Let's chat : Blades of Khorne!

[Killax]

36 minutes ago, Keldaur said:

30 bloodwarriors with 3 bronze flesh are not a deathstar, no matter how durable you make them, because they aren't that killy or have the reach for it to be. They are a big fat and slow anvil.  I think it is a cute idea, and probably fun to play a few times, but i don't see how 30 bloodwarriors in one unit will ever perform better than 2-3 bloodwarrior units, or combinations of units of bloodwarriors with khorgoraths, wrathmongers, etc.

No worries the discussion is only good. 

Here are the reasons as to why 30 Blood Warriors with multiple Bronzed Flesh buffs can be a Deathstar:
- Numbers; while they most certainly don't have a ton of Mortal wound attacks, these units do have 3 Gorecleavers, 1 of which is on the champion of the unit (but this is also why I think 30 Blood Warriors are still very expensive, as 30 Blood Warriors could also have been multiple units of 10, with multiple Champions). However them surviving and hitting back when some die most certainly generate enough wounds with the sheer number they can create due to Bloodsecrator and/or Bloodstoker buffs.
- Reach; while they are slow, the issue Slaughterpriests present for the opponent is Blood Bind. What this allows for, as above, is sucking oppossing units into this Deathstar. If we can't reach the opponent quickly, then it will have to come to us. This is exactly the same as adding reach, often even better as you can force your opponent to clog down into one area. 
- Offense; lastly, while Blood Warriors do not have the extreme output, they can bubble-wrap 2-3 Slaughterpriests extremely well which leads to opponents not being capable to deal with Slaughterpriests all to easily. Slaughterpriests offer a great source for Mortal Wound damage output. The longer they stick around the larger this issue becomes. With 30 Blood Warriors denying range to them you should be able to get a lot out of them. The cool thing remains Slaughterpriest know Blood Boil, Blood Bind and Brazen Rune, 3 B's of succes, leading to numbers counting due to Bronzed Flesh, leading to reach counting due to Blood Bind and offering offense due to Blood Boil.

While I agree with you that I'd personally prefer running multiples of smaller Blood Warrior units, I can't say this tactic is per default 'cute but bad' for the simple reason that Slaughterpriests are tucked in very well here, if played well. To the point where I'd say test it, before discounting it.  

In addition the only reason as to why I prefer playing multiple units personally is because the teleport-meta is bound to appear here too and the big downside of this army in particular is that it seems to have little to now awnsers to it. However in more cut and dry meta's I can see this block soacking up multiple units into it, thanks to Slaughterpriests.

Cheers,
 

[Keldaur]

- Numbers are fine, but that's not durability. Durability is the amount of time a deathstar can go with their damage output untouched and having a small footprints helps so your opponent can get less models into combat with you. That's why an stardrake is a deathstar, the density of the damage output is what matters the most when paired with durability. 3 gorecleavers are 7 or 10 attacks of 3+3+ -1 d2. That looks good, but you are doing an investement of 540 points for that. You can get much better damage output in smaller footprints for those points.

- Offensive + Reach. Blood bind + Slaughter priest. Yep, you can bubblewrap, but slaughterpriest, If you rely on the mortal wounds from slaughterpriests(on average 2,33333 mortal wounds per slaughterpriest, nothing amazing), you won't be casting blood bind, and blood bind has limitations which paired with the large footprint a 30 model unit presents makes it that it doesn't really have the same as having reach and or damage. Not to speak that your opponent can play against it, or that your slaughterpriests can get shot to dead easilly (see the durability part), or that they won't be buffing the bloodsecrator's distance if you are using them they way.

[Killax]

Again it's a fairly simple set up, if you have a 3 or 2+ armour save you drastically increase the ammount of time a deathstar can go with their damage output untouched. I really see no point in compairing Khorne models with Stardrake's that arn't in our faction. It is a lot of points invested. The point remains that you can create this deathstar in Khorne  .

In terms of Blood Bind, the moment you are in combat you indeed don't have to use it, the prime point you where making about reach is again presented as an option here. The point remains you can create reach by drawing your opponent in there.

Lastly, which is something you seem to miss maby (?) it still is a list presented with the Gore Pilgrim Battalion. If you can't be in Rage of Khorne distance it will likely mean your Bloodsecrator is dead. While it's certainly true that Slaughterpriest can die to ranged attacks the common meta trend has lead us away from ranged attack quantities presented in GH2016. In large part because many of the ranged units that bend the meta with GH2016 have been increased in cost and have become less interestingas horde units because of it. 

