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'Competitive' Disciples of Tzeentch


Drillz

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I am curious to see what other Tzeentch Arcanite lists people are playing and what has been successful for them in terms on battalion and combos. So far i have heard about the Skyfires with Shaman who has Fold reality spell but what else are we using for combos?

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20-30 Tzangors is pretty ridiculous.

Being near a shaman buffs them further.

Being in the Tzangor Coven battalion and getting the free combat in the hero phase (if you meet reqs) is very dirty.

Tzangors, at 2 wounds each, are hard to reliably get rid of. Use Inspiring presence on them and they don't have much of a weakness (well I suppose opposing buckets of dice i.e. buffed plague rats/skeletons could work, but your models are such better quality while requiring little to get there.

Not to mention Tzeentch is pretty good at sniping enemy heroes.

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On 3/9/2017 at 5:58 PM, blueguy203 said:

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Tzaangor Shaman (120)
- General
- Command Trait : Arcane Sacrifice - Tzeentch Arcanite Hero
- Artefact : Wellspring of Arcane Might
- Lore of Change : Bolt of Tzeentch
Tzaangor Shaman (120)
- Artefact : Souldraught
- Lore of Fate : Shield of Fate
- Lore of Change : Bolt of Tzeentch
Tzaangor Shaman (120)
- Artefact : Souldraught
- Lore of Change : Fold Reality
Units
20 x Kairic Acolytes (280)
- 6 x Pair of Cursed Blades
- 8 x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
- 6 x Cursed Glaive
20 x Kairic Acolytes (280)
- 6 x Pair of Cursed Blades
- 8 x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
- 6 x Cursed Glaive
10 x Kairic Acolytes (140)
- 3 x Pair of Cursed Blades
- 4 x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
- 3 x Cursed Glaive
20 x Tzaangors (360)
- 8 x Pair of Savage Blades
- 4 x Savage Greatblade
- 8 x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield
3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (160)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (160)
10 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (50)
Battalions
Arcanite Cabal (50)
Alter-kin Coven (20)
Witchfyre Coven (60)
The Pyrofane Cult (80)
Total: 2000/2000
Leaders: 3/6 Battlelines: 4 (3+) Behemoths: 0/4 Artillery: 0/4

This is almost the exact same list I used in my last game, although I used a Fatemaster and Magister instead of the 2 additional Shamans, and a Lord of Change as the general, it was a 2500 pt. game.

It worked amazingly well!

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13 hours ago, Choombatta said:

This is almost the exact same list I used in my last game, although I used a Fatemaster and Magister instead of the 2 additional Shamans, and a Lord of Change as the general, it was a 2500 pt. game.

It worked amazingly well!

Nice!!! I want to incorporate the Lord of Change just as an excuse to get the new model but havent done it yet. Glad to hear that this list worked out for you though, i stuck with the Shamans since that have the most access to all the goodies Tzeentch has to offer, plus you cant pass up being on a disc. Who did you go up against and do you happen to have a battle report? 

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9 minutes ago, blueguy203 said:

Nice!!! I want to incorporate the Lord of Change just as an excuse to get the new model but havent done it yet. Glad to hear that this list worked out for you though, i stuck with the Shamans since that have the most access to all the goodies Tzeentch has to offer, plus you cant pass up being on a disc. Who did you go up against and do you happen to have a battle report? 

I do not have a battle report, but it was against 2500pt of Stormcast.

My opponent conceded after the initiative roll for the 3rd round. I had the objective in my area covered by the 20 strong Tzaangors backed up by the Shaman, and my Enlightened happened to be in his backfield right where his objective landed.

The 40 Acolytes shooting in the Hero and Shooting phase, bolstered by any of the Wizards, did an amazing amount of damage.

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24 minutes ago, Choombatta said:

I do not have a battle report, but it was against 2500pt of Stormcast.

My opponent conceded after the initiative roll for the 3rd round. I had the objective in my area covered by the 20 strong Tzaangors backed up by the Shaman, and my Enlightened happened to be in his backfield right where his objective landed.

