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Warrior Brotherhood is Dead. long live WB!


Dave Fraser

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So AoS has been with us for 18+ months now, most of the rage has gone and everyone is just getting on with enjoying playing whichever game they settled on.  Now GW have given the AoS community it’s first big tester in the form of a new Stormcast book.

Everyone (slight exaggeration, nearly everyone) who had been playing SC had settled into the comfortable Warrior Brotherhood & Azyros formation to drop on top of you and kill what they liked.  It was powerful, though not all conquering and I found it frustrating because it shaped the whole way people had to build their lists.

With the new book having been spoiled all across the internet this week we have a fairly good idea how the book has changed and on the whole it looks like they’ve tried to move away from that which I think is probably good for the game as a whole.  It looks like with the formations which are there we should see a lot of options for different types of build which should make them a more fun and varied army to build and play (with & against).

What I’ve seen of the online reaction is there isn’t too much rage.  There are a few people who have just bought the WB setup and are disappointed that they’ve missed the opportunity to filth it up but on the whole it seems to be considered a positive thing.

This morning the delightful AoS Daily (Bad Dice daily) by Ben Curry talked about an event where players have the choice to run the old or new book as it’s just next week and he’s only really got the WB build painted so this led me to looking about how you could run it effectively under the new book and actually I think there is a list which will run close enough.

For those that don’t know the WB setup ben has been running:

  • 2x Azyros (normally)

  • 3x5 liberators

  • 2x5 judicators

  • 2x10 Protectors (paladins)

  • 1x9 Prosecutors with Javelins

  • Warrior Brotherhood formation

As the Azyros no longer gives the ability to drop inside 9” it’s relatively less useful these days so ben was looking for alternative characters.  With the many many items, abilities, monster special stuff it looks like there is a way to stack those on a Celestant on Dracoth to make him fairly punchy so feels like a decent little smashy unit and he’s reasonably survivable so good for 3 places of power too.

Next up is the cheaper end of the scale because you still need to fit into 2000pts and keeping most of the army the same means not too many points left over.  I was looking at a Lord Relictor because the new prayers in the book seem like a really useful set of buffs to have available and he’s cheap, if you could squeeze the points a little then the Veritant would be a good option too as he gains a wound, damage 2 and the dispelling ability for 40pts that’s worth it but all depends on whether you can squeeze it in or not as points get tight.

For the main list there is one formation that I feel is core for retaining the WB style list in the form of the Hammerstrike Force:

  • 9 Prosecutors with Javelins

  • 10 Protectors

  • 10 Protectors

This allows the protectors to drop inside 6” of the prosecutors, so overcoming the 9” bubble from the enemy in the style previously achieved through Warrior Brotherhood & Azyros combo.

You then just need to fill out the battleline requirement which could be 3 units of judicators or if you wanted more bodies 2 judicators, 2 liberators can be squeezed in.

 

That gave me a list of:

  • Celestant on Dracoth 220

  • Lord Relictor 80

  • 2 x 5 Liberators 200

  • 2 x 5 Judicators 320

  • 1 x 9 Prosecutors 240

  • 2 x 10 Protectors 800

  • Hammerstrike Force 120

Total: 1980

 

An alternative to move this back to a single drop formation would be to wrap it all back in one of the specific chambers, in this case the Celestial Vindicators which requires 1+ Hammerstrike Force but requires 3 paladin units over 2.

  • Celestant on Dracoth 220

  • Lord Veritant 120

  • 2 x 5 Judicators 320

  • 1 x 5 Liberators 100

  • 1 x 9 Prosecutors 240

  • 1 x 10 Protectors 400

  • 2 x 5 Protectors 400

  • Hammerstrike Force 120

  • Celestial Vindicators 80

Total: 2000

 

What this lacks over the current Warrior Brotherhood is the ability to hold off dropping until the turn you choose, you can do it with the protectors but the rest of the army is either dropping on a 3+ roll each turn using the general stormcast ability or it is starting on the table.