As above though, the point remains it is a Deathstar and the only way to review it's functionality is by playing it. Dismissing it with no knowledge of it's succes really doesn't get anyone anywhere. What is important to keep in mind is that the Slaughterpriest can bestow Blood Bind or Blood Boil AND do Bronzed Flesh. It's not 1 prayer out of the 3 options...

[Keldaur]

The deathstar was meant to be a semantics argument. A stardrake is a deathstar. A 30 bloodwarrior units is not. Not only you can teleport the stardrake around, but it has way more suvirval tools, small footprint, movement, flying, damage output and ways to deal with a myriad of different opponents than the bloodwarriors. The example is not done in an attempt to talk about Khorne options, but why it is not a deathstar. 

Since i felt like you wanted to discuss about the merits of the 30 bloodwarriors, then i presented my arguments about it.

It's not only about being in combat, blood bind can be worked on by screens not allowing the enemy unit to move further, that's why i say you can play around it. And if you move the screen with bloodbind, you are playing right into your opponent's plan. About the shooting meta or not, we should look at the most common builds you are likely to fight, and there you have tzeench, stormcasts and sylvaneth builds. There are more obviously, but just for starters. All of them can either kill the slaughterpriests from range and/or have ways to deal with big units with good armour through mortal wounds. Tzeench is rather obvious, stormcasts aswell, but sylvaneth for example has two common builds, one that can set for a turn one (no blonze flesh yet) to kill a lot of those bloodwarriors before they can be buffed up and made inmune to bravery, not to speak about drycha potentially having a field day with them. Or lists where they can shield+thorn dryads and let the bloodwarriors die by themselves against them, while they can also have a drycha lingering around for extra mortal wounds fun.

I am sure there are other armies that can also disable the slaughterpriest fiesta pretty easilly, but my ignorance on army roster does not allow me to continue to ramble about it.

Of course we can argue that everything has to be playtested before, but we can discuss wether or not theorically the unit will perform, at the end of the day, that's what the build's creator asked for, not for us to playtest it for him, but rather discuss it.  If you meant it as a we agree to disagree, i think it's true.

Edit - By the way, i am not missing the gorepilgrims. I maybe didn't express myself, or you didn't understand me, what i meant is that if you are moving the slaughterpriests with the bloodwarriors, you will end up not taking advantadge of the gore pilgrim rules for the bloodsecrator.

[Killax]

The point your trying to make still does not add up. In regards to footprints, because Blood Warriors are on 32mm the 30 with 2 Slaughterpriests really don't have that large of a footprint whatsoever. The other comment on Stardrake's having more survival tools isn't ****** true, as we're talking about a 60 wound unit here. In addition the fact that Blood Warriors can't fly and can't teleport is another irrelevant piece of information because no infantry unit in Khorne can actually do this.
Compairing apples to oranges is exactly what you are doing here  . Fact remains 30 Blood Warriors with 2 Slaughterpriest fit exactly what you initially described as what a Deathstar is. Durability+Reach+Output=Blood Warriors+Slaughterpriest. Wether or not it's as good as a Stardrake is totally irrelevant because we don't have Stardrakes and Stormcasts do not have these kinds of units on 32mm bases.

I find it very interesting you claim to know the meta @Sabrewulf is playing in. What you are stating about Tzeentch, Stormcast and Sylvanyth here is a pure assumption. Which is why I stated there is a test to be made for this army as the meta has opened to a whole lot more as Tzeentch, Stormcast and Sylvanyth. It seems like you are still basing your opinion on what you knew with GH2016. There are enough indications GH2017 is more as that, GH2017 is more as "shooting".

As before, I agree with you that this wouldn't be the list I'd play, because I think there are other ways to get more power out of Gore Pilgrims. The thing remains though that the Blood Warrior + Slaughterpriest set up certainly could work especially when we are talking about mixed Order lists, Chaos, Destruction and Deah heavier meta's. By large because not all armies are Tzeentch, Stormcast or Sylvanyth. We agree to dissagree about what a deathstar is.

