jazman84 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 On 15/03/2018 at 2:41 AM, AlvinAOS said: Seeking Advice: Will be having a 2k game this weekend. My opponent will be SCE and will bring 12 Raptors with Longstrike...24"(can be extend to 30") 2+/3+ -2 rend Dmg 2. Retributors will be in also. I will be having WOK BT (crimson crown) as general with 2 units of 30 bloodletters. Should I use Gore Pilgrims (with the necessary units of cos) alone or with Muderhost? I have a feeling they will rush to kill my Bloodsecrator first also. 2 battalions cost 300 points. But this long range is quite damaging in fact. Any advice? I'd go Gore Pilgrims 2 Spriests with Killing Frenzy and take 2 Stokers for a turn 1 long charge. Bubble wrap Secrator with a large Bloodwarrior unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 5 hours ago, jazman84 said: I'd go Gore Pilgrims 2 Spriests with Killing Frenzy and take 2 Stokers for a turn 1 long charge. Bubble wrap Secrator with a large Bloodwarrior unit. Bloodstokers don't stack mate... Whipped to Fury: '...you can add 3" to run or charge rolls for a unit that has been whipped to fury...' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlvinAOS Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Roark said: Bloodstokers don't stack mate... Whipped to Fury: '...you can add 3" to run or charge rolls for a unit that has been whipped to fury...' Yup they dun stack now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent of Chaos Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Got a 2000 point game against death coming up. Fortunately no Nagash but thats all I know. Anyone with general suggestions? Ive put some lists up in the "Strategies Versus Death Players" forum and would appreciate any advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitli Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 58 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said: Got a 2000 point game against death coming up. Fortunately no Nagash but thats all I know. Anyone with general suggestions? Ive put some lists up in the "Strategies Versus Death Players" forum and would appreciate any advice! So I’m pretty sure Mortal Khorne is solid against most Death lists. I’d be looking at bringing a big unit of reavers maybe 2 in gore pilgrims and also ally in Gaunt Summoner with familiars on balewind to deal with any big units of skellies or zombies. Brazen rune artefact is really useful as it stops that vanhels or key mystic shield. Your slaughterpriests will also be useful in dealing with those aggressive heroes such as mortarchs. Use your numbers to hold/screen objectives and get the Summoner to deal with their big numbers, giving you the advantage. Just saying, Gorecleaver on a Juggerlord general is legit. Cheeky unit of Wrathmongers can really put a doubt into the opponents mind when considering charges with Morghasts or someone like Neferata. Hope some of that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Roark said: Bloodstokers don't stack mate... Whipped to Fury: '...you can add 3" to run or charge rolls for a unit that has been whipped to fury...' 1 hour ago, AlvinAOS said: Yup they dun stack now. FAQ of the rules page 6 : Q: Are the effects of multiple duplicate spells and abilities stackable against the target? A: Yes, unless specifically stated otherwise. So unless the next FAQ quote the bloodstocker It stacks. The Bloodsecrator was given the same rewording and a year later, they specifically stated that it does't stack in the FAQ atferwards. The Stocker wasn't faqed, soooo, it stacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlvinAOS Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, kozokus said: FAQ of the rules page 6 : Q: Are the effects of multiple duplicate spells and abilities stackable against the target? A: Yes, unless specifically stated otherwise. So unless the next FAQ quote the bloodstocker It stacks. The Bloodsecrator was given the same rewording and a year later, they specifically stated that it does't stack in the FAQ atferwards. The Stocker wasn't faqed, soooo, it stacks. I had the same thinking at first. But I read again a few times. ask my whole group and all say the same. so here goes: Whipped to Fury: In your hero phase, pick one KHORNE unit from your army within 12" of this model. Until your next hero phase, you can add 3" to all run or charge rolls for a unit that has been whipped to fury, and can re-roll wound rolls of 1 for models in that unit. This to me is you whip (regardless how many times), + 3" to all run and charge rolls. I would not say stack or not stack. rather is just a +3. thats all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 1 hour ago, AlvinAOS said: This to me is you whip (regardless how many times), + 3" to all run and charge rolls. I would not say stack or not stack. rather is just a +3. thats all. I see what you mean but one can argue that a model can be "whipped to fury" twice too. The "regardless of how many time" comes from the way one can read it but is actually not in the sentence. In the end this is purely interpretation of the usual bad writing of rules we have enjoyed from the begining (but seems to stop, yay). The most prudent approach of this case would still be to says it stacks because : -The bloodsecrator and the Bloodstocker have the same kind of wording. For the Bloodsecrator they said specifically it doesn't stack and they didn't for the Stocker. -There was a wave of non-stacking FAQ/rules (Aetherkhemist, Secrator, tomb kings, etc...) and the Bloodstocker was spared. -The Necrotect is a (more-or-less) copy-pasta of the Bloodstocker and stack -The last FAQ in date specifically mentionned the Bloodstocker (because he was in the radar in some way) but they only explicited the run OR/AND charge part of the ruling. They could have make the Bloodsecrator treatment to him but didn't. In the end i think it is a test. They didn't touch that part of the warscroll to see if a broken strategy would emerge, and if it was the case, correct it. In the meantime, most clues goes toward the "it stacks". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Well, it's clear as day to me (as opposed to some iterations of Bloodsecrator rules, which weren't). A unit either has or hasn't been whipped to fury. If it has, it gains the bonuses. I don't see stacking as even coming into the equation. It's a yes/no or perhaps on/off condition. I don't know what a Necrotect is. Can you post the relevant rule? Because I think the Bloodsecrator was slightly (importantly) different in its ambiguity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Actually, I think I'll shut up now. I really want this, and every time I look at the 80pt Relictor warscroll I get a bit grumpy... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAdequateWargamer Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Difference being bloodsecrator was an area of effect ability. The faq seemed to target things where you could have an overlapping bubble in that you could only be under the effect once using the phrase 'While they are within x of ANY models with this ability'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman84 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 In the latest faq they address Bloodstokers specifically. And yes, they stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 It was a completely different Bloodstoker issue that was addressed in the FAQ mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Well as far as I know the Bloodstoker can stack. Not that I think you'll ever need it stacking but that's besides the point. The prime reason why I think this is because the wording doesn't have any wording in it that would currently prefent that from happening. The FAQ doesn't state that the Bloodsecrator doesn't stack, they have just changed the wording of the Bloodsecrator with that Errata (well old news now) that made the wording so that it doesn't stack. As is the case with AoS now, if it doesn't stack it should say so on the Warscroll or Errata, for Bloodsecrator this is done, for Bloodstoker this isn't done. The errata's as far as I know never explicitly state X or Yit just updated wording a bunch. We do have confirmation that if you can run and charge with a Bloodstoker effect that both run and charge are effected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praecautus Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 So skarbrand / morathi has been FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praecautus Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Yeah thanks for sharing! Also Morathi can end up on a Vortex due to transformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I'm sure you all have read this allready, but it is very awesome:https://malignportents.com/story/the-joy-of-battle/ Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mincemeat Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 44 minutes ago, Killax said: I'm sure you all have read this allready, but it is very awesome:https://malignportents.com/story/the-joy-of-battle/ Cheers, Loved that story. Some bits reminded me of Mad Max like the bloodreaver shouting "He sees me!" and now I want to paint loads of reavers with chrome mouths and shout "Witness me!" whenever they charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praecautus Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Played daughters of kaine for the first time tonight, wow that mortal wound output is nasty. What options do we have to stop them? Shrine is one , anything else? Aso don't under estimate this guy, Morathi now resides in the land of khorne tonight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Mincemeat said: Loved that story. Some bits reminded me of Mad Max like the bloodreaver shouting "He sees me!" and now I want to paint loads of reavers with chrome mouths and shout "Witness me!" whenever they charge Yeah that vibe was very much going on with me aswell! But that's all we need anyway Having said that though it would be really nice to see Khorgos Khul get to a new level also with his own model and all that representing that. Love his current model also but it's the same as the Mighty Lord and thus less impressive 1 hour ago, Praecautus said: Played daughters of kaine for the first time tonight, wow that mortal wound output is nasty. What options do we have to stop them? Shrine is one , anything else? Aso don't under estimate this guy, Morathi now resides in the land of khorne tonight... Excellent! BLOOD FOR THE BLOODGOD, Morathi's skull is only one of many for the throne! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent of Chaos Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Chaos warriors/knights with runeshields might help with that mortal wound output. That and swarm them with bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praecautus Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 3 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said: Chaos warriors/knights with runeshields might help with that mortal wound output. That and swarm them with bodies. Good call on those two. The knights are now higher in my shopping list. All the MWs came through prayers so my blood bound had nothing to stop that. Everything is tied to magic defense. Wierdy the unit which did the best was the blood reavers, being able to pump out the attacks overcame the limits of the ward save plus lots of ablative wounds. In one round the fully buffed unit took out a hag queen, brought the avatar down to 2 wounds and snarled up the blood wrack shrine. Whereas My blood warriors were one shotted into oblivion by Morathi and the bloodwrack shrine did a lot of damage to the skull crushers. The khorgorath really struggled to do anything (normally good for me) before being one shotted by the shrine. I think next time more reavers, some knights and a chaos war shrine plus gorepilgrims are needed. Plus a couple of flyers to take out the hag queens to stop the avatar being activated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 I think the best tool of mortal khorne against Daughter of Khaine is the humble blood warrior. Daughter of Khaine hit hard but are not very resilient 'except in khalebron + shrine + mystic shield, but that's another story). Bloodwarriors are very good against this type of foe (glass canon unit with hard hitting power but not resilient). If they strike first, they should be able to kill a respectable amount of sisters, and the retaliation, no matter how hard it is, will just bring more dead girls in return. If your opponent strike first and one-shot your 10 bloodwarriors, their special rule mean they will take out some of them, which mean the DOK army will loose steam faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praecautus Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 There was mystic shield, shrine and that annoying extra roll on unsaved wounds (if that is khalebron?) So it was a bit like a brick wall at times. What really hurt were the MW from non magic sources. I did feel I was holding my own but I was being ground down, those MWs from prayers and auras did a lot of damage. I am going to try my blood warriors again - mainly as I can't face building and painting 40 more reavers. But with a war shrine back up for the ward save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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