ZealousJ Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Hello all Sorry if this is one of those irritating topics that crops up every now and again but info hope you'll all humour me. I've decided to give AOS a go having left the hobby a few years a go and played around with other systems. I recently found out that a couple of my best friends have been playing and that there is now a points system in place. After a good couple of weeks reading up and looking at some of the outstanding new models I have to say: I'm hooked and terribly excited. Here's the thing. I had intended to dust off my old beastmen and repaint them. Problem is I just can't get into the swing of painting them. There's too much flesh and too little opportunity to create an individual looking army for my taste. As such I'm looking at starting a new army with limited funds and free time and I was hoping I could find some advice here. My two main choices are: Orruks of all varieties. I've always loved orcs and played them a fair bit in the past. The new ironjaws models and the bonesplittas are absolutely beautiful looking models and full of character. One of the things I enjoyed so much about the green skins of the world that was was the variation. I could play cavalry, war machines, monsters, some shooting elements etc. As such, I don't think I'd like to play pure ironjaws as they seem a little bland in terms of playstyle. Similarly there isn't enough variation in bonesplittas to keep me interested. I quite like the idea of perhaps painting the army, ironjaws included, to look like bonesplittas, perhaps using the green skins rules. Would this be acceptable/workable? How viable is a mixed destruction force? Perhaps generic green skins as a base with a unit of brutes and a few grot warmachine? Alternatively I really love the new tzeentch releases. There's not a single model from the new range that I don't adore and the start collecting box looks like really good value. Tzeentch has always been my favourite of the chaos gods though I've never played a chaos army that wasn't beasts so it could be a good way to have a fresh start. Generally as I don't have too much spare time I don't want to have to paint hordes of models though I don't need to go for an extremely small model count. I'd also like an army with some versatility in both gameplay terms and in painting terms as it's likely to my only army for some time. I hope this wasn't too painfully dull to read for those of you who made it this far. Thanks for or reading. I'd really appreciate any help you can give. This seems like a really nice community that's growing here. Cheers Johnny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinros Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Right after reading your post, I would have to recommend the new tzeentch because you got LOADS of options there since the tome covers all things tzeentch. You can run demons, slaves to darkness or Arcanites or even a mix if you want and it being chaos you have a lot of freedom in the painting area as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZealousJ Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 Thanks for that Shinros. I was originally drawn to tzeentch for all of the reasons you gave. I was a little worried that I'd miss cavalry and war machines but perhaps I won't with all of those demons flying about. Just feel I should point out that I'm.not entirely stuck on these two factions so if someone had an alternative suggestion I would consider it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailstorm Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Yeah, Tzeentch will be great, because it is quite versatile. In addition to that, you can always expand to include more of the other Chaos factions and it will synergise well with the rest of your force. Chaos can be as elite as you like or include massed infantry, and has monsters, monstrous cav, and everything you could want, really. Plus, you can use summoning points to bring in other elements while still retaining your cool Tzeentchian core battleline and allegiance abilities. Because of this, it can be quite advantageous tactically. You could bring a 1.5k army to a 2k point game and just bring on 500 points of whatever you needed for the situation at hand, whether it's a Bloodthirster to smash face or some flamers to shoot. A Lord of Change is the most reliable summoner in the game because it can change the lowest dice to match the highest when casting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Grimwood Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I do apologise the two other posters seem to having a bit of moment the answer to your question is, Orruks That is all ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZealousJ Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 @Ollie Grimwood: Hah! I really would appreciate a more detailed orruk counter to tzeentch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Welcome back!! If precedent is to continue you'll see an 'Disciples of Orruk' book into the future that may include some goblins with warmachines. Until then adding the old ones works just as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Grimwood Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 2 hours ago, ZealousJ said: @Ollie Grimwood: Hah! I really would appreciate a more detailed orruk counter to tzeentch. Well I'm a little surprised my incisive thematic arguement wasn't enough ? I feel a mixed Orruk army would produce an excellently balanced force capable of