LeGinger Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Hey guys, I'm brand new to Death and just finished building a FEC army. I've been browsing different set ups for my ghoul kings, and am surprised that I don't see a lot of GKoTG with the Red Fury trait. Doing 6 or more wounds with a GKoTG seems like it will happen frequently, which makes Red Fury trigger reliably. Am I missing something? A free trait that lets a beast of a character attack twice seems like an auto include, yet a lot of people take other things. Am I missing something? Or is it more common then I've seen on just posted lists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arinnoor Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Uping deathless minions to 5 plus helps more imo. Adding his spell makes the gkotg really durable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deynon Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 18 minutes ago, LeGinger said: Hey guys, I'm brand new to Death and just finished building a FEC army. I've been browsing different set ups for my ghoul kings, and am surprised that I don't see a lot of GKoTG with the Red Fury trait. Doing 6 or more wounds with a GKoTG seems like it will happen frequently, which makes Red Fury trigger reliably. Am I missing something? A free trait that lets a beast of a character attack twice seems like an auto include, yet a lot of people take other things. Am I missing something? Or is it more common then I've seen on just posted lists? I fond red fury better in A DZ sincerely. Anyway quite a lot depend on the rooster you create. Personally I prefer a more solid way so gain the ruler of the night to male the general and who is around him more solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 A lot of folks highly value ruler of the night. While ruler of the night is quite good. I believe it's best when used with lots of infantry type units where you get a lot of value out of the save. Red fury is really strong and does alot of damage making your big bad generals able to go to toe to toe with just about anything. I think one of the weaknesses and maybe the main reason alot of folks don't like it. is you lose a lot of power if that red fury wielding monster gets picked off in shoot early on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayniac Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 In my opinion Red Fury is better on the zombie dragon because it's attacks are slightly more offensive. On the terrorgheist I prefer ruler of the night since while its attacks are nasty it seems you want to use it more as a support / defensive piece because of the spell which gives you double saves on a key in it or lets you put it on something and have it be more than 10 inches away from the general. Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorfate Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Ruler of the night is nearly an autoinclude trait for us for competitive games. With it you halve your casualty rate around your general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelmaster Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 47 minutes ago, Razorfate said: Ruler of the night is nearly an autoinclude trait for us for competitive games. With it you halve your casualty rate around your general. Um, no. You reduce your casualty rate by one-fifth, not half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGinger Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 Thanks for the replies guys! Right now my list is ghoul patrol, big block of horrors with king on foot with varghulf for support, then a GKoTG and GKoZD, both with cloaks. I plan on cloaking the dragons quickly to alpha strike the biggest threat, so I think Ruler of the Night will be situational and not provide that much of a bubble. How is exactly does Red Fury resolve? Do I pile on and attack again, or does it basically just double my attacks? The reason I ask is say I do 10 wounds, could my opponent just clear out three inches and make my attacks from Red Fury obselete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 3 hours ago, Razorfate said: Ruler of the night is nearly an autoinclude trait for us for competitive games. With it you halve your casualty rate around your general. as @Squirrelmaster says it's not quite that good... It would have been more correct to say you double the number of saved wounds due to deathless minion. Red fury is powerful in that in most cases a good offense tends to trump a good defense. This is because by killing enemy models they are no longer killing you. This isn't always the case as a mystic shield on a stardrake has insane value due to how rules interact. Ruler of the night is taken a lot i'd say not because it's good, but because it feels quite good. Ruler of the night works most effectively against high effective wound count armies. This is to say your chances of saving against damage through armor times your wounds. Though against high mortal wound count armies actualy wounds are the only thing you can truly consider. As such as was said above the GKoTG is better with ruler of the night while GKoZD synergizes better with redfury. But if you ahve both you can pick Getting what is almost an assured VDM on your Big bad every turn specially with cloak on popping in your enemies face is very powerful, and lets the models swing well above it's weight class. 