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1 hour ago, Dave Fraser said:

What this lacks over the current Warrior Brotherhood is the ability to hold off dropping until the turn you choose

Of all the changes I think this is the best.

I played a porting list (SS) exactly once and dropped my first turn. Now I'm not a strategic genius and I don't think they designed it so that the best players would be on the board under half the time.

Mainly because it makes for a pretty boring few turns for your opponent!

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Some great thoughts Dave. I'll be honest, I'm over the moon that Warrior Brotherhood has gone. I have no issue with hard armies but this one was a bit of a no brainer so the changes are great and can turn a one sided game into a game!

I think you have also hit the nail on the head with the list as well as it seems a fairly natural way for players with the Warrior Brotherhood to go. Personally I think this will fall to the wayside over time and I think we will see a nice variety in Stormcast lists now. At least everybody still knows what to try and gear up against for Heat 2 ;) 

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Next up is the cheaper end of the scale because you still need to fit into 2000pts and keeping most of the army the same means not too many points left over.  I was looking at a Lord Relictor because the new prayers in the book seem like a really useful set of buffs to have available and he’s cheap, if you could squeeze the points a little then the Veritant would be a good option too as he gains a wound, damage 2 and the dispelling ability for 40pts that’s worth it but all depends on whether you can squeeze it in or not as points get tight.

Am I right in thinking that the Veritant also gets a Lantern buff on top of his extra Prayer? Similarly, does the Relictor get a Standard/Banner buff from that thing he is carrying or is that more for the Vexillor?

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What I’ve seen of the online reaction is there isn’t too much rage.  There are a few people who have just bought the WB setup and are disappointed that they’ve missed the opportunity to filth it up but on the whole it seems to be considered a positive thing.

I'm happy if they have nerfed the Warrior Brotherhood provided that you can still take it as a Matched Play Battalion (you would do so if you valued flexibility of when the units drop onto the table for Battleplan purposes - although the alpha strike nature would be reduced since you would fail the 9" charges a lot). This seems plausible, as why else bother to amend the Azyros's Warscroll if they were just going to delete the WB entirely.

The same is true for Skyborne Slayers - it would be good to have it in the arsenal so you can do a mid-level reliable alpha strike (with a 5" charge), but you sacrifice flexibility - it's all at once. 

From a personal perspective, I really want to keep using the Wardens of the Realmgate, which was fun even if it didn't always turn entirely out as planned at Heat One. #Casinostrike

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The issue that "teleporting" brings is you can just wait until what ever turn you want then bring down your whole army. That mechanic is just foolish. I'm happy of the change for a few reasons.

1) if you teleport you should be coming in on a certain turn not when you feel like it.. as stated above its pretty boring for the other player... and really has not skill

2) 9" away should be staple for any teleport ability my opinion but to be able to just pop up 3" away and basically get an auto charge is again one of those no brainer moves... (I wonder if I should walk up and possibly get shot or just wait pop up and charge)

3) I think all units should have the 9" away from an enemy and much like 40k roll to come in piece mail... but this is just me :) 

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2) 9" away should be staple for any teleport ability my opinion but to be able to just pop up 3" away and basically get an auto charge is again one of those no brainer moves... (I wonder if I should walk up and possibly get shot or just wait pop up and charge)

 

Quote

3) I think all units should have the 9" away from an enemy and much like 40k roll to come in piece mail... but this is just me :) 

It's almost as much as a no-brainer as stacking defensive buffs on a few lines of chaff and tank units then filling the space behind them with long range pew pew, blocks of mid range pew pew and maybe an artillery piece - then you autowin in a particularly boring manner . Alpha strike needs to be good to stop the game becoming Age of Pew Pew. Perhaps Alpha Strike was slightly (like less than 5%) too good in December, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a valuable role in the game. 

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2 hours ago, Dave Fraser said:

An alternative to move this back to a single drop formation would be to wrap it all back in one of the specific chambers, in this case the Celestial Vindicators which requires 1+ Hammerstrike Force but requires 3 paladin units over 2.