 

[Keldaur]

- The footprint and attack density is the point. Adding that 30x32mm bases is the same footprint while completely forgetting about the range 1 and attack power is not even the same... like it is the same footprint, you know that's not true at all, specially if you stack them up, good luck getting anything out of the unit worthwhile. And a stardrake has more suvirvality because it has ways to sustain itself, get out of dangerous positions, has a smaller footprint and it isn't as weak against mortal wounds against hordes as the blood warrior unit is. And again, you are completely ignoring what i was argueing in the first place. That a 30 unit blood warriors is not a deathstar. That's why the stardrake is relevant... that's why the teleport is relevant, and why the quality of its attacks and versatility is relevant, because i was saying that 30 blood warriors are not a deathstar. They are not going to win a game by themselves when properly supported, a stardrake can. How efficient it is in the current meta is irrelevant, only the purpose of the unit and how it is used. As i said in the post before you asnwered, i said it was a semantics argument, which for many people are useless, but i heavily disagree since the accuracy of the language we use is one if not the most important thing to have a constructive conversation. And this one is a wonderful example.

- I am not the one comparing apples to oranges. 30 bloodwarrior unit supported by gore pilgrims are apples. Then i told you that it isn't true, and that stardrake is an apple, and the  bloodwarriors are oranges. (read it as apples = deathstar, orange = not deathstar).

- I didn't claim i know what his meta is. I spoke about it generally. If we are discussing a list in a vaccum about its power, then i can choose to discuss about regular meta choices which are based on power. We both know can't say how his list will perform in his own meta, because we don't know it, so to have a discussion about it we have to agree on a preset of meta choices first.

@Killax, in honour of civil discourse, please, don't strawman the arguments i am doing, or ignore the points to completely go again at things i already explained, and if i ever do it, point it as such please so i can apologize because that wouldn't be my intention.

If you need to, please, read my first post.

2 hours ago, Keldaur said:

@Killax Killax i don't mean offense, but you are using the term deathstar a lot lately. A death star has 3 requisites. Movement and or reach, durability and killyness. If one of them fails, the deathstar stops being a deathstar. The whole idea of a deathstar is to be unstoppable and able to sweep the table while you invest as many points as you can into it/they (hence the term deathstar), if not, then you would be paying a lot of points for something that's hardly as useful. I am new, so i haven't seen many units yet, but the only unit which works in a  deathstar kind of way i has seen is the Lord celestant on Stardrake. 

30 bloodwarriors with 3 bronze flesh are not a deathstar, no matter how durable you make them, because they aren't that killy or have the reach for it to be. They are a big fat and slow anvil.  I think it is a cute idea, and probably fun to play a few times, but i don't see how 30 bloodwarriors in one unit will ever perform better than 2-3 bloodwarrior units, or combinations of units of bloodwarriors with khorgoraths, wrathmongers, etc.

[Sabrewulf]

3 hours ago, Keldaur said:

stardrake is an apple, and the  bloodwarriors are oranges. (read it as apples = deathstar, orange = not deathstar).

Guys, what I really wanted to do was affect the highest possible number of models with Gorepilgrim buffs, and also to provoke some discussion. I was perhaps too successful. 

One reason I like this forum is that people will test your ideas before you have to buy and paint them. I happen to agree with Keldaur that 30 blood warriors, while discounted, are too expensive and slow for what they do. I also think that once we're discussing fruit analogy semantics, we may have gotten all the value possible out of the discussion . 

So back to the issue at hand, how do you speed up a mortal Khorne army to counter Tzeentch Aether, or this pending teleport meta? Even if I ran three small units of blood warriors, they won't be any faster. Perhaps the newly discounted Chaos Knights, Chariots and Skullcrushers?

Sabre

[Towenaar]

I think Brass Stampede is the best way to run Khorne now.  Skullcrushers are so good for their points, best run at minimum unit size as they're too easy to knock down from the 6 man unit buff. I think its only disadvantage may be the relatively large base sizes in some close situations, but in most cases I think you'll be able to use it to your advantage.  This is the army I want to build:

Allegiance: Khorne
Lord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140)
- General
- Trait: Disciple of Khorne
- Artefact: Gorecleaver
Bloodsecrator (120)
Lord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140)
Bloodthirster Of Unfettered Fury (260)
- Artefact: Armour of Scorn
7 x (3) Mighty Skullcrushers (980)
- Bloodglaives
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Javelin & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Javelin & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Brass Stampede (180)

Total: 2000 / 2000

Even with the mass of Skullcrushers you can still get a Bloodthirster, Bloodsecrator and another MLOK on Juggernaut. The Marauder Horsemen provide good support too, always able to benefit from the Lords command ability with their feigned flight rule. Plus this is 170 wounds total, Most of it with a 4+ armour save! And with 13 Blood Tithe points in your army alone, you'll have a lot of flexibility in the hero phase.  Anyone got any ideas on how to improve the list?

