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'Competitive' Disciples of Tzeentch


Drillz

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I'm thinking of taking a Curseling as the general with the increased Unbind and Balewind.  Is this as snazy as I hope?  I was also considering the Windthief thing so Turn 1 he can pop it in the Hero phase, move up 10 inches or so.  Hopefully cast Balewind (could use DD for it if I wanna be sure, but aren't there a few armies that have 'dispel scrolls?').  

He cannot move after he has cast the Balewind until you dismiss it at the start of the next hero phase. Try taking the Paradoxical shield, so that he will have a 1+ save once on the Balewind (but must reroll all successful saves, so basically you need to roll a 2+ twice to save even against -1 rend due to the rule of one).

Balewind and reinforcement points

Incidentally, my thinking is that if you dismiss the Balewind, you can resummon the same one without spending another 100 reinformcement points, but you couldn't dismiss it and then summon 10 Bloodletters instead for the same 100 reinforcement points. Effectively you're committed to spending the 100 reinforcement points for the choice of the Balewind once you summon it the first time but you can still use the dismiss and summon again mechanics of the Warscroll itself. A different wizard could summon the same Balewind (it doesn't belong to the first wizard).

I doubt whether your opponent could ever get the 100 kill points in relation to it (ditto if you summoned a Sylvaneth Wyldwood as a non-Sylvaneth player for reinforcement points).

Note that DoT can actually troll Sylvaneth occasionally by nabbing Verdant Blessing from them (Changeling or Curseling) and creating a Wyldwood in an inconvenient spot (using their own Wyldwood model). This would cost reinforcement points, but could be hilarious. This could backfire spectacularly to put it mildly (which is very fluffy for Tzeentch - as the awesome book suggests). 

For completeness, if you really wanted to, you could summon one in the first turn and then another one in your second turn (which would of course cost a total of 200 reinforcement points and require you to be a pro at rolling 7 casting rolls (or waste some Destiny Dice). 

The Balewind does double the effect of aoe spell effect ranges - this is seriously old news. Ask Kroak and his Astrolith bearers - he's still out there, he'll be back one day.

Hopefully this isn't (too) controversial. Thoughts anyone?

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What's your plan with The Eternal Conflagration? I'm still not 100% on the dodgy wording of that battalion. I had am plan to use Burning Chariots for very extended spell casting but I'm not sure if that's even allowed now.

The burning chariots are too expensive in my view, I'm going to use 6 Exalted Flamers as the D3 mortal wounds rule from them is a lot stronger than the rule for 3 Flamers - each 1 Exalted Flamer (it refers to each "this model's Billowing Warpflame") can split shots up and cause a chance of D3 mortal wounds to 6 (or realistically 3-4 different units). It's basically the lower end of long range pew pew (27" effective range whereas Judicators are 29" effective range), whereas the spells and maybe 3 Skyfires try to fend off the likely superior long range pew pew of the enemy.

It's still potentially feeble for the substantial cost (but it's not ludicrous like the cost of 3 Flamers).

I've posted above about the Flamer = Flamer = Keyword point. It cannot plausibly be intended as a reference to a (non-existent) unit name and makes abundant sense as a keyword.

Hopefully this will leave space for some mortals or Tzaangors, maybe Kairos and maybe a summoning pool.

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Doesn´t anyone think that just spamming Acolytes and Witchfyre coven Is a powerfull build?
Boring as fakk for sure

Normally the long range shooting beats the mid range shooting. This is even more the case if the mid range shooting consists of multiple units with bad bravery.

I do see a role for Acolytes, but I wouldn't feel confident in spamming them. The 6+ ward saves on the majority of the models at the back are significant. 

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4 hours ago, Nico said:

The burning chariots are too expensive in my view, I'm going to use 6 Exalted Flamers as the D3 mortal wounds rule from them is a lot stronger than the rule for 3 Flamers - each 1 Exalted Flamer (it refers to each "this model's Billowing Warpflame") can split shots up and cause a chance of D3 mortal wounds to 6 (or realistically 3-4 different units). It's basically the lower end of long range pew pew (27" effective range whereas Judicators are 29" effective range), whereas the spells and maybe 3 Skyfires try to fend off the likely superior long range pew pew of the enemy.

It's still potentially feeble for the substantial cost (but it's not ludicrous like the cost of 3 Flamers).

I've posted above about the Flamer = Flamer = Keyword point. It cannot plausibly be intended as a reference to a (non-existent) unit name and makes abundant sense as a keyword.

