Let's chat : Blades of Khorne!

[Xasz]

Played a list with Bloodmarked Warband a couple of days ago, in preparation for an upcoming tournament.

For some reason the organizers decided that you have to roll for abilities, artifacts, spells and prayers every game. So priest aren't that tempting anymore and as I own 10 Bloodletters ... time for something different.

Spoiler

Leaders
Mighty Lord Of Khorne (140)
- General
Bloodsecrator (120)
Bloodstoker (80)
Valkia The Bloody (140)

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
- Reaver Blades
6 x Mighty Skullcrushers (280)
- Ensorcelled Axes

Units
5 x Wrathmongers (180)
2 x Khorgoraths (160)

Battalions
Bloodmarked Warband (100)

Total: 1740/1750
 

Normally I would have 5+ heroes but I decided to turn an 80 point hero into a second Korgorath. Overall 4 heroes felt sufficient in this case with the warband generating new heroes. Valkia is a little bit more expensive now but she's still unique with her speed and damage output in khorne mortals. Even though she totally whiffed this game.

There might be an argument for switching the Bloodstoker with Skarr or another killy hero,(that's the 80 point hero I switched for another Korgorath) but the speed boost from Mr Whip is really nice as well. Especially in an army that tends to be rather slow, while melee is pretty much the only source of damage.

There is probably no need to praise Blood Warriors, they are probably one of the best battle-lines in AoS. Against other melee armies they are just golden.

I usually played Bloodreavers in small 10 man units, with the new scenarios where you need to have 20+ units (which I am not a fan of) I feel kinda forced to field bigger units. In my 2000 lists I planned with a unit of 40 but holy moly even 20 guys felt so clunky. We played duality of fate, were the territories are rather small and I had my struggles fitting everything they way I wanted. (I probably played them the wrong way this game, they should most likely either be played as meatshield or behind the rest of the army, ready to mop everything up hat is left)

First time I used Skullcrushers and I like them. Durable, perfect target to spawn new heroes and doesn't need buffs/support to do their job. Although, their damage output is abysmal.

One unit of Wrathmongers is a staple for me personally. The list overall can create a lot of extra attacks between Bloodsecrator, Wrathmongers and the ability from bloodmarked.

Really liked the Korgoraths even though I lost them rather early in the game. One felt too flimsy so I added another one instead of a 5th hero before the game.

Overall I was pleasantly surprised and I'm not sure if I should even change something. The warband might become my go to battalion for games under 2000, which are very common in my area. (mostly 1,5k)

[Roark]

Thanks Killax. Yeah, my 1500 has a blob of Letters and a Skullhunter with Crimson Crown. I don't think I can quite bring myself to just field a sea of Letters, though I understand how incredibly good they are.

[Praecautus]

Thanks for the input, will consider and revise the list

[Killax]

1 hour ago, Roark said:

Thanks Killax. Yeah, my 1500 has a blob of Letters and a Skullhunter with Crimson Crown. I don't think I can quite bring myself to just field a sea of Letters, though I understand how incredibly good they are.

No worries, the difference becomes smaller in several Battalion army set ups aswell, as the support for our units still is fairly specific (for a reason). So the moment you do stack on Bloodbound Heroes the whole army set up should also look differently.

In general there are only really two models that really should be in either army, be it Bloodbound or Khorne Daemon Heavy and those are the Bloodsecrator and Bloodstoker. In general other paths of Heroes should lead to a whole different design of army. As for competative reasons we should want to optimize the Command Abilities of said Bloodbound or Daemon Hero. For sure Slaves to Darkness could be mentioned here but a lot of Slaves to Darkness abilities are focused on Slaves to Darkness units.

But the other and more realistic hobby factor I also understand in regarding to Bloodletters is that I simply cant say painting up and putting together 90 Bloodletters at a higher table top level is fun. One thing on how I tried making it more fun is by incorporating more armour and cloth pieces. (I should really update my army topic  ) 
Another thing I used to make it all a little bit more fun and different was using the Banners of Rage as Bloodsoaked Banners. 

In regards to our positive GH2016 to GH2017 changes I also think that there is still a lot to be said for all of them. The only big downside for Bloodreavers now is that there is less reason to run 2+ Bloodsecrators which in turn makes it more difficult to really get the most out of Bloodreavers as they are rather attached to them. Though I fully understand the change in regards to the Bloodsecrator. I also feel that we recieved all kinds of nice discounts on units because the Rage of Khorne was touched upon.
 

2 minutes ago, Praecautus said:

Thanks for the input, will consider and revise the list

No worries! I just think that there is a ton of power in Daemon lists but you do have to make great use of some of the best discounts they recieved now. In addition your aim might also be to use it for both casual and tournament games, in which case your solid for any store or home games!