 

 

[Killax]

1 hour ago, Sabrewulf said:

So back to the issue at hand, how do you speed up a mortal Khorne army to counter Tzeentch Aether, or this pending teleport meta? Even if I ran three small units of blood warriors, they won't be any faster. Perhaps the newly discounted Chaos Knights, Chariots and Skullcrushers?

Sabre

Since the "demise" of Goretide all that is really left for Mortals is Bloodstokers and other smaller buffs like the Mighty Lord of Khorne and/or characters near it with the Talisman of Blood. Though frankly speaking, the Bloodstoker whips up the speed well enough to make the largest difference. 

If the intend is to create a Tournament winning army the larger question becomes not how much we can spead it up but how much boardcontrol we can present with multiple units, as multiple units leads to more Blood Tithe options which in turn also lead to more speed. The easiest way to obtain that speed remains Murderhost for us. Another option would to indeed go a route of Slaves to Darkness, where Chaos Knights offer a good option and offcourse Sayl.

The real question offcourse is how much you want to keep it Mortal. A Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster with multiple Bloodletter units and a Bloodstoker still is the quickest way to go about it. It has a lower ammount of resistance but it cares less for that due to maximum output. 

42 minutes ago, Towenaar said:

I think Brass Stampede is the best way to run Khorne now.  Skullcrushers are so good for their points, best run at minimum unit size as they're too easy to knock down from the 6 man unit buff. I think its only disadvantage may be the relatively large base sizes in some close situations, but in most cases I think you'll be able to use it to your advantage.  This is the army I want to build:

Allegiance: Khorne
Lord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140)
- General
- Trait: Disciple of Khorne
- Artefact: Gorecleaver
Bloodsecrator (120)
Lord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140)
Bloodthirster Of Unfettered Fury (260)
- Artefact: Armour of Scorn
7 x (3) Mighty Skullcrushers (980)
- Bloodglaives
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Javelin & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Javelin & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Brass Stampede (180)

Total: 2000 / 2000

Even with the mass of Skullcrushers you can still get a Bloodthirster, Bloodsecrator and another MLOK on Juggernaut. The Marauder Horsemen provide good support too, always able to benefit from the Lords command ability with their feigned flight rule. Plus this is 170 wounds total, Most of it with a 4+ armour save! And with 13 Blood Tithe points in your army alone, you'll have a lot of flexibility in the hero phase.  Anyone got any ideas on how to improve the list?

Seems like a possible way to go, if you like Skullcrushers that much offcourse. As you said, the base size is one thing to consider as it still makes it hard sometimes to have multiple units in there. Though I'd certainly give it a try if you want to go that route. What Im less sold on are non-general Bloodthirsters. In my experience Immense Power is required to make it be effective enough, going from 1-3 to 2-4 is massive for it. Giving it Deathdealer should still mean you can get some more punch out of it.
Other than that Skullcrushers with Horsemen are a fine combo though, as long as you have fun with constructing it all. 

Cheers,

 

[Sabrewulf]

37 minutes ago, Killax said:

If the intend is to create a Tournament winning army the larger question becomes not how much we can spead it up but how much boardcontrol we can present with multiple units, as multiple units leads to more Blood Tithe options which in turn also lead to more speed. The easiest way to obtain that speed remains Murderhost for us. Another option would to indeed go a route of Slaves to Darkness, where Chaos Knights offer a good option and offcourse Sayl.

The real question offcourse is how much you want to keep it Mortal. A Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster with multiple Bloodletter units and a Bloodstoker still is the quickest way to go about it. It has a lower ammount of resistance but it cares less for that due to maximum output. 

It would be fun to stay Mortal, if only to have an army that 1) people don't expect to face 2) doesn't look anything like what everyone else fields. I agree the WoK Bloodthirster + Bloodletters + Murderhost with Wrathmongers, Bloodstokers w/ Talisman and Khorgoraths in support is by far our most competitive build.

