt. 

Perhaps a buffed up Stardrake may be the answer. 

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Is the new Vanguard Unit with the Hurricane Crossbows a solid option? Their profile seems about right and their range isn't bad. The Mournghoul will always come to you so keeping them still for the extra bonus is also viable. You'll have to feed it a Unit of something but it's very hard to get around that as SCE.

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I've found that Mournguls are a bit of a distraction piece if not used well, one that you expend a lot of resources trying to kill when you should be scoring objectives. Unless you can turn out a lot of burst damage just tie them up with your chaff and concentrate on the rest of the army. With a bit of thought you can tie them up with far less points worth of stuff.

 

You've got lots of ignore wound rolls with Fyreslayer units they'd make good chaff in this case (especially with the new points)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

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4 hours ago, CoffeeGrunt said:

I find weight of attacks is the only real way to kill it, along with a bit of luck. They're disgustingly-good units, and a real fire-and-forget one that doesn't need support unlike the rest of Death. Not well thought-out IMO.

I'd say you'll want to bring everything to bear on it. It only has a 6" range for it's -1 Hit debuff, so pound it with whatever ranged fire you can muster, then throw your best at it. Battleline units like Judicators won't cut it.

If you're lucky, you can take advantage of the common amateur Mourngul mistake people make where they throw it forward unsupported, allowing you to kill it before their army connects. 

It's points need to go up up up or it should get the more common only ignores rend 1.

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8 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

It's points need to go up up up or it should get the more common only ignores rend 1.

The Mourngul is a little too much power packed into one unit without obvious counters.

However Death doesn't have a lot of other efficient options to stand on. I'm hoping they raise this guy a bit and decrease costs for some of death's other units.

Mourngul would probably better overall if they reduced his points and changed him to be less powerful, giving death a bit of flexibility.

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Posted (edited)

This is the type of thing people use as an excuse to ban Forgeworld. You know, they can have 99 units perfectly balance or even underpower, like the Basilisk, but just one unit OP and "Omg Forgeworld yadayada!"
 

Ironically, you will never see anyone talking of ban GW because units are OP. 

 

And yes, I think the nerf should be a mix:
-Lower his point cost
-Lower his power and give him some vulneralitys

But keep the concept. I'm not fan of just "Lower the points!" because that way you end with 300 models in a 2k points game.

 

I deal with Mornghuls with hordes of Grots and going to objetives, but actually I only play with one friend that has only 1 Mornghul and he doesn't use it all the time, so I have little experience against it.

Edited by Galas

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I feel for you. I have every model in Death but refuse to buy the Mourngul. It's not a very attractive looking model and it's boringly overpowered. It does everything Neferata can do but better. She's the first vampire and it's just some random monster. That's just wrong.

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Posted (edited)

Protectors with Starsoul Maces and Hammerstrike Force. Vanguard Raptors with Longstrike. But i agree they are very hard to deal with.

Edited by Erdemo86

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Like others have said it's incredibly rough. You need massive amounts of damage to deal with them. Ben Curry talked about dealing with these sorts of things last week. It's well worth a listen. With Stormcast shoot it to hell then try and smash it with protectors under the hammerstrike buff. 

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Never faced one. Just now looking at the stats and abilities my best guess would be to face it with a monster (i.e. something that wont die in a round so the thing cannot heal) meanwhile hitting it from afar with ranged attacks

I never use the stonehorn in my collection since my friends seem to have no answer for it. Its similarly (if not more) OP so very little fun. But against such an unbalanced dude as a mourngul I would probably field a stonehorn to pin it down and frost it to oblivion with a thundertusk from behind

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star soul maces look like a good option was thinking of taking a celestial vindocators battalion to help...

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Lord celestant on a dracoth with staunch defender, the -1 to hit relic, and a castellant shield only has to survive the turn he charges to lock it up for several turns. Layer on a relictor or the tempestor -hit ability you can pin a mourngul in a corner and grind it off over 2-3 turns while all the damage of your army kills the rest of the death army.

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