Cheers,

[Roark]

Ah, you've always got your finger on the pulse mate. One change I've really welcomed is cheaper Skullcrushers. With a unit of 6, we have a really nice big wound-efficient anvil (that can deliver mortal wounds to multiple units on the charge). Thanks again for the comprehensive advice.

[Killax]

5 minutes ago, Roark said:

Ah, you've always got your finger on the pulse mate. One change I've really welcomed is cheaper Skullcrushers. With a unit of 6, we have a really nice big wound-efficient anvil (that can deliver mortal wounds to multiple units on the charge). Thanks again for the comprehensive advice.

No worries! Age of Sigmar is also not difficult to understand in my opinion. Or at least Blades of Khorne is very simple in approach.
The only big differences come in unit functionality and role which for us are basically the depth of the army.

The cheaper Skullcrushers are great and in my opinion effectively replaced Skullreapers in their role. I still have to try and give my Skullcrushers the right weapon because I feel now more than ever they have a significant role in our army. It's crazy how 20 point discounts and bumps change how effective such a unit is in it's role. A unit of 6 or two of 3 are certainly perfect. I think that the unit of 6 works really well as a backbone choice and multiple units of 3 are ideal for Objective and flanking purposes.

In that same vein the small discount on Khorgoraths is also a huge change, especially since it's one of the few sturdy units we have at 80. I own a few now but really hope GW will put him into seperate or double boxed sale soon. 

[Roark]

I don't normally do this, but I'd really appreciate any feedback on this 1500pt Bloodmarked Warband list. I felt like doing mortals to motivate and inspire me to paint them.

It's not heaps sophisticated: one drop with lots of extra attacks, blood tithe and buffs.

Allegiance: Khorne Mortal

Leaders
Aspiring Deathbringer (80)
- General
- Bloodaxe and Wrath Hammer
- Trait: Violent Urgency 
Exalted Deathbringer (80)
- Ruinous Axe & Skullgouger
- Artefact: The Blade of Endless Bloodshed 
Aspiring Deathbringer (80)
- Bloodaxe and Wrath Hammer
Bloodsecrator (120)
- Artefact: The Brazen Rune 
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
40 x Bloodreavers (240)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers

10 x Chaos Knights (320)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Battalions
Bloodmarked Warband (100)

Total: 1500/1500
 

[Easytyger]

@Killax Just wanted to discuss the second list you posted. I very much like both of them as I believe Murderhost and Gorepilgrim are our best battalions.

Your Gorepilgrims list is interesting for the 3 Slaughterpriests all with Bronze skin. It looks like you are really going for the Bloodwarriors to be a very durable anvil and your Letters be the hammer ( more like a buzz saw really). It might be worth having one of the priests have Killing Frenzy. It's  just so crazy on the Letters even without the Letter hero with Crown. Just played a game with 30 Letters that had Killing Frenzy and Bloodmaster with Crimson Crown. 60 attacks, rerollong 1s, with MWs and extra attacks (and extra MWs) on 4+ is bananas. 

[Xasz]

2 hours ago, Easytyger said:

Your Gorepilgrims list is interesting for the 3 Slaughterpriests all with Bronze skin.

It's up to you, Killing Frency and Blood Sacrifice would make sense with that list as well. Despite that, that's not the kind of list I would take 3x Bronze Flesh.

[Killax]

5 hours ago, Roark said:

I don't normally do this, but I'd really appreciate any feedback on this 1500pt Bloodmarked Warband list. I felt like doing mortals to motivate and inspire me to paint them.

It's not heaps sophisticated: one drop with lots of extra attacks, blood tithe and buffs.
 

Looks like a very solid list to me! You can also play around with a Bloodstoker instead of one of the other Heroes just to see what you like. The added buff to movement and damage output is very helpful and in my experience something really good for Chaos Knights aswell.

Other than that I think Bloodmarked Warband is a nice Battalion that can also really be interesting with Khorgoraths as the attack bonus isn´t wasted on them (nor on Skullreapers offcourse). So really keep up the project! It's nice, unique enough and a really cool blend of models. 

4 hours ago, Easytyger said:

@Killax Just wanted to discuss the second list you posted. I very much like both of them as I believe Murderhost and Gorepilgrim are our best battalions.

Your Gorepilgrims list is interesting for the 3 Slaughterpriests all with Bronze skin. It looks like you are really going for the Bloodwarriors to be a very durable anvil and your Letters be the hammer ( more like a buzz saw really). It might be worth having one of the priests have Killing Frenzy. It's  just so crazy on the Letters even without the Letter hero with Crown. Just played a game with 30 Letters that had Killing Frenzy and Bloodmaster with Crimson Crown. 60 attacks, rerollong 1s, with MWs and extra attacks (and extra MWs) on 4+ is bananas. 