The new letter bomb charge (fun to write out): Murderhost 2D6 Move, Bloodstoker 5 inch +3 Move, Lord of the Blood Hunt Run 1D6 + 1, Talisman of Burning Blood Run +1,  Lord of the Blood Hunt Charge 2D6 +1, Talisman of Burning Blood Charge +1. Total: 8 inch move + 2D6, 2 inch run +1D6, 2 inch charge + 2D6. 14 inches +5D6, for a minimum of 20 inches and a maximum of 50 inches. Amazing. Might as well be a teleport. Maybe better, because there's no "at least 9 inches away." And of course, you start to gain Blood Tithe sooooo quickly, so you can continue to move at least one unit that far for the rest of the game.

I may just give in and build that army because it's so cool, but I do like building odd armies that people don't often face. I enjoy their reactions. I may go back to the drawing board with some Khorne marked Slaves to Darkness and work Sayl back into the build, since he can still chuck Chaos Warriors forward. I could give my Slaughter Priests Blood Sacrifice and behead Sayl for Blood Tithe in Turn 3 or 4 (Khorne would really like murdering your own Chaos Sorcerer mid-battle for Tithe).  

To be continued,

Sabre

[Hannibal]

I wonder, has anybody out there ever run a Khorne Massive Dude Spam army based on Blood Reapers or Chaos Marauders? I think it would look pretty cool on the table, but I´m not sure it´ll be worth the investment in cash due to Blood Reapers are really expensive.

[Killax]

4 minutes ago, Sabrewulf said:

It would be fun to stay Mortal, if only to have an army that 1) people don't expect to face 2) doesn't look anything like what everyone else fields. I agree the WoK Bloodthirster + Bloodletters + Murderhost with Wrathmongers, Bloodstokers w/ Talisman and Khorgoraths in support is by far our most competitive build.

The new letter bomb charge (fun to write out): Murderhost 2D6 Move, Bloodstoker 5 inch +3 Move, Lord of the Blood Hunt Run 1D6 + 1, Talisman of Burning Blood Run +1,  Lord of the Blood Hunt Charge 2D6 +1, Talisman of Burning Blood Charge +1. Total: 8 inch move + 2D6, 2 inch run +1D6, 2 inch charge + 2D6. 14 inches +5D6, for a minimum of 20 inches and a maximum of 50 inches. Amazing. Might as well be a teleport. Maybe better, because there's no "at least 9 inches away." And of course, you start to gain Blood Tithe sooooo quickly, so you can continue to move at least one unit that far for the rest of the game.

I may just give in and build that army because it's so cool, but I do like building odd armies that people don't often face. I enjoy their reactions. I may go back to the drawing board with some Khorne marked Slaves to Darkness and work Sayl back into the build, since he can still chuck Chaos Warriors forward. I could give my Slaughter Priests Blood Sacrifice and behead Sayl for Blood Tithe in Turn 3 or 4 (Khorne would really like murdering your own Chaos Sorcerer mid-battle for Tithe).  

To be continued,

Sabre

In the case of Mortal design I would then certainly give a great look at the Chaos Knights, who unsuported are capable to hunt down your non-elites better with speed and sheer impact on the charge. Whipping them or even going the route of Sayl is then also still a very viable option. One issue most have with Slaves to Darkness however is the rather rare way to obtain Rend (any) and if so it's often under a couple of rules people might not like.

Nontheless, something that will work regardless is a simple Bloodreaver unit with a Khorne Warshrine near them. That right there is an additional Blood Blessing option and I do believe here Killing Frenzy is an ideal choice. With the additional attacks, hit and rend they come with you have a good heavy body unit. 

In regards to the Bloodletter 'nuke' I can only agree with you  It's one of the reasons as to why Im working towards 90 Bloodletters. As can be seen from pretty much all Khorne results Murderhost delivers and it does so because 120 points for a Battalion remains relatively affordable. 

As you say, if you work Sayl in there one of the advantages Slaves to Darkness do keep is the speed. The wonderful part here is that you can combine quite a lot of things from Blades of Khorne and Slaves to Darkness to create something scary. E.g. Wrathmongers played well boost every unit in the right direction. Another nice benifit is that Marauders can deliver key pieces quite well. So tossing Skarr in there with them is a nasty suprise aswell. To me the real strong path that still lies there is the one with tons of Bloodreavers. Especially with Killing Frenzy they become solid. 

3 minutes ago, Hannibal said:

I wonder, has anybody out there ever run a Khorne Massive Dude Spam army based on Blood Reapers or Chaos Marauders? I think it would look pretty cool on the table, but I´m not sure it´ll be worth the investment in cash due to Blood Reapers are really expensive.

