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Duardin list help.


Johnmasters1234

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Hi All

Recently picked up AoS but played a lot of 8th and I've decided to pick up my favourite race the Dwarfs    Duardin ;) 

Now they don't seem to be the most popular army and I'm struggling to write a pure Duardin 2000pt list. 

A list I am toying with is below. Just feels so slow. Worried about objective grabbing. Also want to be able to hit hard and hold my own in combat. 

Grudgebound Warthrong 60

Warden king  120

Runelord 80

Unforged 100

10xwarriors great weapons and runic standard and musician 100

10xwarriors great weapons and runic standard and musician 100

20x Hammerers 400

20x quarrellers 240

10x Longbeards 140

20x Irondrakes 440

10x miners 120

gyrocopter 80

 

Now I'm sure this is optimal or even good, so any advice would be great. Do I need cannons? Should I reduce the units for more points elsewhere? Do I need more miner units and gyros for objective grabbing? Am I trying to do too much in all areas and should I focus on more shooting or more mobility and combat?? Basically please help haha 

 

Pure Duardin and dispossessed at the moment guys and girls.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Johnmasters1234 said:

Hi All

Recently picked up AoS but played a lot of 8th and I've decided to pick up my favourite race the Dwarfs    Duardin ;) 

Now they don't seem to be the most popular army and I'm struggling to write a pure Duardin 2000pt list. 

A list I am toying with is below. Just feels so slow. Worried about objective grabbing. Also want to be able to hit hard and hold my own in combat. 

Grudgebound Warthrong 60

Warden king  120

Runelord 80

Unforged 100

10xwarriors great weapons and runic standard and musician 100

10xwarriors great weapons and runic standard and musician 100

20x Hammerers 400

20x quarrellers 240

10x Longbeards 140

20x Irondrakes 440

10x miners 120

gyrocopter 80

 

Now I'm sure this is optimal or even good, so any advice would be great. Do I need cannons? Should I reduce the units for more points elsewhere? Do I need more miner units and gyros for objective grabbing? Am I trying to do too much in all areas and should I focus on more shooting or more mobility and combat?? Basically please help haha 

 

Pure Duardin and dispossessed at the moment guys and girls.

 

 

sorry just noticed the list you make wont work as you need 3 units from the hammerers, iron breakers and/or iron drakes you only have 2 units currently.

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If you are looking for competitive I think Bimli has posted some viable lists here and on other unnammed but popular forums. As you may have guessed from his post, they use gryph hounds and more compendium than just miners ;)

As for the 3 "elite" issie I imagine you would just run the irondrakes as 2 units to get the 2 torpedoes. Other than gaining rend benefit on more models, they dont particularly have any reason to stick together. (Honestly the hammerers dont either but they would benefit more from consolidating the bonus rend or bonus save, sine they could use it in your combat phase and the enemy's). 

If you are looking for just some quick general tips, then you could try to include Bugman for teleporting rangers. You could bring Grimm for the 26" range. 30 quarellers vs 20 have a 10 wound buffer on their bonus which will protect against a d6 damage spell or stonehorn shooting, etc. If you are bringing Grimm anyway, you could consider artillery. The bolt thrower is one of those unexpectedly powerful pieces. Grudge throwers are less surprising but still awesome. 

One last thing to think about would be taking ironbreakers instead of hammerers. Your drakes will have massive damage output and so havin more defensive ironbreakers could better protect them than hammerers. 

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ok here we go... mario cart :P

dispossessed throng 60

ungrim 100

warrior x 10 - GW shield full command 

warrior x 10 - GW shield full command 

Long beards x 10 - GW shield full command

hammerers x 10 - full command

quarrelers x 30 - full command

quarrelers x 30 - full command

Outside of war throng

Rune lord

rune lord

bugman

gyrph hound

gryph hound

quarrlers x 20 - bugmans rangers full command (basically your point grabs and surprise shooting)

So you basically have 5 drops so a good chance of choosing who goes first. the hounds make sure deep striking wont be easy as the dog are sticking with the 30 man unit of quarrelers.

 warriors are your cannon fodder and long beard are your support and the rune lords give rend mostly to your quarrelers. The unit of hammerers are a small but hard punch when needed.

Bugman will teleport your 1 unit of quarrelers (bugmans rangers) while he himself does not need to be place close to them he will pop up close to your units (mainly ungrim) to heal ungrim or make your units +1 bravery and add a lil shooting.

quarrelers, warriors, LB, hammerer, ungrim will get the benefit of re-rolling 1's to hit while your units wont be running away due to the war throng ability + order ability of re-roll. your looking at 160 shots and the quarreler are not to shabby in close combat especially having rend and the potential of the leader ability of ungrim. That being said you may want to make your leader a rune lord just to be able to give a trait and unit the LB grumble ability to let ungrim when needed use his leader ability so your rune lord is free to use the no run leader ability.