competing in all phases of the game, with grot artillery and Kunning Rukks for shooting, Brutes for fighting, plenty of wizards across the factions with Orruk Warbosses to synergise well with their Command abilities (or Gordrakk if you've got the points). Also Bonesplitterz at the moment are one of the best points to wounds ratios for their battline units so great chaff. It's what I'm working on at the moment and I couldn't say at that moment if it's going to win lots but it's certainly going to fun to play and provide plenty of variation when painting. And Orruks are just so blinking cool and always have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquietfrog Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 5 hours ago, Ollie Grimwood said: Well I'm a little surprised my incisive thematic arguement wasn't enough ? I feel a mixed Orruk army would produce an excellently balanced force capable of competing in all phases of the game, with grot artillery and Kunning Rukks for shooting, Brutes for fighting, plenty of wizards across the factions with Orruk Warbosses to synergise well with their Command abilities (or Gordrakk if you've got the points). Also Bonesplitterz at the moment are one of the best points to wounds ratios for their battline units so great chaff. It's what I'm working on at the moment and I couldn't say at that moment if it's going to win lots but it's certainly going to fun to play and provide plenty of variation when painting. And Orruks are just so blinking cool and always have been. You should have included a "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!" in your argument. I do think a mix of destruction forces are quite viable. A generic orruk warboss with the banner is a great support general that can buff any unit with the orruk keyword, plus an ironfist battalion to solve any mobility issues, the bonesplittaz' kunnin rukk is a good substitute for any warmachine as you can bring 40 savage orruk arrerboyz and be potentially loosing 240 shots a turn (also potentially 500 dice rolls a turn, ugh), better than any warmachine possibly could do, as they also bring 80 wounds on the table. As for tzeentch, cavalry is not missing in that army as you can have tzaangors on discs, or tzeentch marked chaos knights or marauder horsemen. The disciples of tzeentch pretty much builds allegiances on the tzeentch keyword. So anything with a tzeentch keyword can potentially be used in your army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradifer Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 MY vote is also for Tzeentch over the destruction stuff. Personally I don't like GW's orruk's/orcs, because they prefer their orcs to be sortof the joke/stupid faction of the game. Ironjawz look really cool, but Savage Orruks, goblins, squigs, giants, well, those look goofy as heck. I think you'll also find more playstyle and paintstyle variety with Tzeentch. Tzeentch has pink/blue/purple as main colors, then you do golds/bronze/metals, plus you can add green/orange for fire etc.... They've got foot soldiers, summonable neutral chaos monsters, chariots, heroes, mages, elite units... Playstyle wise I also think Tzeentch will have more variety. While it is 100% way more focuse don magic than Destruction, you can also have decent-to-good melee, decent-to-good ranged, good-to-amazing magic, decent-to-amazing mortal wound output, and options for mobility...In general Destruction's strategy seems to be "run into my opponent, do melee, fight them". While I'm sure they can go deeper than that, their ranged options are much more limited and as a faction, Chaos has a bigger variety of aesthetic and playstyles to evolve into. Also, it's nice playing an army that just came out, because you know it's gonna be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Ironjawz iz best. See? Dat's 'ow it's done @Ollie Grimwood. Dat's why we don't leave da importunt stuff ta kickin' grots. Back to da Drops wiv ya and bring a mop! Deze no good Tzeentch luvvaz (wot iz a Tzeentch anyway? Sounds like a cross between a sneeze, a ****** and a foot fungus, NOT PROPPA) don't know anyfing about a proppa scrap. Dey can't even wiggle fingaz as a proppa Wurgogg Prophet, Wardokk or Weirdnob. Deyz tryin' ta be all fancy, swooshin' around and when da real gitz'r givin' a proppa scrum and poppin' headz not sittin' around chanting koombaya and puttin' feathers in each others hair. Worst of all? Da boss iz literally a BIG CHICKEN! If da warpaint ain't given ya a proppa picture yet, bein' led around by A BIG CHICKEN should be an easy sign of wot's proppa and wot's a BIG CHICKEN. BIG CHICKEN iz for fryin', not bossin' proppa gitz about. Da worst part, is most of dem iz BIG CHICKENS or wanna be BIG CHICKENS. BIG CHICKENS. "Oh we'z so cool and new world, we got dem Destiny Dice so we can do wot we wanna so we can choose the face of our dice" Let's see wot kinda face yer changin' when it's fulla choppaz! Dem gitz say dey can scrap, NO. NO NO. NO. NO NO NO. I never seen a BIG CHICKEN that a Brute can't handle. "Oh we haz da mortal woundz" Boyz bring ALL da wounds wiv CHOPPAZ !!! You wanna shoot? How doez a Kunnin Ruk full of Arrer Boyz sound? Sounds like yer fightin' in da shade to me! And nobody NOBODY is faster den Da Boyz. So you gitz in yer pretty blue dresses can get all proppa and fancy wif yer tea parties and happy face dice while da boyz are in your face, choppaz swingin', arrerz flyin', Grot Doom Divers Divin', Boarboyz chargin', Brutes Smashin', Weirdnobz Jujuin' and bosses hollerin'. Green iz