Hopefully this will leave space for some mortals or Tzaangors, maybe Kairos and maybe a summoning pool.

Has anyone asked the GW rule guys about it? It's probably been overlooked as most look at The Hosts Duplicitous 

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Just play it the Keyword way and refer back to this thread if challenged, or (as it's a list building issue rather than a mechanics of the game issue, you can email the TO in advance and clear it then). It really shouldn't be controversial as it's obvious what the purpose is. As you say, it's the cheaper and weaker of the the Two Big Battalions for Daemons.

 

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New idea yet again.

This one has most of the Changehost shenanigans with the Changeling. Unit swap him with either Horrors to create a wall or a Burning Chariot to possibly snipe or whittle down something. 

The Tzaangors, Shaman, and Ogroid will be a large pack running around together that tries to smash into everything it finds. I think the Ogroid can be a real powerhouse with Infusion Arcanum + Arcane Transformation. With +Hit/Wound rolls, +1 move and +1 attacks he will wreck things...lots of things. 

Only thing I'm not sure on yet is who the general would be or items to hand out. 

Screenshot_20170224-131317.jpg

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7 hours ago, Nico said:

He cannot move after he has cast the Balewind until you dismiss it at the start of the next hero phase. Try taking the Paradoxical shield, so that he will have a 1+ save once on the Balewind (but must reroll all successful saves, so basically you need to roll a 2+ twice to save even against -1 rend due to the rule of one).

Balewind and reinforcement points

Incidentally, my thinking is that if you dismiss the Balewind, you can resummon the same one without spending another 100 reinformcement points, but you couldn't dismiss it and then summon 10 Bloodletters instead for the same 100 reinforcement points. Effectively you're committed to spending the 100 reinforcement points for the choice of the Balewind once you summon it the first time but you can still use the dismiss and summon again mechanics of the Warscroll itself. A different wizard could summon the same Balewind (it doesn't belong to the first wizard).

I doubt whether your opponent could ever get the 100 kill points in relation to it (ditto if you summoned a Sylvaneth Wyldwood as a non-Sylvaneth player for reinforcement points).

Note that DoT can actually troll Sylvaneth occasionally by nabbing Verdant Blessing from them (Changeling or Curseling) and creating a Wyldwood in an inconvenient spot (using their own Wyldwood model). This would cost reinforcement points, but could be hilarious. This could backfire spectacularly to put it mildly (which is very fluffy for Tzeentch - as the awesome book suggests). 

For completeness, if you really wanted to, you could summon one in the first turn and then another one in your second turn (which would of course cost a total of 200 reinforcement points and require you to be a pro at rolling 7 casting rolls (or waste some Destiny Dice). 

The Balewind does double the effect of aoe spell effect ranges - this is seriously old news. Ask Kroak and his Astrolith bearers - he's still out there, he'll be back one day.

Hopefully this isn't (too) controversial. Thoughts anyone?

 
 

Windthief says Once Per Battle, it doesn't say what phase.  So I was thinking of using it during the hero phase.  So Hero Phase a Curseling Windthiefs his way 10" up.  Then go for Balewind.  Things like Souldraught and Timeslip both specify what phase they occur in.  Windthief doesn't, so if it was only in the Movement Phase wouldn't it state that?

I didn't realize you could dismiss and resummon the same one.  I think people would be cringey on that, but it kind of makes sense.

Thanks for the thoughts!

Is there any reason to run two Curselings?  4 casts/unbinds.  Spell selection may be stretched on the early turns but as soon as you get a Glean Magic off they are going to have Bolt, Shield, Lore, Glean, and whatever they stole.

I was thinking this with a Tzaangor.  This way the Tzaangor get the Arcanite Hero Bonus.  The Curselings are a little slow though compared to the gor.

 

My plan for 1.5k

Curseling. -   Magical Supremacy, Paradox Shield, Treacherous Bond

Changeling - Bolt of Tzeentch 

Tzhaman - Fold Reality

Tzaangor x20

Pink Horrors x10 - Fold Reality

Pink Horrors or Acolytes x10 - Fold Reality

Brimestone Horrors x10

Skyfires x6

Balewind

 

I'm not sure if the Changeling and Balewind are both worth it.  With as much Fold Reality as I have I was thinking it may be a better idea to take some Enlightened or another Skyfire unit, either three or six.

However, Changeling would be nice to put some early pressure on the enemy maybe.  Or to just sail over and try to kill something squishy or that has a big weapon?

