Nico Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 It’s impossible to overstate how bad the deletion of Split is. The army has lost its best mechanic and the new summoning (esp as it’s end of next movement phase) is pretty feeble. It’s the worst change in AoS 2. I think Enlightened/Spamgor/Knights in Fatesworn are the ways to go. Chicken at 380 is ridiculous too - such a big turn one liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 Page 99 of the thread for when we note the death of competitive Daemon Tzeentch. How you tease us Changer of Ways! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Countmoore said: For me I’m going to wait till I’ve got everything in hand and Azyr has been updated hen I’ll have a play but 1. New splitting is not a defence move now. It’s an objective grab / board control ability that can and will be ****** down by a good player. 2. Changehost will struggle I think to maintain the number for the double swap due to new points and this is needed to more often than you would think. 3. Tzeentch armies will most likely be salves to darkness armies to be competitive as they have escaped pretty well. 4. Nagash will single handedly stop a TZ list. Dead. The new Nighthaunt have this banshee unit that can unbind a spell per 4 models in the unit and if they do they get stronger in combat. A couple small units of those will shut down most magic lists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Nico said: It’s impossible to overstate how bad the deletion of Split is. The army has lost its best mechanic and the new summoning (esp as it’s end of next movement phase) is pretty feeble. It’s the worst change in AoS 2. I think Enlightened/Spamgor/Knights in Fatesworn are the ways to go. Chicken at 380 is ridiculous too - such a big turn one liability. This....yeah Fatesworn with cheap Acolytes to fill supported by Tzaangors and whatever looks like it will be one of, if the only, way to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormy1486 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Because of a point increase and less hero sniping? Less good and harder to use/spam but not unplayable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilby Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Does anyone know if adding models to a unit to increase it's unit size beyond starting number is/will be allowed? If it was previous you'd have paid for it but with new rules (if it's allowed) I guess you wouldn't. Example: 10 pink horrors, 1 dies, roll 1 in battle shock phase and then roll a 5 to regenerate (icon bearer). Is it breaking any rule to add 5 models and make it a 14/20 size unit? My guess is that there is a rule somewhere preventing it but so many books and erratas now I don't know where to look! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drib Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 13 minutes ago, Gilby said: Does anyone know if adding models to a unit to increase it's unit size beyond starting number is/will be allowed? If it was previous you'd have paid for it but with new rules (if it's allowed) I guess you wouldn't. Example: 10 pink horrors, 1 dies, roll 1 in battle shock phase and then roll a 5 to regenerate (icon bearer). Is it breaking any rule to add 5 models and make it a 14/20 size unit? My guess is that there is a rule somewhere preventing it but so many books and erratas now I don't know where to look! Might come in the GHB, but for now there are no such restrictions as far as I have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countmoore Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 11 hours ago, Gilby said: Does anyone know if adding models to a unit to increase it's unit size beyond starting number is/will be allowed? If it was previous you'd have paid for it but with new rules (if it's allowed) I guess you wouldn't. Example: 10 pink horrors, 1 dies, roll 1 in battle shock phase and then roll a 5 to regenerate (icon bearer). Is it breaking any rule to add 5 models and make it a 14/20 size unit? My guess is that there is a rule somewhere preventing it but so many books and erratas now I don't know where to look! Definitely not in matched play as they said on WHTV but not sure where that is written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh1989 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 How do we think is the best way to maximize the new free summoning? This seems to be the best way to get the points advantage back we lost in the increase. This is where i am at with it at the moment: Lord of Change - 380 (2 spells and +1 to cast reroll 1s bubble) Kiaros Fateweaver - 380 (2 spells and can summon chaos spawn) Guant Summoner - 180 (2 spells, could be swapped for Curseling?) Ogriod Thaumatuge - 180 (1 spell and can summon pink horrors!) Magister - 140 (1 spell and can summon chaos spawn, could swap for tzaangor shaman/blue scribes?) 10 Pink horrors - 200 (1 spell and split summons) 10 Pink horrors - 200 (1 spell and split summons) 10 Pink horrors - 200 (1 spell and split summons) cogs - 60 (+1 spell) balewind - 40 (+1 spell) Gemoids - 40 (seems good) 2000/2000pts With this build your casting 13 spells a turn and you can cast without targets so can have 26 summoning points on the second turn without whatever your opponent is casting and more spells coming out of the increasing units of pinks! i see this as you dropping more horrors every turn and flamers, screamers + chariots every other turn. Just sit with a big box of pink , blue, brims, flamers, screamers, chariots and summon away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyOcean Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 So a couple of thoughts: First, assuming the warscroll remains unchanged, do we think the Thaumaturge is now the MVP? Now, his spell (in addition to doing 6 mortal wounds!) will summon an average of 70 points-worth of models per turn (3.5 x 20pts per horror). Not to mention that those