I think the investment isn't really holding anyone back, but I do believe the paintjob is. Back when the Bloodbound book was out I can recall a few mates of mine going the route of Bloodsecrator and Bloodreaver spam. Eventually he got bored by it, not so much because it didn't function but without movement trays its just too much of a hassle. Perhaps you could try it if you want to.

A lot in Khorne looks alike and works in compairable ways, also often leads to personal preforances creating the army!

[stuntymike]

So am coming back to Khorne after a wee break and getting over the fact that Goretide isn't really a thing anymore. I took it to a couple of tournies and really enjoyed it but I've got another coming up in a few weeks so need something new and I'm considering this:

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Bloodsecrator (120)
- Artefact: The Blood-forged Armour 
Bloodstoker (80)
Lord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140)
- General
- Trait: Disciple of Khorne 
- Artefact: Gorecleaver 
Slaughterpriest (100)
Valkia The Bloody (140)

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
40 x Bloodreavers (240)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
2 x Skull Cannons (320)
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Spinecleavers
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Spinecleavers

Battalions
Bloodmarked Warband (100)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
 

It's three drops and I'll likely be keeping the Bloodsecrator out of the formation. I could of course make it two drops by running 10 Skullreapers  instead of 2 x 5s but I think in most cases 3 drops will be enough and I want the extra board threat from the two units. The 40 Bloodreavers will be rerolling 1s to wound which is nice, but it'll be interesting to see how they perform. I'm also wedded to the concept of a unit of 2 Skull Cannons so they can be buffed to hit and to give the army some much needed range support, though I also plan on running them into chaff to try and get the extra shots in. Any thoughts would be appreciated, I've also looked at Gore Pilgrims but thought there might be mileage on this list. Cheers!

[Tubs]

Is anyone else looking into Maurader horsemen with Javs? Looks like it could be a nice filler for a bloodmarked  warband. A bit of range and speed yes please

[Killax]

1 hour ago, stuntymike said:

So am coming back to Khorne after a wee break and getting over the fact that Goretide isn't really a thing anymore. I took it to a couple of tournies and really enjoyed it but I've got another coming up in a few weeks so need something new and I'm considering this:

It's three drops and I'll likely be keeping the Bloodsecrator out of the formation. I could of course make it two drops by running 10 Skullreapers  instead of 2 x 5s but I think in most cases 3 drops will be enough and I want the extra board threat from the two units. The 40 Bloodreavers will be rerolling 1s to wound which is nice, but it'll be interesting to see how they perform. I'm also wedded to the concept of a unit of 2 Skull Cannons so they can be buffed to hit and to give the army some much needed range support, though I also plan on running them into chaff to try and get the extra shots in. Any thoughts would be appreciated, I've also looked at Gore Pilgrims but thought there might be mileage on this list. Cheers!

Army looks like a ton of fun! I do think the Khorne Allegiance would help there but I guess it just says Chaos because its automatically generated? In any case I really miss Goretide too. I don't have as much Blood Warriors and Skull Reapers as I wanted for that Battalion but the cost is just increased by so much that it's a real pitty we lost a one-drop like that. Afterall the best next thing after teleporting is speed and to me the Goretide was a fair excuse to give it to Bloodbound armies.

I think the above list is good, my experience with one Skull Cannon has been shaky enough to really not get another one. Perhaps the problem of the Skull Cannon is solved by thaking more but I'm not convinced. 
What I am convinced about is the Chaos Knights of Khorne though and for that same 160 points I'd personally prefer them over the Skull Cannon. They have the speed, they have the impact on the charge, good numbers and are fantastic supporters to Blood Warriors (obviously). What do you think about the idea of running Chaos Knights here?

28 minutes ago, Tubs said:

Is anyone else looking into Maurader horsemen with Javs? Looks like it could be a nice filler for a bloodmarked  warband. A bit of range and speed yes please

Certainly, they are a great support unit. Some ranged support is always welcome and well they do quite a lot of attacks all in all aswell. Offcourse they do die relatively quick but hey 90 points isn't that much either. 

It's very interesting to overall see the topic flow into Mortal discussions again, which is a great thing! Typically though I also need to state that a Bloodstoker is a great way to speed things up and it's easy to overlook his effect because that's all he does. The thing is, he really doesn't need to do more either and for me personally next to the Bloodsecrator the Bloodstoker is as good as an auto-include. 

