Mixed Duardin 1 & 2K

[Matjb2512]

Hi guys,

 

Starting a fresh for 2017 having come into the hobby as a total newbie in 2016. With high hopes for Steamhead release later in the year these are my provisional list plans, any suggestions and discussion for list changes and general tactica are greatly appreciated (the only caveat being that I've no expectations of winning any seriously competitive tournies with this list). 

 

1000 points

 

Heroes -

Warden King - General

Runelord

Cogsmith

Auric Runesmiter 

Infantry - 

10x Warriors w/ 1H & Shield

10x Warriors w/ 2H axes

10x Thunderers

5x Hearthguard Bezerkers 

Warmachines -

Organ gun

 

Clocks in at 940 points, I've been toying with the idea of adding a Gryph-hound to either guard against alpha strike or run up the board to either score early points or act as a roadblock.

I realised to counteract the inherently slow nature of a dwarf list I'd need an alpha striking force of my own, I toyed with the idea of hunting down some Miners on eBay but I'd like to steer clear of compendium in general as I've seen tournaments that do not allow any compendium units, and I don't feel like the Miners are capable of achieving too much even though they are a cheap option for points. 

The Runesmiter and HB seem like the best option for a small Fyreslayers addition, although I'm unsure on what weapons are best to take.  I've thought about Auric Hearthguard instead but feel like after the initial benefit of being able to pop up and guarantee attacks in that turn with the ranged weapons they're a little lacklustre otherwise. 

For 2k

Heroes -

Warden King - General

Runelord

Cogsmith

Auric Runesmiter 

Infantry - 

10x Warriors w/ 1H & Shield

10x Warriors w/ 2H axes

10x Longbeards w/ 1H & Shield

10x Thunderers

30x Quarrelers 

10x Hammerers

5x Hearthguard Bezerkers 

Warmachines -

Organ gun

Cannon

Gyrocopter

Gyrocopter

 

This clocks in at 1980, so no room for the Gryph-hound here. I'm aware the general consensus is to take larger units than the minimum, but I feel like to field a versatile dwarf list you can't afford to flesh out any other than the quarrelers.

I'm not sure how much to expect from the gyro's, I certainly can't imagine them doing much damage but it looks like they're a very cheap option to provide mobility for snagging objectives and potentially sniping weaker heroes.

 

What are your guys thoughts and experiences with these units?

 

[Bimli]

why are you taking warriors and long beards with hand weapons and shields? when you can take them with great weapons and shields!

[Andreas]

For the 1000pt list, take 10 vulkites instead of 5 HB if you want some Fyreslayers. They will do a little more than 5 HB and you have the points. They can also reroll one charge dice when you pop up, which is important.

For 2000pt, skip them or take more. Maybe 20+ vulkites or 15+ Aurics if you want to tunnel. If you like HB, maybe use a battlesmith instead of a runesmiter and use them defencively to hold objectives in your zone.

[Matjb2512]

The purpose of the FS is the tunnelling ability, although I do like the models, and since I realised you can't actually buy the Runesmiter separately I think I'll drop them from the list as I'm not willing to drop £60 on a single hero since I won't make use of the Magmadroth. 

 

As for 1H vs 2H weapons the stats for 1H would result in more wounds against units for a poor save would they not? 

[Andreas]

When you say 1H or 2H are you talking about vulkites vs hearthguards (HB)?

HB hits a little bit harder but vulkites are generaly a better choice for their points IMO all things considered. 

Between the two HB weapon choices they are in most cases equvialent. The broadaxe synergies better with fyreslayer buffs (reroll wounds), the Poleaxe is better if you are up against 2+ save.

Between vulkites with shields or no shields, in general go for shields if you have a battlesmith otherwise go for two axes IMO.

[Matjb2512]

I was referring to the Bimli's point about the Dwarf Warriors actually.

 

But on the FS topic, I do see your point, the reason I swayed towards HB was given that ,although both units have a potential to make 10 attacks, with the HB there's a better chance of getting more models into range in their first charge which as the plan was to use them to tunnel in and hopefully wipe out squishy support heroes/artillery seemed like the most valuable option.

[Andreas]

Another tip regarding FS, if you want to buy a Runesmiter but not the magmadroth buy the Doomseeker and use/convert it to a Runesmiter. He has the same weapon option and looks simular. I use one in tournament settings and no one have had any issues with that.

[Bimli]

Regard the 1 handed s 2 handed the 2h weapons are just better with a 1h weapons your hitting on 3's wounds on 4's with a 2h weapon your hitting on 4's wounding on 3's with rend 1. The 2h weapons is just better no point for the 1h weapon for the warriors.

[Matjb2512]

2 minutes ago, Bimli said:

Regard the 1 handed s 2 handed the 2h weapons are just better with a 1h weapons your hitting on 3's wounds on 4's with a 2h weapon your hitting on 4's wounding on 3's with rend 1. The 2h weapons is just better no point for the 1h weapon for the warriors.

I've looked at the math of it and I disagree with this, against units with a poor/no save you're definitely better off with the 1H weapons.

[Bimli]

2 hours ago, Matjb2512 said:

I've looked at the math of it and I disagree with this, against units with a poor/no save you're definitely better off with the 1H weapons.

I think the only way the single hand weapon would be batter is if the unit has no saves

your basically looking at a the same amount of output for the most part.

let say 10 models 1h weapon needing 3's to hit and 4 to wound your looking at 7 hits and 3 or 4 wounds - if 4 wounds with no save 4 dead, with 6+ save 3 dead, with 5+ save 3 dead, 4+ save 2 dead, 3+ save 1 dead 2+ save 1 dead

then we have 10 models 2h weapon 4's to hit and 3's to wound your looking at 5 hits 3 wounds - 3 wounds no save 3 dead, 3 wounds 6+ save 3 dead, 3 wounds 5+ save 2 or 3 dead, 3 wound 4+ save 2 dead, 3 wounds 3+ save 1 or 2 dead, 2+ save 1 dead

So its basically falls on will the unit with 1h weapon do 3 or 4 wounds (if 4 wound then I agree if 3 wounds 2h is the way to go all up to the dice gods) its a close one but for the most part almost all units have a armor save and the ability to buff saves via magic and abilities ect to me puts the 2h weapon ahead.