The 40 Acolytes shooting in the Hero and Shooting phase, bolstered by any of the Wizards, did an amazing amount of damage.

Ahh ok, would have been fun reading a play by play and seeing what worked out best. Any recommendations or changes you can think of that could benefit the list more?

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55 minutes ago, blueguy203 said:

Ahh ok, would have been fun reading a play by play and seeing what worked out best. Any recommendations or changes you can think of that could benefit the list more?

Best advice I could give......

Keep the Shaman by the Tzaangors at all times. A unit of 20 Tzaangors boosted by proximity to the Shaman makes them destroyers.

Also, I kept Shield of Fate on the Tzaangors the entire time.

Also, utilize the Pryofane Cult ability, always using the Acolytes to shoot at the same target, in both the Hero and Shooting phase. They deleted a unit of Liberators or Judicators ( 5 each ) each phase.

Side question, When using the above lists, you still get to use 5 artefacts, correct?

1 Base, 1 Pyrofane Cult, 1 Wytchfire Cult, 1 Alterkin Cult, and 1 Arcanite Cabal, correct?

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46 minutes ago, Choombatta said:

Best advice I could give......

Keep the Shaman by the Tzaangors at all times. A unit of 20 Tzaangors boosted by proximity to the Shaman makes them destroyers.

Also, I kept Shield of Fate on the Tzaangors the entire time.

Also, utilize the Pryofane Cult ability, always using the Acolytes to shoot at the same target, in both the Hero and Shooting phase. They deleted a unit of Liberators or Judicators ( 5 each ) each phase.

Side question, When using the above lists, you still get to use 5 artefacts, correct?

1 Base, 1 Pyrofane Cult, 1 Wytchfire Cult, 1 Alterkin Cult, and 1 Arcanite Cabal, correct?

Yes, i have planned out the roles for each Shaman and will have one with the shield of fate right next to the Tzaangors to to combo that spell with mystic shield. Very nice to hear that the Pyrofane cult shooting does wear down the units. Those units would hit on 4+ right? I know wounding can get down to 2+ with the buffs. So how effective was the spell "Flickering Fires of Tzeentch" during the game, it what caught my eye about the Pyrofane Cult. 

 

Side answer: yes, you can get one more artifact for each additional battalion that is in your army. 

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7 minutes ago, blueguy203 said:

Yes, i have planned out the roles for each Shaman and will have one with the shield of fate right next to the Tzaangors to to combo that spell with mystic shield. Very nice to hear that the Pyrofane cult shooting does wear down the units. Those units would hit on 4+ right? I know wounding can get down to 2+ with the buffs. So how effective was the spell "Flickering Fires of Tzeentch" during the game, it what caught my eye about the Pyrofane Cult. 

 

Side answer: yes, you can get one more artifact for each additional battalion that is in your army. 

I think I only used the Flickering Fires spell once ( it was a short game ) and it did well.

My question about the Pyrofane Cult adding an artefact, as it is the battalion composed of other battalions.

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I would say yes because the Pyrofane is just another battalion that consist of smaller battalions. 

1 minute ago, Choombatta said:

I think I only used the Flickering Fires spell once ( it was a short game ) and it did well.

My question about the Pyrofane Cult adding an artefact, as it is the battalion composed of other battalions.

 

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Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300)
Gaunt Summoner (100)
Tzaangor Shaman (120)

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
30 x Tzaangors (540)
- x Pair of Savage Blades
- 12x Savage Greatblade
- 18x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield

Units
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (320)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (160)

Total: 1820/2000

Leaves me 180pt summoning pool.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

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Would love to hear people's suggestions for 1k.

Presently I run;

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300)
- General
- Trait: Magical Supremacy - Tzeentch Daemon Hero
- Artefact: Wellspring of Arcane Might 
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Tzaangor Shaman (120)
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Tzaangors (180)
- 2x Pair of Savage Blades
- 4x Savage Greatblade
- 4x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield

Units
10 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (50)
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (160)

Total: 990/1000

 

 

Or list 2...