Other than that Mortals do suffer from not having the same acces to Mortal Wounds as Bloodletters do. This doesn't have to be a massive issue but because of this I do see Mortal units as typically being better transports. A thing that I think is very interesting to test soon is a unit of Khorne Marauders transporting Bloodbound Heroes like Skarr, an Aspiring Champion (general) or even a Mighty Lord of Khorne (general) with Mark of the Destroyer and other goodies. These types of constructions are cheap and do have a certain bite to them but perhaps more importantly they stick around, which is a very welcome atribute Bloodbound doesn't have too many pieces of. To me the key to succes for Mortal units though is the mix of speed, attrition and output. The last part isn't very easy to find. I havn't looked too much at Monsters of Chaos yet but perhaps this is where more offense can come from.

Cheers,

 

[stuntymike]

Aye it's meant to be Khorne Allegiance just haven't changed it...

Will maybe try to Knights at some point, but at the mo I want something that can potentially threaten buffing characters and give me another phase to play in. The psychological effect is always useful too, especially if the opponent is deciding who to go first, when you can potentially kill a key piece. They may be gubbins but I'm determined to find out!

[xaljorn14]

So I'm not terribly familiar with khorne just yet, but I'm looking to start a new army and am leaning towards it.  

Currently I'm interested in the council of blood and gore pilgrims battalions. I know the pilgrims is pretty good, but do the two work well together?  I'm thinking the slaughterpriests could take the healing prayer and keep the blood thirsters up and killing. 

Also, with the council of blood, I was looking at the wrath of khorne bloodthirster and skarbrand,  but what would be a good pick for the third one?  

[Uveron]

4 hours ago, Killax said:

. This doesn't have to be a massive issue but because of this I do see Mortal units as typically being better transports. A thing that I think is very interesting to test soon is a unit of Khorne Marauders transporting Bloodbound Heroes like Skarr, an Aspiring Champion (general) or even a Mighty Lord of Khorne (general) with Mark of the Destroyer and other goodies. 

This is basically the lists I have been using, I have been very happy with the unit. I want to try it with Skarr at somepoint. 

But the lack of mortal wounds is the big problem.. Iam going to try soon a Chaos Lord with a artifact to buff the ReaperBlade as I think it may help 

Kitbashed this guy for that last night

 

[Killax]

1 hour ago, xaljorn14 said:

So I'm not terribly familiar with khorne just yet, but I'm looking to start a new army and am leaning towards it.  

Currently I'm interested in the council of blood and gore pilgrims battalions. I know the pilgrims is pretty good, but do the two work well together?  I'm thinking the slaughterpriests could take the healing prayer and keep the blood thirsters up and killing. 

Also, with the council of blood, I was looking at the wrath of khorne bloodthirster and skarbrand,  but what would be a good pick for the third one?  

Well you could try it, the Bloodthirsters have become cheaper, the Council of Blood isn't the most expensive Battalion in the world...
To be honest with you we have had one showing with Council of Blood on a Tournament and it didn't work out well enough. In addition to that some theory Age of Sigmar also show us that Bloodthirsters without Command Trait (Immense Power) and Artefact (The Crimson Crown) arn't that great. However that tournament was with GH2016. 

In all honesty though to date I believe Gore Pilgrims is so great with blocks of Infantry because it can increase what it allready does. If we had more Mortal Wound or high Rend Infantry we would have had more reasons to go for different Gore Pilgrim builds.
A single Bloodthirster general and Skarbrand next to that would not be a bad idea for Gore Pilgrims but I don't feel you'd ever want a third Bloodthirster in there. The prime reason why you likely can't find a good pick for the third one might be because there really isn't a really good third pick.

With this in mind though a Wrath of Khorne general with Skarbrand can still haul Skarbrand over the battlefield aswell. Sprinkle in a little bit of Bloodstoker love and I do believe you can do some legit things with a Skarbrand that has a 3+ or 2+ save, now you spend 110 points (more actually) on other things instead.

Hope that helps?  

[xaljorn14]

1 hour ago, Killax said:

Well you could try it, the Bloodthirsters have become cheaper, the Council of Blood isn't the most expensive Battalion in the world...
To be honest with you we have had one showing with Council of Blood on a Tournament and it didn't work out well enough. In addition to that some theory Age of Sigmar also show us that Bloodthirsters without Command Trait (Immense Power) and Artefact (The Crimson Crown) arn't that great. However that tournament was with GH2016. 