In fact the more I think of this list the more I want to make it my staple..... hmmm no war machines.....

Oh ungrim is a beast for 6 wounds 4+ and 6++ rend -2 and 2 wounds wounding things on a 2+ that have multi wounds not to mention re-rolls of 1 to hit and when he dies have a possibility to explode.... also lets not forget bugman can heal him.

So what do you think? yes I know I have a ton of quarrelers you can also switch out a unit for thunderers if you really want but id go with quarrelers :)

I should add if you really dont want the gryph hound take them out for another rune lord.... I wouldnt but hey thats just me

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List looks good mate. Punchy when it needs to be and counter hitty at other times. 

Painting 60 quarrellers upsets me haha but needs must! 

There's a lot of good synergy in the list and a big fan of all the shooting! 

I'll need to have a look at the Gryph hounds warscroll and yeah I'd prefer no war machines not a fan of static targets for lightning striking SCE having fun with my war machines 

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I like it! I need to go buy like 50 more quarrellers now so I can try it out! Hello ebay... 

I do have one question though. Your lists often seem to send 20 quarrellers as Bugman's, but it seems to me that anything 20 could do, 30 would do better? Wouldnt it make more sense to have 30 go with bugman, and keep 20 back with your main force as that will have protection sine their bonus is the most in danger of being lost?

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the reason I do 20 is cause I want to maximize my shooting turn 1 bugmans rangers come in from turn 2 onwards Id rather 120 shots in the enemy's face instead of 100 shots. That's just my preference. Also if you lose 1 dude from bugmans rangers you lose the double tap where if they are bugmans dude they are guaranteed to get the 40 shots!

Maximization! :D

Oh and buying quarrlers I converted them all from my warriors boxes I have so many warriors all I did was add a crossbow to their backs so hand weapons and shields with a crossbow strapped to their backs. I did this cause in 8th when dwarfs came out I built so many hand weapons and shield Warriors then found out they were just worse than the gw ones so I kept them for conversions that when I learnt about quarrlers = auto add for dwarfs it was a simple but effective conversion :)

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52 minutes ago, Johnmasters1234 said:

List looks good mate. Punchy when it needs to be and counter hitty at other times. 

Painting 60 quarrellers upsets me haha but needs must! 

There's a lot of good synergy in the list and a big fan of all the shooting! 

I'll need to have a look at the Gryph hounds warscroll and yeah I'd prefer no war machines not a fan of static targets for lightning striking SCE having fun with my war machines 

Gryph hounds will take care of the sce strike;) if any army would have some pets it would be dwarfs :P

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This seemed like some interesting lists. They have in-depth discussion on the choices. The 2k list is not 100% pure duardin though. 

140 Belegar

220 Thorgrim

160 Dwarf Lord on Shieldbearers

100 Ungrim

320 Celestial Hurricanum

240 Luminarch of Hysh

300 30 Warriors

140 10 Longbeards

140 10 Longbeards

120 10 Slayers

120 10 Miners

 

 I really recommend watching the video, for some interesting discussion on the synergies of the faction.

Happy listbuilding!

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On January 30, 2017 at 6:41 PM, Bimli said:

I think that is an older list prior to the new meta. I don't think you can use the dwarf lord on shield bearers any more? It hard to find good lists via youtube cause those are usually casual play. 

It is certainly an older list so I didn't take into account the current teleporting/alphastrike extravaganza that is the current meta.  If I were to rebuild the hyper shooting list, I would introduce a whole host of gryph hounds.  They would resolve any set-up alpha strike issues (since Skyre-lists and SCEs setting up any where near this gun line would explode from the artillery upon setup).  The set-up of this ranged army already deals with the insane movement alpha strike lists since they will crash into the screening dwarf warrior line.

Regarding Compendium units, you can use them as long as your local community allows it.  I haven't ran into an event here in the States that has ever banned Compendium units (so I used them in my lists, as the one mentioned in the video).

I've actually just put an all-Duardin list together this morning that mixes Fyreslayers and Dispossessed.  I haven't tested it yet but I'd love feedback:
 

  • 160     Dwarf Lord on Shieldbearers (Quicksilver Potion, Legenday Ftr): Grants Dispossessed +1 to wound against a unit. 
  • 220     Thorgrim: Grants all Dispossessed within 8" +1 attack in close combat. Grants rerolls to all hits against a single unit for the entire game.
  • 100     Ungrim: Grants a single Dispossessed unit +1 to hit and wound.
  • 80       Runepriest: Prayer may increase rend by 1 or give 6++ ward save.
  • 80       Runepriest: Prayer may increase rend by 1 or give 6++ ward save.
  • 100     Auric Runesmiter: Allows deep strike deployment for a Fyreslayer unit.  Grants re-roll all failed wounds to a Fyreslayer unit.
  • 300     30 Dwarf Warriors w/Great Weapons and Shields
  • 400     25 Vulkite Berserkers w/Axe Shield
  • 140     10 Longbeards w/Great Weapons and Shields 
  • 220     10 Irondrakes   
  • 120     10 Miners                               
  • 60       5 Slayers 