 

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300)

Battleline
10 x Kairic Acolytes (140)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (140)

Units
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40)
3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (160)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (160)

Battalions
Witchfyre Coven (60)

Total: 1000/2000

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Ran this today.

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300)
- General
- Trait: Incorporeal Form - Tzeentch Daemon Hero
- Artefact: Wellspring of Arcane Might 
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (140)
- Runestaff
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
- Artefact: Timeslip Pendant 
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
Tzaangor Shaman (120)
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Gaunt Summoner (100)
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
10 x Tzaangors (180)
- 4x Savage Greatblade
- 6x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield
10 x Tzaangors (180)
- 4x Savage Greatblade
- 6x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield

Units
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40)
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (320)
3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (160)

Battalions
Tzaangor Coven (40)

Scenery
Balewind Vortex (100)

Total: 1980/2000
 

Did VERY well.

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Been trying to find a use for Enlightened.

I was thinking a unit of 6, with Skyshoal Coven and a Fatemaster with Windthief.  Mystic Shield or any buff spell you want on them.  Skyshoal + Windthief both units up.  Then move their 16".  Then charge.  Pile in with the Fatemaster first, so your enemy has to Pile In.  This'll give the Enlightened their rerolls.  If you have a Shaman, try to get them within the 9".  Since Prenatural Enhancement goes off at the start of the Combat Phase, you can have an Enlightened or two back slightly in the Charge phase, get the buff at the start of the Combat phase, then Pile In.

Any weight behind this, or just a gimmick that'll get squashed fast?  You may need a Mystic Shield and whatever the Tzeentch shield spell is for the Enlightened not to auto die.  Buuut, 4+ Save rerolling 1-3s (since you likely won't have spent any DD yet on the first turn)?

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2 hours ago, Goodwin said:

Been trying to find a use for Enlightened.

I was thinking a unit of 6, with Skyshoal Coven and a Fatemaster with Windthief.  Mystic Shield or any buff spell you want on them.  Skyshoal + Windthief both units up.  Then move their 16".  Then charge.  Pile in with the Fatemaster first, so your enemy has to Pile In.  This'll give the Enlightened their rerolls.  If you have a Shaman, try to get them within the 9".  Since Prenatural Enhancement goes off at the start of the Combat Phase, you can have an Enlightened or two back slightly in the Charge phase, get the buff at the start of the Combat phase, then Pile In.

Any weight behind this, or just a gimmick that'll get squashed fast?  You may need a Mystic Shield and whatever the Tzeentch shield spell is for the Enlightened not to auto die.  Buuut, 4+ Save rerolling 1-3s (since you likely won't have spent any DD yet on the first turn)?

 its going to depend on what you charge. The fate master imo is terrible and has no place in an army with tzangors. His command doesnt even work on them. instead you could charge both skyfires and enlightened and use the skyfires first for rerolls then reroll the enlightened second. would be way more damage. Lol the fate master doesnt even have the d3 damage disc the tzaangors ride. he is so bad.

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11 hours ago, Goodwin said:

Been trying to find a use for Enlightened.

I was thinking a unit of 6, with Skyshoal Coven and a Fatemaster with Windthief.  Mystic Shield or any buff spell you want on them.  Skyshoal + Windthief both units up.  Then move their 16".  Then charge.  Pile in with the Fatemaster first, so your enemy has to Pile In.  This'll give the Enlightened their rerolls.  If you have a Shaman, try to get them within the 9".  Since Prenatural Enhancement goes off at the start of the Combat Phase, you can have an Enlightened or two back slightly in the Charge phase, get the buff at the start of the Combat phase, then Pile In.

Any weight behind this, or just a gimmick that'll get squashed fast?  You may need a Mystic Shield and whatever the Tzeentch shield spell is for the Enlightened not to auto die.  Buuut, 4+ Save rerolling 1-3s (since you likely won't have spent any DD yet on the first turn)?