best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrstimpson38 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 While I agree that green is the best, A strong point could be made that since you already have a chaos army, you could start purchasing the Tzeench models and use them with your Beastmen till you get a sizable force to run pure Tzeench of whatever flavor you're feeling. You could even use your Beastmen as "counts as" replacements for Tzangors, especially if you're up for a little converting. That may refuel your desire to play with your old army, while also giving you new tools to play with. On the flip side, a strong point could be made that you should just play Orruks. Because Orruks is da best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falandris Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 3 hours ago, Dez said: Ironjawz iz best. See? Dat's 'ow it's done @Ollie Grimwood. Dat's why we don't leave da importunt stuff ta kickin' grots. Back to da Drops wiv ya and bring a mop! Deze no good Tzeentch luvvaz (wot iz a Tzeentch anyway? Sounds like a cross between a sneeze, a ****** and a foot fungus, NOT PROPPA) don't know anyfing about a proppa scrap. Dey can't even wiggle fingaz as a proppa Wurgogg Prophet, Wardokk or Weirdnob. Deyz tryin' ta be all fancy, swooshin' around and when da real gitz'r givin' a proppa scrum and poppin' headz not sittin' around chanting koombaya and puttin' feathers in each others hair. Worst of all? Da boss iz literally a BIG CHICKEN! If da warpaint ain't given ya a proppa picture yet, bein' led around by A BIG CHICKEN should be an easy sign of wot's proppa and wot's a BIG CHICKEN. BIG CHICKEN iz for fryin', not bossin' proppa gitz about. Da worst part, is most of dem iz BIG CHICKENS or wanna be BIG CHICKENS. BIG CHICKENS. "Oh we'z so cool and new world, we got dem Destiny Dice so we can do wot we wanna so we can choose the face of our dice" Let's see wot kinda face yer changin' when it's fulla choppaz! Dem gitz say dey can scrap, NO. NO NO. NO. NO NO NO. I never seen a BIG CHICKEN that a Brute can't handle. "Oh we haz da mortal woundz" Boyz bring ALL da wounds wiv CHOPPAZ !!! You wanna shoot? How doez a Kunnin Ruk full of Arrer Boyz sound? Sounds like yer fightin' in da shade to me! And nobody NOBODY is faster den Da Boyz. So you gitz in yer pretty blue dresses can get all proppa and fancy wif yer tea parties and happy face dice while da boyz are in your face, choppaz swingin', arrerz flyin', Grot Doom Divers Divin', Boarboyz chargin', Brutes Smashin', Weirdnobz Jujuin' and bosses hollerin'. Green iz best. Amazing! More of this!! The face-choppa and chicken part... genious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinoTitanedition Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Hey ZealousJ! As much as I am a greenskin fnataic, I know the feeling, when you already have something at home and think a repaint would fit it. I practically did the same with my old Warhammer Orcs and am fairly happy with that decision, even thou they are all Blood Bowl fans now and not AoS warriors. But the principle I`m explaining works - paint the beastmen the way you like and use only one color to bind the army in a whole picture. Take a look at these guys: The method would work on beastmen too and you wouldn`t waste any money. Every skincolor could be different on them. Give one a cowlike look, with white fur and some spots. One goat could be almost black furred, the next one more sepialike and so on. Then bind the army colorwise giving them warpaint, or paint their clothing always in the same color. As you can see, it gives the models a unique look and doesen`t look odd at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinoTitanedition Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Can`t edit my post, so sorry for the doublepic in the beginning. Well, anyway.....go with the goats. Again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teletomas Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Great looking fans Dino! Seems like you had some fun with the game board as well.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZealousJ Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Wow. So many replies. Thanks for all the advice fellas, it's really encouraging. Where to start? @DinoTitanedition : I see what you did there. Pretend to be all reasonable and level headed whilst secretly trying to make me go green by showing me those stunning orcs. I'm onto you? I do love those orcs (I've always had a thing for black and yellow schemes) and I really appreciate the advice. The problem I have with beastmen is that there is so little variety in surfaces model to model. For example the orcs there have green flesh and plenty cloth/leather surfaces that can be used to add unifyjng colours. With the beasts most models have flesh and fur with some of them having a tiny bit of cloth for spot colour but not many. You've definitely made me consider looking at my paints again to see if I can work something out though. @Dez: that was excellent. Most Orly speak posts make me cringe but that was genuinely funny. Almost enough to convince me @everyotherbugger: good points all round. It's a very personal decision in the end so I really appreciate everyone jumping in to help. It's especially nice, as a returning player, to know that both options are eligible. It seems tzeentch is probably the safe option with destruction being the wildcard Cheers again Johnny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 You've mentioned that you want a