This list is pretty straight forward all things considered.  The Runesmiter/Vulkite Berserkers as well as the miners set up in reserve.  The Warrior block advances with hero support.  The Slayers screen as the vanguard; units that blow them up will take 2-3 mortal wounds for their efforts.  Longbeards provide a hedge around the hero block and allow the heroes to activate all of their command abilities.  Irondrakes provide artillery support where needed.  The hero block can buff a single unit to have +1 melee attack, +1 to hit, +2 to wound, and increase rend by 2.  This means that even the lowly Dwarf Warriors will be sitting at (per model): 2 attacks, 3+ to hit, 1+ to wound, -3 rend, 1 damage each.  Everyone in the bubble will be getting +1 to wound against a targeted unit, +1 attack in the combat phase, and against a particular unit at the beginning of the game you'll have perma-reroll on hits.  Even Irondrakes become scary in melee (not to mention the possible -3 rend on those Drakeguns when needed).  The scariest part of this list is actually the Dwarflord who goes to (when needed) 4 attacks at 2+/+1+/-4 rend/3 damage with a quicksilver pile-in.  

For auxiliary support, you have 2 deep striking units for dropping on objectives and grabbing strategic points on the battlefield.  The 25 Vulkite Berserkers will deep strike at 9" and have a better than 50% charge chance with their musician. They are your tankiest unit with a 4+ save in close combat and a 4++ ward for the first 5 wounds.  Even though their role is to be hard to shift, they'll have 50 attacks at 4+/4+ (rerolls from Runesmiter)/-1/1 damage, which is much better than Plaguebearers or other hard to shift units.  The Miners can either drop in to support either block of troops, or take a neglected point.  If they are near your main block, they'll get a splash of a bunch of the buffs granted by the hero bubble.

Finally, given the shifting meta towards a stronger magic scene (Thanks Tzeentch!), you'll have a bunch of units that ignore spells on a 5+ and two unbinds at +2 from the Runepriests.

This isn't a perfect Duardin list but one that I think has potential in the current meta.  

Edit: After having pondered on this a bit, I think I would actually drop Thorgrim (220) and the Irondrakes (220) then pick up Belegar (140), a block of 15 slayers (180), and another drop of 10 Miners (120).  Belegar grants the bonus attack against a single other key unit to all units attacking it (so less effective than Thorgrim, but similar).  The Miners become a second utility drop with rend and ranged attacks (plus more bodies).  The Slayers become another potential hammer unit that, when buffed, are at (per model) 4 attacks, 2+/2+/-2 rend/1 damage that is immune to battleshock if it can see a monster and does a mortal wound on a 4+ every time a model dies.  The threat this unit would bring to the table is certainly disproportionate to its points cost.  I'd consider adding another unit of them if I could find another 180 points.

 

 

 

 

 

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I love it! I was wondering about the Irondrakes myself (i always strugle when they are outside a Grudgebound War Throng), but you edited the list before I could come up with a good alternative. It seems suspiciously light on shooting for a dwarf list, but i suppose technically, between the miners and Fyreslayers, you have 46 shooting attacks (it just happens that none of them can actually shoot the turn you pop up).

I really want to go try this now!

edit: my only question would be if it is worth taking the relic blade rather than the quicksilver potion? Since he is going to live in the "hero bubble" it seems unlikely that you would ever encounter a situation where you were worried he would die unless he attacked first AND it was the opponents combat phase)

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Thinking a bit more about it, alternatively if you had the slayer models, you could drop the warriors for another unit of 15 Slayers and grab another 10 Longbeards as your third battleline.  A second unit of longbeards gives all units in 8" radius reroll to all failed wounds.  The longbeards also have a better base save (4+) than the warriors and reroll failed saves.  The second block of slayers is immune to battleshock and has better attacks (although lacks the base -1 rend of the warriors).  That list would look something like this:

  • 160     Dwarf Lord on Shieldbearers (Quicksilver Potion, Legenday Ftr)
  • 140     Belegar
  • 80       Runepriest
  • 80       Runepriest
  • 100     Ungrim
  • 100     Auric Runesmiter
  • 400     25 Vulkite Berserkers                                                
  • 140     10 Longbeards
  • 140     10 Longbeards
  • 60       5 Slayers
  • 180     15 Slayers
  • 180     15 Slayers
  • 120     10 Miners
  • 120     10 Miners

Another possible tweak would be to drop down the Vulkites to 20 models and use those 80 points to upgrade Belegar back to Thorgrim.  This gets you the reroll all attacks against a single unit (probably a huge block of something or a key monster) and the 8" broadcast extra attack bubble.  This adjustment would be super tempting as well.  