1 hour ago, LeGinger said: Thanks for the replies guys! Right now my list is ghoul patrol, big block of horrors with king on foot with varghulf for support, then a GKoTG and GKoZD, both with cloaks. I plan on cloaking the dragons quickly to alpha strike the biggest threat, so I think Ruler of the Night will be situational and not provide that much of a bubble. How is exactly does Red Fury resolve? Do I pile on and attack again, or does it basically just double my attacks? The reason I ask is say I do 10 wounds, could my opponent just clear out three inches and make my attacks from Red Fury obselete? Yes your opponent can clear out threes eachs and make your red furry attacks obselete. But not: you can fly, Three inches is quite far to clear, and three most likely you'll get the charge or your opponent will have to pile in first. As if you charge such that you bring two separate units in range you can make all your first set of attacks at one unit, and then your second set at the other unit. Thus, preventing some one negating your ability to get attacks in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorfate Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 5 hours ago, Squirrelmaster said: Um, no. You reduce your casualty rate by one-fifth, not half. You have 1 in 6 chance to save your model from a wound or mortal wound because of Deathless Minions command trait. With ruler of the night trait, you double the chance to save the wound to 2 in 6 so you halve your casualty rate. I should be more specific about my logic though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelmaster Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 29 minutes ago, Razorfate said: You have 1 in 6 chance to save your model from a wound or mortal wound because of Deathless Minions command trait. With ruler of the night trait, you double the chance to 2 in 6 so you halve your casualty rate. I should be more specific about my logic though... No, your casualty rate is the number of saves you fail. Doubling your number of successes does not halve your number of failures. You go from failing 5 in 6 to failing 4 in 6 — a reduction of one-fifth. Nothing in this scenario is halved. It makes no sense to use the word "halve" here. 3 hours ago, mmimzie said: It would have been more correct to say you double the number of saved wounds due to deathless minion. More correct, but still not helpful. What's important is that attacks which would have averaged 5 wounds will now average 4. To put it another way, it will now take your opponent 5 wounds to accomplish what they previously would have achieved with 4. Your casualty rate has been reduced by one-fifth. Your effective wounds have been increased by one-quarter. However you want to phrase it, it's the number of saves you fail, not the number of saves you succeed, that determines your effectiveness. That's why +1 to hit is great for stuff that normally hits on a 6+, lousy if you normally hit on 3+, but a +1 save is the other way around — great if you already have a 3+, lousy if you only have a 6+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorfate Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 You are right, my mistake to use casualty rate, i have to use survivability rate. English is not my primary language and i am sorry for the mistake. Lets say you have 6 wounds on your zombi unit. With deathless minions you will survive with 1 zombie, and 5 of them will be killed. With ruler of the night you will have 2 zombies survive and 4 zombies will be death. The survivability will go from 1 to 2. Or you can say ****** zombies who need them. In this case, Ruler of Night is even more important to the durability of our elite and regernating unit such as blood knights. In one of my recent games versus dwarves, 30 something dwarven thunderers shoot at my 5 blood knights with a total of -3 rend value with buffs from his hq characters. Since i can not roll any armour save, it was only the deathless minion ability to roll for. I had suffered more than 20 wounds. And my unit's standard bearer was saved with 1 wound and in my turn i raised the hornblower and succesfully charged and killed one of his small dwarven warrior unit. Altough the standard bearer was dead the hornblower lives and i succesfully managed to hide him from harm's wat and that unit did not give point to my opponent where as 1-They succesfully abosrbed a massive amount of shooting for one turn 2-They killed one of my opponent's unit3-They did not give away anty points. This would not be the case if i had not taken Ruler of Night. I is not very important to kill more models with redfury, because so many units are very good in shooting phase (Stormfiends, Thunderers, Handgunners, Brettonian archers, Bolt throwers, Kurnous Hunters, etc, etc) that until we get cc with them they can wipe our most critical units with ease. Death faction's primary ability is being diffcult to kill and raise the slain models with standards and spells. If we go with the close combat mincer role, other factions such as khorne and destruction will outgun us in that department because since they lack raising, they are far better in combat compared to us. Since death has no faction book in the same power level with the top tier ones (Stormfiends with Kairos, Beastclaw Raiders, Groundmarines, Sylvaneth with 2+ rerollable and Kurnours hunters) we have to play with our strengths as much as possible. It is of course to play with what you like in friendly games or small metas, but i am suggesting that Ruler of the Night trait is the best in our book in the competitive enviroment . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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