I want to like the Enlightened, but I also want to like the Flamer units. And like the Flamer units, I can not see much use for Enlightened in a world where Skyfires exist. The melee capability between Skyfires and Enlightened is of a negligible difference, while the ranged capability is a huge difference (very good vs. none at all). Additionally Skyfires have the better special rule for close combat, rewarding them for striking first (which is already good) vs. rewarding for striking after the enemy (usually bad).

Unfortunately, the only point I see to Enlightened (especially when they cost the same number of points as Skyfires), is to unlock specific Battalion bonuses that call for their inclusion.

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Well, my first tournament coming up.  Thought I'd see if I can get any thoughts on it!

1500, using 2k requirements/limits

 

Curseling (G) -  (Magical Supremacy, Paradox Shield, Treacherous Bond)

Tzaangor Shaman -  (Soul Drought, Fold Reality)

Tzaangor Shaman -  (Glimpse)

Pink Horrors x10  -  (Fold Reality)

Chaos Marauders x10 - (MoT)

Tzaangor x30 -  (Maxxed for Mutants and Great Blades)

Enlightened x3

Skyfire x3

 

Tzaangor Coven

1480/2000

 

I'm wondering if it'd be worth dropping a Shaman for either a Chaos Sorceror Lord or a Herald on/off Disc.  I'd still have one Shaman to buff the Skyfires and the Curseling to buff the Tzaangor.  The Herald spells seem fancy, and the one on foot can cast twice if on a 9+, which with his Tome should be easier.  However, it makes my one Shaman a little more important to keep around for Boon and Skyfires.

Hope someone can set me on the path to VICTORY!

 

Edit: I'm actualy leaning now towards Shield of Fate instead of Fold Reality for the Shaman.  Especially early on, this'll give me rerolls of 1-3, and if I can get Mystic Shield, then the Tzaangor will have a 4+ with rerolls.  Sounds fancier then having two wizards with Fold Reality, and only small units of Skyfire/Enlightened.

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I like the Chaos Sorceror Lord for many reasons, mainly he really augments your blob of Tzaangors.

Giving them re-roll's on all 1's (hit, wound, save), ontop of whatever else you can stack just makes them incredibly brutal. He can also impart another re-roll for armor saves to someone nearby who could use it. He is on 32mm, fits right into the unit for screening purposes. If you make him the general you can give him a solid command trait and just further amp up your Tgors!

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Thanks for the response!

I do worry that I have too many eggs in that Tzaangor basket, but it should be a fairly nasty unit - especially if I can get an attack in the Hero phase as well.

I'm still unsure if the Tzaangor Coven is worth it though.  Being forced to take those Enlightened kind of hurts.  Its a shame they aren't all that swell from what people are saying.

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One point about both Enlightened and Skyfires is that you roll a single D3 for the number of attacks and not one per model (Hints and Tips - this has not been changed recently - they changed this for damage only). This makes Skyfires' melee damage a lot less reliable (as 9 Skyfires would do 9, 18 or 27 attacks instead of roughly 18). 

Skyfires are likely going to get repointed - I actively despise the unit, because it is giving DoT a reputation of being overpowered filth and will likely mean that other parts of the army get nerfed (ambiguous rules will be interpreted against them - notably Destiny Dice on mortal wounds - which sounds so much more powerful than it is). The Split rule is another area where DoT could be hammered by FAQs to the point where they cannot take a summoning pool and a unit of Pink Horrors together. It's a lot easier for TOs to issue house rules than to repoint units, e.g. these:

Perhaps more immediately Skyfire Spam is staring down plenty of hard counters in the Stormcast book, which severely mitigate their shooting. I can see Raptor spam protected by the combo of Artefacts, Traits and Prayers crushing Skyfires.

I agree that Mystic Shield plus Shiekd of Fate plus a large unit should make Enlightened viable.

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