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I suppose if anyone complained, you could call him a regular warden king, then switch one of the longbeards back to warriors and then: bring 30 vulkite instead of 25, Or a gyro, or also go back to just one unit of miners and push the third set of slayers to 15. Or you could only drop the 5 slayer unit and bring back Throgrim! (although with this option you then have to make a runelord the general with reckless, and give the other RL something like the talisman). 

If someone says you cant have the lord on shield bearers I almost feel like it gives you more options rather than less, lol.

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21 hours ago, Thomas Lyons said:

Thinking a bit more about it, alternatively if you had the slayer models, you could drop the warriors for another unit of 15 Slayers and grab another 10 Longbeards as your third battleline.  A second unit of longbeards gives all units in 8" radius reroll to all failed wounds.  The longbeards also have a better base save (4+) than the warriors and reroll failed saves.  The second block of slayers is immune to battleshock and has better attacks (although lacks the base -1 rend of the warriors).  That list would look something like this:

  • 160     Dwarf Lord on Shieldbearers (Quicksilver Potion, Legenday Ftr)
  • 140     Belegar
  • 80       Runepriest
  • 80       Runepriest
  • 100     Ungrim
  • 100     Auric Runesmiter
  • 400     25 Vulkite Berserkers                                                
  • 140     10 Longbeards
  • 140     10 Longbeards
  • 60       5 Slayers
  • 180     15 Slayers
  • 180     15 Slayers
  • 120     10 Miners
  • 120     10 Miners

Another possible tweak would be to drop down the Vulkites to 20 models and use those 80 points to upgrade Belegar back to Thorgrim.  This gets you the reroll all attacks against a single unit (probably a huge block of something or a key monster) and the 8" broadcast extra attack bubble.  This adjustment would be super tempting as well.  

I think this is a fun list. But I would drop the lord on shield bearers and belgar, and drop all the slayers and get some shooting. I know your trying to take advantage of the LB rules but its not always that easy. I try to make lists as all rounders so this is the type of list that will do good against non shooting armies.

But against shooting lists of lists that can "deep strike" this list may suffer. as you have 2 units that can pop up where needed but still 9" charge is tough to roll even with a reroll of 1 dice.

Im one of those players that wants to rule out as much possible luck. For this list to work you will need the berzerkers to charge if they fail that would suck as they will have to foot slog from here on in so fast armies like orks, orgers elves, monsters ect will play keep away. Shooting armies will aim at the naked slayers. If the slayers go down your army will not be hitting that hard. Also folks know how to set up to make sure your 9" teleport does not work as planned (competitive folks) 

also with msu style which this list seems to be horde like armies (more cost efficient) may a well pose a threat

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13 hours ago, Bimli said:

The dwarf lord on shield bearers I don't think you can use this as per recent faq if a model was replaced on the app it seems they are no longer valid :(

There are specific points for the Dwarf Lord on Shieldbearers model in the GHB, which says it is a separate thing.  This means that it is a distinct unit in the GHB with assigned points.  With or without the app, this means that it is legal in Matched Play currently (or at least as legal as any compendium units are).

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8 minutes ago, Thomas Lyons said:

There are specific points for the Dwarf Lord on Shieldbearers model in the GHB, which says it is a separate thing.  This means that it is a distinct unit in the GHB with assigned points.  With or without the app, this means that it is legal in Matched Play currently (or at least as legal as any compendium units are).

589361d88b97b_IMG_5698copy.png.fd5e1fdeca3e6bc027f59c390586bf5f.png
  

I agree but there was a recent faq that stated if the unit is no longer available due to something else being in its place in this case the warden king on foot. You can no longer use it. So I would think tourneys would follow this.

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Just now, Bimli said:

I agree but there was a recent faq that stated if the unit is no longer available due to something else being in its place in this case the warden king on foot. You can no longer use it. So I would think tourneys would follow this.

Agreed, if it is the same model.  But it isn't.  This is a different model with a different base size, different weapon loadouts, and different stats.  Hence a different stat line.  If anything, Belegar would be the one no longer usable considering that the current Warden King uses the Belegar model. 

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15 minutes ago, Thomas Lyons said:

Agreed, if it is the same model.  But it isn't.  This is a different model with a different base size, different weapon loadouts, and different stats.  Hence a different stat line.  If anything, Belegar would be the one no longer usable considering that the current Warden King uses the Belegar model. 

but on the app belegar still has a profile where the dwarf lord on the app no longer has a profile.

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Just now, Bimli said:

but on the app belegar still has a profile where the dwarf lord on the app no longer has a profile.

The app also has only one Gaunt Summoner although we know that three profiles exist that are all different and all legal to play.  The app is not the golden standard to go by.  

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