In all honesty though to date I believe Gore Pilgrims is so great with blocks of Infantry because it can increase what it allready does. If we had more Mortal Wound or high Rend Infantry we would have had more reasons to go for different Gore Pilgrim builds.
A single Bloodthirster general and Skarbrand next to that would not be a bad idea for Gore Pilgrims but I don't feel you'd ever want a third Bloodthirster in there. The prime reason why you likely can't find a good pick for the third one might be because there really isn't a really good third pick.

With this in mind though a Wrath of Khorne general with Skarbrand can still haul Skarbrand over the battlefield aswell. Sprinkle in a little bit of Bloodstoker love and I do believe you can do some legit things with a Skarbrand that has a 3+ or 2+ save, now you spend 110 points (more actually) on other things instead.

Hope that helps?  

It does help, mostly I was looking at council of blood cause I honestly love the bloodthirster model.  It's the primary reason I'm thinking of getting into a khorne army. Though they look awesome, I still want an army with some substance, it can't be all looks lol.  

[Killax]

2 hours ago, xaljorn14 said:

It does help, mostly I was looking at council of blood cause I honestly love the bloodthirster model.  It's the primary reason I'm thinking of getting into a khorne army. Though they look awesome, I still want an army with some substance, it can't be all looks lol.  

Certainly would follow that path then, with a WoK BT and Skarbrand you have some good points left. Still leads to a very elite army but its casual competitive enough. Skarbrand and BT issue are their armour so would certainly go double Bronzed Flesh, fill up with Bloodreavers and some Warriors and you should be decent. 

You could even consider a slightly riskier variant without Gore Pilgrims as Hero spots are tight and 180 point also grabs you speedy chaff that can block paths to either thirster, frankly speaking Id like that more. 2 units of Marauder Horseman arnt shabby.

[Praecautus]

Ok pop-khornes, before I start my next modelling project and kitbash a unit of skull reapers, I would like some advice/test the water on weapon load outs for skull reapers.

I see skull reapers as an anti-horde unit so loading up on goreslick blades and maybe 1or 2 of the daemon weapons for the no of attacks? Or go for the lower attack w rend option and buff them up?

Advice from the skull throne is appreciated

ps I intend to also build the wrath mongers, some blood warriors have been sourced to donate their legs to the cause.

[Keldaur]

Go full daemonblades. You won't regret it.

[Fireymonkeyboy]

On 10/15/2017 at 3:51 PM, Killax said:

.Another option would to indeed go a route of Slaves to Darkness, where Chaos Knights offer a good option 

I've been running knights consistently (in Bloodmarked) for about a year now, including in (local) competitive environments.  My impression is that they are solid, as a fast movinng and relatively durable buff platform, but tend to be a little lacklustre on offense without support.  I've had a unit of 8 kill FW Mammoths and Stonehorns in a turn (Glaive, on the charge, and buffed), and they do good work taking objectives and holding things up, but they aren't a self-contained easy-button by any means.  I take at least one unit in every mortal list I run, sometimes 2, but they do need buffs to get real work done.

Re: the running conversation around Gore Pilgrims.  I've been loath to run it in part because as I understood it, the Slaughterpriests were tied to the Bloodsecrator to get full benefit (had to stay within 8", or whatever it is, to maintain the bubble).  Then I recently heard on a podcast this wasn't the case, as the portal "stays open", and the Slaughterpriests can move in subsequent turns.  

Is this the case?  As far as I can tell, the portal needs to be opened every Command Phase.  The warscroll indicates you open it in your hero phase, and then you can't move to the following hero phase, but gain Loathsome Sorcery and Rage of Khorne.  That seems clear that the abilities, like the movement restriction, last for a turn.  That means Slaughterpriests are stuck in the backfield if they want to extend the range of the portal.

Also, rereading the rules, it indicates you get both abilities.  I've been cheating myself for more than a year (always thought, for some reason, it was one or the other).

FMB

[Skarband]

Hello guys i need help with my army list I want to go Brass Stampede we playing 1500 points HELP:

Alligance of Khorne

Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut:General,slagueborn,gore cleaver,general 140pkt

Bloodsecator:Brazen rune 120pkt

Bloodstoker 80pkt

6x Mighty Skullcrushuers 240pkt

3x Mighty Skullcrushers 140pkt

3x Mighty Skullcrushers 140pkt

10x Bloodwarriors 200pkt

10x Bloodreavers 70pkt

10x Bloodreavers 70pkt

10x Bloodreavers 70pkt

Brass Stampede 180pkt