 

 

 

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I've just reread Windthief again - it's phenomenal. As it doesn't say anything about timing (other than once per game) you can literally use it in the enemy's turn in any phase. Incredibly nifty. No wonder they don't give it to Daemons as would be overpowered.

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Yeah, that's what I was thinking.  So you Windthief the Curseling up 10" (he is Move 5").  Then cast Balewind.  Then cast two of whatever else.  Then dispel 27" range, doubling casting ranges.

Is the Balewind considered terrain?  Would you get a +1 Save as well?

Also, for ranges to/from I imagine you measure to the model and not the Balewind?

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On 2/24/2017 at 7:27 PM, Malakithe said:

I think the Ogroid can be a real powerhouse with Infusion Arcanum + Arcane Transformation. With +Hit/Wound rolls, +1 move and +1 attacks he will wreck things...lots of things. 

Only thing I'm not sure on yet is who the general would be or items to hand out. 

 

I was looking at this and thinking Soul Burn and Daemonheart on the Ogroid as well, then cast Demonic Power from a Chaos Sorcerer Lord... You'll probably never get him into combat, but if you did!

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First game with DoT yesterday. Used Ogroid with infusion arcanum + Tzaangor charging into a block of about 20 chaos warriors already in combat with 2 enlightened. After the dust settled, with some pretty good rolls, the chaos warriors were gone (12 warriors dead, then rolled a 6 for battle shock + enlightened's aura) whilst sky fires pew pewed the lord. Very solid start!

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Boundless Mutation may not be a bad idea if you want to go Ogroid either.  You'd be healing 1d3+1 a turn?  Should hopefully keep him around for abit.  Though the first time I took him out he soaked up all of the shooting for that phase and died.  Saved some Tzaangor though.  It maaaay be worth giving him Treacherous Bond to keep him alive longer?

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On 21/02/2017 at 6:04 PM, Malakithe said:

He is a old one. In the app under Warriors of Chaos. I've been thinking of swapping him for some other stuff thou...I wonder how a soul grinder could benefit or a beefy Daemon Prince

Going back to this what would you give to the soul grinder or daemon prince in this list?

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28 minutes ago, Eldercaveman said:

Going back to this what would you give to the soul grinder or daemon prince in this list?

Soul grinder can't be given anything. 

The Daemon Prince, depends what you want him to be really, no command ability,  decent combat potential,  I'd give him rend and a easy to cast spells due to its lack of bonuses 

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On 21/02/2017 at 6:04 PM, Malakithe said:

He is a old one. In the app under Warriors of Chaos. I've been thinking of swapping him for some other stuff thou...I wonder how a soul grinder could benefit or a beefy Daemon Prince

Going back to this what would you give to the soul grinder or daemon prince in this list?

 

6 minutes ago, Arkiham said:

Soul grinder can't be given anything. 

The Daemon Prince, depends what you want him to be really, no command ability,  decent combat potential,  I'd give him rend and a easy to cast spells due to its lack of bonuses 

I guess he just becomes another combat beast? 

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Pretty much, he doesnt excell at spell casting, doesn't tank well, has a decent offensive weapons, normally lacking due reliability, increasing one the stats then is the best way forward, khorne gives him +1 to hit and additional attacks which is great, but still struggles a bit against high save things, increasing its rend could pay off, and make him a assassin of sorts, rend 3  and d3 damage is something to be worried about for most things.

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3 minutes ago, Arkiham said:

Pretty much, he doesnt excellent at spell casting, doesn't tank well, has a decent offensive weapons, normally lacking due reliability, increasing one the stats then is the best way forward, khorne gives him +1 to hit and additional attacks which is great, but still struggles a bit against high save things, increasing its rend could pay off, and make him a assassin of sorts, rend 3  and d3 damage is something to be worried about for most things.

So you wouldn't make him a tzeentch prince then? 

I guess the next question is what to do with the the spare points. 

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52 minutes ago, Eldercaveman said:

I guess if we want a combat beast what's stopping us just putting a bloodthirster in there?

Loosing disicples of Tzeentch allegiance,  nothing stopping you from summoning one, which is easy and tbh highly unexpected 

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31 minutes ago, Arkiham said:

Loosing disicples of Tzeentch allegiance,  nothing stopping you from summoning one, which is easy and tbh highly unexpected 

So maybe just leave those points aside as reinforcement points. I'm assuming they are still good in age of sigmar like they are in 40k? Which is the better version.  

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