Cheers mate, many thanks for the feedback!

I think that Bronze Skin is really the most effective during all the turns of the game and while it's certainly an option to have the third one have another prayer I really believe that spreading it around for turn 1 helps out a lot as things do not become as simple as just ignoring the 3+/2+ armour save unit with ranged attacks . One reason as to why I went for it three times now is still because I believe 1 Slaughterpriest will be babysitting the Bloodsecrator, which is why I went for identical design because sometimes you just need a 2+ save Bloodsecrator. 

Killing Frenzy indeed would be incredible for the third Priest and the Bloodletters when combined with the The Crimson Crown thinks indeed get even crazier! I really feel that the Bloodletter Heroes in general arn't great up until The Crimson Crown is added. In general the practicle games will be played around with this idea and concept aswell. One of the things Im also considering now is to have the Bloodthirster general with The Crimson Crown as it becomes quite a vital part and the base of the Bloodthirster really allows for a great effect zone. 

[Killax]

With the list discussions and tactical discussions aside I also think it's still very important to make note of some of the other changes the Errata brought to us. Especially because there are some great things found there. First things though I decided to make our specific Blades of Khorne changes into one (printable) easy sheet to check upon.


Source CHAOS Errata: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/AoS_Errata/warhammer_aos_chaos_en.pdf
Source Rules Errata: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Errata/warhammer_aos_rules_en.pdf

Chaos Changes: Most of the things that changed where likely how we allready played them, so to give a small reflection on this I do think it helps to clarify what has changed;
Rules Changes: Some of the changes have made several of our Artefacts and units better. The prime reason for this is the specific clarification from the latest Errata. Two of the most impacting general rules changes would be: 
 

Quote

A: Yes. In the Warhammer Age of Sigmar rules, ‘a roll of 6’ is treated as being synonymous with ‘a roll of 6 or more’.

 

Quote

A: Re-rolls happen before any modifiers are applied, so the success or failure will always be based on the unmodified roll.

Specific Blades of Khorne changes:
Blood Tithe Table:
- The spending at "any point" has now been clarified to be done "at the start of either player's hero phase"
- Murderlust: Has been clarified in use.
- Apoplectic Fenzy: Clarification, the pile in is only available when within 3" of an enemy model. 

Command Traits:
- Slaughterborn: Clarification on re-rolls in Rules Errata.
- Devastating Blow: Clarification that it does not apply to mounts. Keep in mind that it still seems to apply for ranged attacks, which is relevant for some Bloodthirsters.

Artefacts:
- Mark of the Destroyer: Clarification and change on multipliers. Modifiers are now applied after multipliers. This is confirmed in the Rules Errata.

Quote

A: In Warhammer Age of Sigmar, modifiers are applied after any multipliers. Note that this means that an ability that multiplies a unit’s Move characteristic does so before any modifiers for running are applied.

- The Crimson Crown: Clarification and improved, the fact that it now 'triggers' on 6 or more means that several Khorne Daemons have quite a great chance of succesful doing Mortal wounds. The largest impact from this change is found on Bloodletters. 

Warscroll Battalions:
- Council of Blood: Clarification, the pile in is only available when within 3" of an enemy model. 
- Blood Hunt: Small clarification on how this ability works and specifically note that the movement must end closer to the enemy model with the Blood Mark.
- Charnel Host: Clarification, the pile in is only available when within 3" of an enemy model. 
- The Reapers of Vengeance: Bit of a bummer here, instead of selecting D3+1 we can now only select D3 and it recieved the same clarification and change like Blood Hunt. (Doesn't matter too much anyway, you can't play this at 2000 points)
- The Bloodlords: Clarification, the pile in is only available when within 3" of an enemy model. 
- Skulltake: Wording, 6 or higher is now 6 or more.
- The Goretide: Clarification and improvement, the Mighty Lord of Khorne is now capable of piling in 8" while within 8" of enemy models. The wording is now also in line with Khorgos Khul. 

Unit Warscrolls:
- Bloodsecrator: Clarification and change on Rage of Khorne, it now does not stack because of the added 'any', any means one or more. This is also confirmed in the Rules errata.

Quote

A: The ability is applied only once, no matter how many times the criteria are fulfilled – ‘any’ is treated as being synonymous with ‘one or more’ in the Warhammer Age of Sigmar rules. 