horrors get to blast off their own spell and contribute more summon points. Second, do we think that Malign Sorcery is going to part of "baseline" competitive AoS? I.e. if you're showing up at the store to play a random competitive game, do you think its safe to include Endless Spells, or is that something that needs to be discussed and agreed on every single game? If they are "baseline" then there are some that are just absolute no-brainers in a Tzeentch army. For instance, just bouncing all your wizards up and down on a Balewind on turn 1 when they're out of range to do anything useful is an amazing way to rack up summon points for 40 points. Or the spell portal is a great way to still blast opponents with non-unbindable mortal wound spells, despite the increase to unbind range. I imagine that 1 or 2 of these would be taken in every Tzeentch list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke1705 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Our cheapest battleline that allows us to keep the destiny dice is now the Kairic acolytes at 80 points per squad, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 8 hours ago, BillyOcean said: So a couple of thoughts: First, assuming the warscroll remains unchanged, do we think the Thaumaturge is now the MVP? Now, his spell (in addition to doing 6 mortal wounds!) will summon an average of 70 points-worth of models per turn (3.5 x 20pts per horror). Not to mention that those horrors get to blast off their own spell and contribute more summon points. Second, do we think that Malign Sorcery is going to part of "baseline" competitive AoS? I.e. if you're showing up at the store to play a random competitive game, do you think its safe to include Endless Spells, or is that something that needs to be discussed and agreed on every single game? If they are "baseline" then there are some that are just absolute no-brainers in a Tzeentch army. For instance, just bouncing all your wizards up and down on a Balewind on turn 1 when they're out of range to do anything useful is an amazing way to rack up summon points for 40 points. Or the spell portal is a great way to still blast opponents with non-unbindable mortal wound spells, despite the increase to unbind range. I imagine that 1 or 2 of these would be taken in every Tzeentch list. It absolutely will be baseline for the competitive scene. Ironjawz players are already discussing turn 1 charges with cogs lol balewind is still good as is the portal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 dont know if this has been shared here but... the gaunt summoner technically comes with free 10 pinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Well, the GS has to be within 9" of a realmgate. So free, yes IF there is a realmgate on the table.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 32 minutes ago, Paxter said: dont know if this has been shared here but... the gaunt summoner technically comes with free 10 pinks This rule will most likely be ignored by tournaments and possibly even in casual matched play. Therefore no one is talking about it that much. Not to mention that you need an actual realmgate on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Though worth noting that it looks like free things are free. So looking at abusing our spells which create free things might be the way to go. Curseling, Orgroid, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 normally in events i have been in you can bring 1 terrain piece. with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Endless spell wise... Balewind still seems worth it? +1 save, +1 spell & 6 range seems worth the investment. Spell portal seems limited in use, we don't have a Nagash that can stand next to maximise it. Though I guess you could clump deploy wizards to all use and spew out MWs turn one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 We can stand 5 Wizards next to the Portal. It’s The Campfire of Derps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 It's risky obviously as your opponent can cast back through it, though I guess if the case where that risk is too great you can just not put the portal up. Though throwing out Curseling, Orgroid, LoC, GS MW spells turn one seems pretty bloody nasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Could we push it even further and try and make the list into a Fatesworn warband? Potential to puke out spells out turn could go through the roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Work is slow so I thought I'd try and do a Fatesworn Warband, using the portal. Lord of Change - 380 Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch - 180 Magister - 140 Magister - 140 Magister - 140 Orgroid - 180 Curseling - 160 Kairic Acolytes - 80 Kairic Acolytes - 80 Kairic Acolytes - 80 Kairic Acolytes - 80 Spell Portal - 60 Fatesworn Warband - 160 The list has 280 points left. You could add a Balewin and 3 Skyfires to attempt to snipe some heroes, though I feel like with look out sir there value drops. You could go for 2 lots of blue horrors and a bale wind, or just go for pinks and a balewind. I guess you could also add 4 x 10 Brimstone horrors, for objectives but that seems a waste. The list can cast 10 spells, as well as 6 free arcane bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 11 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said: The list can cast 10 spells, as well as 6 free arcane bolts. So the rule of one is no longer in existence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Well the Fatesworn Warband allows you to bypass the rule of one for Arcane Bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said: Well the Fatesworn Warband allows you to bypass the rule of one for Arcane Bolt. It's just that at the local store the rule of one trumped everything, just like no free units(back then, that is) just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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