  • Celestant on Dracoth 220

  • Lord Veritant 120

  • 2 x 5 Judicators 320

  • 1 x 5 Liberators 100

  • 1 x 9 Prosecutors 240

  • 1 x 10 Protectors 400

  • 2 x 5 Protectors 400

  • Hammerstrike Force 120

  • Celestial Vindicators 80

Total: 2000

What this lacks over the current Warrior Brotherhood is the ability to hold off dropping until the turn you choose, you can do it with the protectors but the rest of the army is either dropping on a 3+ roll each turn using the general stormcast ability or it is starting on the table.

This is what I'll be starting with. Single drop armies are great, but single drop armies that are off the table and can then react to the entire deployment of the opponent are even better.

I am running min Prosecutors and 3 units of 10 Protectors in my first list. I will have to judge through playing if more range and/or more or different characters are preferred.

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1 hour ago, Criti said:

As this is the Allegiance Ability,  you're in luck. 

Sorry I should say all armies should have the restriction not just storm cast. There are just some silly formation (scaven) that just allow you to pop up any where walk and shoot and charge that is just silly imo.

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1 hour ago, Nico said:

It's almost as much as a no-brainer as stacking defensive buffs on a few lines of chaff and tank units then filling the space behind them with long range pew pew, blocks of mid range pew pew and maybe an artillery piece - then you autowin in a particularly boring manner . Alpha strike needs to be good to stop the game becoming Age of Pew Pew. Perhaps Alpha Strike was slightly (like less than 5%) too good in December, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a valuable role in the game. 

My issues with WB were not how it interacted with ranged armies, but how it interacted with melee armies.

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1 hour ago, kozokus said:

Mmmmmmh. have my book in my hands and that Knight Vexillor hasn't changed at all. Not a single word (or more important not a single number) except for his cost. Surprise!

Pics or GTFO. Also for the record, you still get to choose when the paladins from the hammerstrike come down because they're going into the celestial realm from the hammerstrike rule not the Scions of the Storm rule.

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Mmmmmmh. have my book in my hands and that Knight Vexillor hasn't changed at all. Not a single word (or more important not a single number) except for his cost. Surprise!

They literally showed it on the official stream and we've seen pictures of other people's book already. You may just have a misprint, or you're just trolling.

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@kozokus @BURF1 @Requizen
He either dosent realzie it used to say more than 3" from the enemy, or hes just messing with you. Its already up online;
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-knightvexillor-en.pdf

Pennant of the Stormbringer: Once per battle, a Knight-Vexillor carrying a Pennant of the Stormbringer can summon a mighty hurricane in your hero phase. To do so, pick a Stormcast Eternal unit in your army and remove it from play, then set it up anywhere more than 9" from the enemy. It cannot move in the following movement phase.

For all of you saying that Warrior Brotherhood is dead, you don't understand the rules;

Q: If I have two different warscrolls for the same unit, can I choose which to use, or must I use the most recently published version?
A: You can choose which warscroll to use, but it may be more convenient for your opponent if you use the most recently published version, especially if the earlier version is no longer readily available.

In other words, unless specifically FAQ'd in a tournament (which will likely start to be the case) You can use whatever scroll you like. I use the old Abhorrent scroll all the time - he is the glue that makes FEC great. However, in this case the intention is very clearly to do away with Warrior Brotherhood due to its unintended strength (and the fact that SCE are about to get a whole lot of bonus punch).

Note that LVO was won with the Wardens of the Realmgate battalion, which is not changing with the new battletome. 

In regards to stormcast that teleport on top of you, check out the new Lord-Aquillor
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-Lord-Aquilor-en.pdf

COMMAND ABILITY Lord of the Azyrite Hurricane: If a Lord-Aquilor uses this ability, they direct their warriors to fade and strike from an unexpected direction, whirling around the enemy like a cyclone. You can remove the Lord-Aquilor and/or a friendly unit of Vanguard-Hunters, Vanguard-Palladors, Vanguard-Raptors or Aetherwings within 24" of them from the battlefield and set them up in your subsequent movement phase as if they had been set up in pursuit (within 7" of enemies)

So, you may not be able to teleport a unit of Retributors on top of your opponent anymore, but you can teleport the new Palladors within 7"
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-Vanguard-Palladors-en.pdf

 

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Everything is fine boys, just copy Kozokus copy of the battletome and we are done :) Thanks Kozokus you are officially named Lord Scribe from now on.....