- Aspiring Deathbringer with Goreaxe and Skullhammer: Clarification, the pile in is only available when within 3" of an enemy model. 

Hope it will inform new Blades of Khorne players in a quick way.
1. It general it means there is now less reason for us to use multiple Bloodsecrators now, less reason to go for a Mighty Lord of Khorne with Desciple of Khorne Command Trait and Mark of the Destroyer Artefact.
2. However at the same time we have all the more reason to run The Crimson Crown next to the other wonderful discounts we've recieved as a general GH2017 change.

Cheers,

[Keldaur]

Indeed it does help, thank you very much @Killax

I feel this is the kind of stuff that should be attached to the OP.

[Kaleb Daark]

So, quick question, if I'm running a slaves to darkness army which is all marked khorne can I take battle traits or artefacts from the blades of khorne book?

and if yes can I take say a battle trait from slaves to darkness and an artefact from blades or must they be from the same family of tables?

[Killax]

@Keldaur no worries, it fits nicely on page 85 . Did some reviews on the Blades of Khorne book aswell when it was just released but in general a lot of those opinions have changed aswell. Especially for Slaves to Darkness choices and for Battalions.

In general though I do think that Khorne Daemons got much better out of GH2017 where before, mainly thanks to both Gore Pilgrims and The Goretide I felt Mortals had some really cool tricks up their sleeves awell. This somewhat still remains with Bloodforged and Gore Pilgrims but the semi-sad thing for me is that Bloodforged arguably relies too much on Blood Warriors for a benifit that only appears in melee and that Gore Pilgrims as a whole just got a whole lot more expensive and the side effect of Bloodsecrator being dropped in quantity for obvious reasons also menas there is much less reason to run Bloodreavers. Not because Bloodreavers are bad but because they only become really good the moment a Totem is near them, which is a hassle to do if you only have one Bloodsecrator. 

The general advantage however in our faction now  in my opinion now comes from Bloodletters and Bloodthirsters. Especially a Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster with Bloodstoker allows for some obscene movements for Bloodletters next to getting all kinds of other buffs. To the point where I'm also more and more considering running a list without Battalion altogether. For some pieces I wouldn't recommend it (such as Slaughterpriests) but for many others the difference isn't that big. 120-180 points can get you a whole lot of goodness aswell.

It's a new game really and the more I think of dropping Battalions the more I'm liking the idea of running two-ish Khorgorath's instead. Partially for homebase objective purposes and partially because they sygn in really well with our Blood Tithe system and offer great combat support. Keeping back Marauders for that purpose can also be done but I think we'd both agree that they are not as efficient in melee and actually slightly easier to kill also. 

 

[Killax]

5 minutes ago, Kaleb Daark said:

So, quick question, if I'm running a slaves to darkness army which is all marked khorne can I take battle traits or artefacts from the blades of khorne book?

and if yes can I take say a battle trait from slaves to darkness and an artefact from blades or must they be from the same family of tables?

Under the current wording of the Khorne Allegiance (pre GH2017) you can indeed run Slaves to Darkness with this Allegiance provided all starting units have the Khorne Keyword. The moment you do so (as per wording) you only have acces to the Allegiance abilities of Khorne. Which indeed means the Battle Traits, Command Traits and Artefacts. 

Choosing Khorne Allegiance does mean you cannot thake a Battle Trait from Slaves to Darkness, Command Trait or Artefact. As per (old) wording you can only have one Allegiance.

As GH2017 is unclear about the Blades of Khorne Faction intends under the current wording Khorne does not have any Allies that are RAW. It's something to keep in mind in my opinion.

[Tizianolol]

i think GH2017 is council of blood year.. you can build a really fast army and the battalion is not so expensive + bloodletters and stoker buffs

[Killax]

7 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

i think GH2017 is council of blood year.. you can build a really fast army and the battalion is not so expensive + bloodletters and stoker buffs

Hmmm, it's potentially cool but also not so difficult to play around for certain armies. I don't have any issues with the Battalion but it's not always easy to thake out a Hero, Monster or Unit and also be near 3" of another unit to really make use of it. I am completely with you that Bloodthirsters are all legit but for me this has to be put into the General's context, as in a Bloodthirster with added buffs from both the Command Traits and Artefacts. Otherwise I feel Bloodthrisers can still really choke upon big numbers.

Despite their massive size and impressive armours Bloodthirsters still only have a 4+ armour save and 14 wounds. Typically this means that despite being roughly the same cost a unit of 30 Bloodletters will maul a Bloodthirster. In addition their basic Warscroll has to work with D3 wounds or D6 wounds and this can really end up being too dicey.