painting project that will last you a good while and give you a lot of flexibility, but you haven't talked about what your preferred painting approach is, and I think that could be a factor. Tzeentch will give you a lot of flexibility in terms of colour scheme and the broadness of the palette, but the new models have a huge amount of detail covering every surface, so if you're into freehand and playing around with textures then you might find them a bit limiting. All those details will certainly keep you occupied for some time though. On the other hand, Ironjaws and Bonesplitters have much less detail and lots of flat areas of skin and armour. So if your approach is just to shade and highlight every surface then you could have them completed very quickly, BUT those flat surfaces will also give you opportunities for intricate war paint and tattoo designs if freehand is your thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Grimwood Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 10 hours ago, Dez said: Ironjawz iz best. See? Dat's 'ow it's done @Ollie Grimwood. Dat's why we don't leave da importunt stuff ta kickin' grots. Back to da Drops wiv ya and bring a mop! Deze no good Tzeentch luvvaz (wot iz a Tzeentch anyway? Sounds like a cross between a sneeze, a ****** and a foot fungus, NOT PROPPA) don't know anyfing about a proppa scrap. Dey can't even wiggle fingaz as a proppa Wurgogg Prophet, Wardokk or Weirdnob. Deyz tryin' ta be all fancy, swooshin' around and when da real gitz'r givin' a proppa scrum and poppin' headz not sittin' around chanting koombaya and puttin' feathers in each others hair. Worst of all? Da boss iz literally a BIG CHICKEN! If da warpaint ain't given ya a proppa picture yet, bein' led around by A BIG CHICKEN should be an easy sign of wot's proppa and wot's a BIG CHICKEN. BIG CHICKEN iz for fryin', not bossin' proppa gitz about. Da worst part, is most of dem iz BIG CHICKENS or wanna be BIG CHICKENS. BIG CHICKENS. "Oh we'z so cool and new world, we got dem Destiny Dice so we can do wot we wanna so we can choose the face of our dice" Let's see wot kinda face yer changin' when it's fulla choppaz! Dem gitz say dey can scrap, NO. NO NO. NO. NO NO NO. I never seen a BIG CHICKEN that a Brute can't handle. "Oh we haz da mortal woundz" Boyz bring ALL da wounds wiv CHOPPAZ !!! You wanna shoot? How doez a Kunnin Ruk full of Arrer Boyz sound? Sounds like yer fightin' in da shade to me! And nobody NOBODY is faster den Da Boyz. So you gitz in yer pretty blue dresses can get all proppa and fancy wif yer tea parties and happy face dice while da boyz are in your face, choppaz swingin', arrerz flyin', Grot Doom Divers Divin', Boarboyz chargin', Brutes Smashin', Weirdnobz Jujuin' and bosses hollerin'. Green iz best. This post is so good I'm going to give it not one but TWO choppaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 @scrubyandwells has well thought out, intellectually stimulating posts. I try to do the same and muck it all up with Ork Talk...which usually is really awful to read. Glad you guys enjoyed it There are quite a benefits to going with Tzeentch. It's new, you can play the army in 40K or Fantasy, there is lots of depth to it. Man is there a lot of depth to it, I've read through the book several times myself and the lightbulbs still turn on every time I read it. So much great synergy and tricks going on, it's like Skaven to the next level and I find it enthralling. Oh yeah, I'm going to be doing a Tzeentch army as well. I've been a Disciple since 2006 I'm going to build mine up on what I already own, plus what I have in Silver Tower. However, there's something to be said on the diversity of Greenskins, Bonesplitterz, Ironjawz and Destruction as a whole. While Ironjawz do play pretty much as described above (run across board, put choppas in faces, leave a business card) Bonesplitterz are a whole different beast (see wot I did there?). They have a lot of tactical nuance, and amazing Battalions. Bonesplitterz are very competetive, just ask about the Kunnin' Ruk. I'd say they are almost as nuanced as Tzeentch. Greenskinz as a whole you can do anything with. I'd love to see a Chariot/Warmachine heavy army out of them. You can do Green Tide. You can bring Monster Mash. You can even do Elite theme or bring all the Gobbo Horde. I smile every time I work on my Orks, no matter their faction or system. It's so much fun to paint and model crazy stuff. I often find I look up and it's 3AM, and I'm still full of energy and painting/converting even though my youngest is going to be up at 5:15. I think of cool tattoos I can add or different Icons I can paint on the flat surfaces. I don't care if they are Beast Hunters, I'm planning on making some Savage Orcs riding around on Thundertusks because I want to. They are both great armies, you can't go wrong. In my opinion, Green iz Best (except those weedy paintkini wearin' Bonesplitterz, right @Thanatos Ares?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Ares Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 [emoji6]Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleb Daark Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 On 09/02/2017 at 6:11 PM, ZealousJ said: @Ollie Grimwood: Hah! I really would appreciate a more detailed orruk counter to tzeentch. It is however a very orruk style of answer so you should award points for that its threads ads like this that make this community and AoS a nice place to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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