On the other hand

            Min.Batt. Minimum  
Knights Excelsior 80 + Devastation Brotherhood 60,00   940,00 Add Battleline accordingly
Celestial Vindicators 80 + Hammerstrike force 120,00   1000,00 Add Battleline accordingly
Celestial Warbringers 60 + Lords of the Storm 100,00   800,00 Add Battleline accordingly
Tempest Lords 140 + Vanguard Wing  100,00   1000,00 Add Battleline accordingly
Hammers of Sigmar 120 + Thunderhead Brotherhood 80,00   920,00  
Hallowed Knights 100 + Lords of the Storm 100,00   800,00 Add Battleline accordingly
Anvils of the Heldenhammer 80 + Thunderhead Brotherhood 80,00   940,00  
Astral Templars 100 + Lords of the Storm 100,00   800,00 Add Battleline accordingly

 

So i think that they may be used in  2.5k+ games.

Dont forget the golden rule............ANY NUMBER OF ADDITIONAL STORMCAST ETERNALS UNITS

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On 2/17/2017 at 4:57 AM, Nico said:

Am I right in thinking that the Veritant also gets a Lantern buff on top of his extra Prayer? Similarly, does the Relictor get a Standard/Banner buff from that thing he is carrying or is that more for the Vexillor?

The Veritant CAN take one of the Mystic Lights in place of a normal artifact. He gets a Prayer regardless. However, the Lord-Relictor is not a TOTEM (currently the Vexillor is the only one), so he can't take a Treasured Standard in place of another artifact.

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If I'm right, you can use the stormcast ability to drop the prosecutors where you want them, then bring the paladins down at a convenient time 3" from enemy. Still pretty good, could drop 30 retributors on someone!


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8 hours ago, jamierk said:

If I'm right, you can use the stormcast ability to drop the prosecutors where you want them, then bring the paladins down at a convenient time 3" from enemy. Still pretty good, could drop 30 retributors on someone!


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Remember that you cannot choose not to bring down the Prosecutor. You have to roll every round and you have to bring it down on a 3+.

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For sure, but its not a big risk to take. 3+ goes off on the first turn and you feel its too early, put the prosecutors somewhere safe and nearby to where you want them (if possible) and keep the rest in reserve. Its the choice of when to bring in the paladins that makes this still pretty awesome. Not to mention you can get those paladins REALLY close to where you want them.

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On 2/17/2017 at 9:07 AM, Nico said:

 

It's almost as much as a no-brainer as stacking defensive buffs on a few lines of chaff and tank units then filling the space behind them with long range pew pew, blocks of mid range pew pew and maybe an artillery piece - then you autowin in a particularly boring manner . Alpha strike needs to be good to stop the game becoming Age of Pew Pew. Perhaps Alpha Strike was slightly (like less than 5%) too good in December, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a valuable role in the game. 

I guess I don't know what sort of uber defensive buffs every army could get.

I don't agree here. As the game is based off of line of site so even if you have a units in front of your you can still shoot into the back rank. The storm cast have flying units that can shoot and good range on all their attacks. A teleport will still easily get into the back ranks of armies so if someone does want to try and have a defensive front line and shooting in the back they still need to be concerned about placement. (remember this is a game of missions not just kill kill kill). 

It makes a player have to think of units to pick so the defensive buff no brainer things will not take into effect if you have say mortal wound. Or a mobile army that can get around defensive units or hell even have defensive units of your own to tie down other's defensive units.

The no brainer is the auto includes hence the reason why many storm cast armies looks so similar cause I can either take an army where I need to think where to place my men and maneuver properly (use tactics) or I can just take teleporting peeps that can pop up any where take no damage and just charge hmmm seems like a no brainer if I want an easy win no? 

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