Perhaps if the Bloodthirsters would have had some kind of way to regain wounds through this Battalion I would try and play it. There is offcourse Crimson Rain on Blood Tithe Table but this too is another D3 and not something you can really rely upon. 

However for those who want to have fun with Bloodthirsters, most certainly go for it  

[Kaleb Daark]

20 minutes ago, Killax said:

Under the current wording of the Khorne Allegiance (pre GH2017) you can indeed run Slaves to Darkness with this Allegiance provided all starting units have the Khorne Keyword. The moment you do so (as per wording) you only have acces to the Allegiance abilities of Khorne. Which indeed means the Battle Traits, Command Traits and Artefacts. 

Choosing Khorne Allegiance does mean you cannot thake a Battle Trait from Slaves to Darkness, Command Trait or Artefact. As per (old) wording you can only have one Allegiance.

As GH2017 is unclear about the Blades of Khorne Faction intends under the current wording Khorne does not have any Allies that are RAW. It's something to keep in mind in my opinion.

Thanks killax.

so my choice in traits was illegal but we both agreed to go for it on this occasion.

but yes, khorne slaves to darkness worked really well.

[Killax]

@Kaleb Daark cool man! Yeah I think Slaves to Darkness is a really cool army now, both on and in itself and when used in context with other Chaos God Allegiances.

One of the things that's scratching my hands is to get a Chaos Lord on Manticore! The way it looks it would be another one of those models that's a perfect excuse to use a Wrathmonger/Skullreaper torso on and basically completely integrate it into the Khorne Bloodbound look.

Speaking of which! I'm working on a new Khorgorath (because they seem so good on paper) which will be much of a Chaos Spawn meets Gladiator as a mutated bull. Hope to show some pictures tonight. I feel it's the perfect excuse to use the Marauder Horseman shields for, which will act as some Pauldrons for him. Still have to find the right head for him though! Love this conversion but can't be bothered to pick up the Dark Eldar box required for it:

 

 

NOT MINE, credits go to @BasetheRuin. Many thanks for the inspiration!

[Heroflegend21]

I've been checking out some tournament lists and I see a lot of people completely disregarding Battalions in favor of more bodies, do you guys think Battalions are even worth trying to work into your matched play or should you go for as many wounds as possible?

what do you guys think?

[Arkiham]

2 hours ago, Heroflegend21 said:

I've been checking out some tournament lists and I see a lot of people completely disregarding Battalions in favor of more bodies, do you guys think Battalions are even worth trying to work into your matched play or should you go for as many wounds as possible?

what do you guys think?

It depends.

Some battalions are worthwhile, even better now (bloodmarked warband ) due to others not being so good and the fact some people don't even bother with battalions now allows us to decide who goes first.

 

Some, the units compromising them got cheaper so if you max it out you actually save points (brass stampede)

Others went up quite significantly,  due to unit make up and battalion cost increase. (skulltake)

But I don't necessarily think the ones which went up are now worthless, they just haven't found the list requred.

If say, you ran skulltake. You'd max out khorgoraths as they are a bargain but maybe not the skullreapers. Even though I feel they might do even better in the new meta than the previous one, as there is loads of poor quality  units for them to build their buff up on.

 

I think people are still unsure on lists, we've gone from ultra elite armies to horde meta over night, take a while to change your mind set.

[The ape]

Hi guys I have a game against stormcast next week. Not sure what I'll be up against though...

Here is my proposed list-comments appreciated

 

 

 

[Arkiham]

36 minutes ago, The ape said:

Hi guys I have a game against stormcast next week. Not sure what I'll be up against though...

Here is my proposed list-comments appreciated

 

 

 

Do you know what they run ?

Massive variance in stormies

[The ape]

Not a clue I'm afraid. It's not a particularly active scene at my club-we only meet on average once a month and there's lots of different games/systems so it's not like I can see his regular list.

[Killax]

@The ape list looks solid, but I also wonder what you could do with those additional 50 points left. So when I look at the list I'm not completely certain you actually need/want a Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster here. The prime reason being that not counting the Bloodsecrator and Bloodstoker you have 4 powerful Bloodbound units, which outnumber your Bloodletters not only in points but also in models. The moment I see something like that I am beginning to like the Mighty Lord of Khorne or Khorne Lord on Juggernaut slightly more.

Other than that I'd personally split up the Juggernaut units because I feel you've got a lot of ground covered barring the 'speed' units for Objective grabbing and I do feel that they do this job very well.

On the other hand, I feel that if you do want to persue the army with a Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster I'd strongly suggest putting another unit of Bloodletters in there. Which you could do instead of the Skullcrushers and then have 60 points left for 10 Marauders who could bodyguard the Bloodsecrator for example.