The last sentence says that re-rolls happen before modifiers are applied (positive or negative). So what this means is that every time a save is rolled, the following steps occur:
Roll dice.
Determine if a reroll happens.
Add modifiers.
Determine final results.
So, when you don't have re-rolls, the calculation is very straightforward. Rerolls seem to be a different beast. So, for example, lets take a Disk Lord that re-rolls 1's and has a +2 to his save. He would:
Roll a save dice.
If the result is a 1 on a dice, he rerolls it. If not, move on to step 3.
+2 is added to the dice result.
Determine if the dice result is 4 or higher to see if he succeeded.
Fairly straightforward. Now, lets give that same Disk Lord a re-roll to all saves.
Rolls a save dice.
If the result is a 1-3 on a dice, he rerolls it (wording will determine if units must re-roll failed saves, or "may" re-roll failed saves). If not, move on to step 3.
+2 is added to the dice result.
Determine if the dice result is 4 or higher to see if he succeeded.
Still fairly straightforward. Now, lets take the Tzeentch item that grants the Disk Lord an additional +2 on saves but says he must re-roll successes. Now he:
Rolls a save dice.
If the result is a 1-3 on a dice, move on to step 3. If a 4+, which would be a success, he must re-roll it.
+4 is added to the dice result (+2 from his normal ability, +2 from the Tzeentch Paradoxical shield item).
Determine if the dice result is 4 or higher to see if he succeeded.
What this seems to imply is that, with no rerolls, the Disk Lord fails on a 1, succeeds on a 2 and 3, and must re-roll on a 4+. On the reroll, he will succeed on 2+. If this Lord has re-roll 1s, then he re-rolls 1s and 4-6s, and is just successful on 2s and 3s.
This is obviously important for any rerolls, including hits and wounds, because this means that more of these dice may need to be rerolled (which would be good if you are fishing for higher numbers to trigger abilities).
Is this correct?
Edit: So, it seems any time you have bonuses to a roll and re-roll all failed rolls coupled with an ability to activate on a 6+ that things really get interesting. Here is an example where this might be significant and used for an advantage.
Take for example a Plague Monks that wound one 4+ with their Foetid Blades. Imagine that the Plague Monk is getting +2 to Wound from nearby Plague Priests, has reroll all wounds from a Plague Furnace , and is in the Pestilent Clawpack battalion that says on a Wound of 6+ they do double damage. Normally, we would consider reroll failed wounds would only apply on natural 1s since you have +2 to wound (thus successfully wounding on a 2+ effectively) and you would trigger the double damage on 4+ of the die roll. Under this insight, I could opt to still reroll 2s and 3s, even though they would be successes with modifiers, to fish for more 4+s which will do double damage since rerolls are determined to occur before the modifiers are applied. All of my rerolls would still land on 2+ but rerolling 2s and 3s gives me another bite at that double damage I get from die results of 4+. This is just one implication of how this would work. It would work similarly for Stormcast effected by a nearby Lord Castellant's Lantern who are wanting to fish for healing on save rolls and anyone else with a reroll all ability, bonuses, and a triggering ability. Hope this is a bit clearer than my original example.
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Thomas Lyons
So, hear me out. Here are the save rules:
The last sentence says that re-rolls happen before modifiers are applied (positive or negative). So what this means is that every time a save is rolled, the following steps occur:
So, when you don't have re-rolls, the calculation is very straightforward. Rerolls seem to be a different beast. So, for example, lets take a Disk Lord that re-rolls 1's and has a +2 to his save. He would:
Fairly straightforward. Now, lets give that same Disk Lord a re-roll to all saves.
Still fairly straightforward. Now, lets take the Tzeentch item that grants the Disk Lord an additional +2 on saves but says he must re-roll successes. Now he:
What this seems to imply is that, with no rerolls, the Disk Lord fails on a 1, succeeds on a 2 and 3, and must re-roll on a 4+. On the reroll, he will succeed on 2+. If this Lord has re-roll 1s, then he re-rolls 1s and 4-6s, and is just successful on 2s and 3s.
This is obviously important for any rerolls, including hits and wounds, because this means that more of these dice may need to be rerolled (which would be good if you are fishing for higher numbers to trigger abilities).
Is this correct?
Edit: So, it seems any time you have bonuses to a roll and re-roll all failed rolls coupled with an ability to activate on a 6+ that things really get interesting. Here is an example where this might be significant and used for an advantage.
Take for example a Plague Monks that wound one 4+ with their Foetid Blades. Imagine that the Plague Monk is getting +2 to Wound from nearby Plague Priests, has reroll all wounds from a Plague Furnace , and is in the Pestilent Clawpack battalion that says on a Wound of 6+ they do double damage. Normally, we would consider reroll failed wounds would only apply on natural 1s since you have +2 to wound (thus successfully wounding on a 2+ effectively) and you would trigger the double damage on 4+ of the die roll. Under this insight, I could opt to still reroll 2s and 3s, even though they would be successes with modifiers, to fish for more 4+s which will do double damage since rerolls are determined to occur before the modifiers are applied. All of my rerolls would still land on 2+ but rerolling 2s and 3s gives me another bite at that double damage I get from die results of 4+. This is just one implication of how this would work. It would work similarly for Stormcast effected by a nearby Lord Castellant's Lantern who are wanting to fish for healing on save rolls and anyone else with a reroll all ability, bonuses, and a triggering ability. Hope this is a bit clearer than my original example.
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