Let's chat Disciples of Tzeentch

[Aelfric]

Looks like a Tzeentch v's Tzeentch match-up is going to take a very long time.

[Iradekhorne]

57 minutes ago, Xasz said:

Probably because you get your resource without having to take a choice.

As it stands, you accumulate the relevant points for DoT by doing what you would do anyway.

I especially dislike that your opponents spells are giving you points as well.

This might "force" DoT into always playing the maximum amount of wizards and disregard other options. (and do weird gamey stuff like casting spells without real targets and so on)

In the end, it really depends on the summoning table and it might vary from just a neat feature to oppressively broken. (not to mention that DoT is already one of the best, if not the best army)

Yea, but noone can have 24 points on turn 2 ( or 30 if they can have the extra spell)

On a 1250 points game is gg, you see the table? 6 points one salamander, and the first turn you usually havent anythin in range.

Yep his summon skill isn't passive, but they build points faster than any army

[TheOtherJosh]

3 hours ago, Xasz said:

DoT is already one of the best, if not the best army

Which is why we’re all here talking about them.  

I feel personally that thematically as Tzeentch is basically the god of magic that generating magic points because someone else used magic is ‘appropriate’. Basically the additional magic usage is making an area a “locus of magic” and thinning the barrier between reality and unreality. You might also consider it being a “beacon” of sorts that is calling the Daemons to an area of high magic usage and thinning barriers from the warp into reality.

4 hours ago, Iradekhorne said:

the slann can cast 3 spells per turn[...]

Yep. And then they’re not casting any of their other spells. If they cast anything you’re now down to ~9 points. Because Fly and Reroll failed saves against shooting isn’t bad at all... and then there are all of the other spells that are coming out they would miss out on. 

And puts a seriously large target on a 260 Point unit. So, you’re looking at between ~3 and 12 points a turn. So, that equates to 30 and 120 “reinforcement” equivalent points a turn. And to be able to do that, you have to have spent 420 points (in the current edition) of your initial army allotment for the Slann, and the Astrolith Bearer. So by turn 4 you’re looking at between 120 and 480 point equivalent ... assuming they all make it to turn 4. There is a definite opportunity cost on the Seraphon summoning.

That being said, this being tied to the Slan is also seriously thematic... as the Seraphon are entirely a dream of the Slann in the novels and background fluff.

[Nevvermore]

^{So who else is not looking forward to having to buy 4+ boxes of Blues/Brims to use their Pinks in the future? I was actually pretty happy that splitting cost points because it meant I could save quite a lot of money on smaller Horrors... now it'll be a huge problem. I have 30 Pinks so not only will I have to spend a ton, I'll also have to paint 120 new models! I'm really not sure what I want to do here.}

[AaronWilson]

Well A) You don't HAVE to buy all those horrors, or even run horrors in the first place. B) We're not 100% sure Horrors splitting will work how it currently does, or if they will even split at all will be turned into three separate war scrolls.

If it turns out that we just get a free 60 horrors from 10 pink ones, well let's talk about if it happens. 

Do people expect to see any physical changes to warscrolls? We know points are changing but do we think we will see any rules change. 

[TheOtherJosh]

1 hour ago, Nevvermore said:

^{So who else is not looking forward to having to buy 4+ boxes of Blues/Brims to use their Pinks in the future? I was actually pretty happy that splitting cost points because it meant I could save quite a lot of money on smaller Horrors... now it'll be a huge problem. I have 30 Pinks so not only will I have to spend a ton, I'll also have to paint 120 new models! I'm really not sure what I want to do here.}

I’m expecting stuff to die in droves of units... and there is likelyhood that the split will be tied to some form of summoning resource costs. So the likelyhood is you won’t ever get a full “everything has suddenly died and I have to replace everything now” situation.

Maybe a box or two, to start out. But having a mass “all my pink Horrors on the board just died in a huge cataclysm and I need to replace them all with blues” is really unlikely. (And you’re dealing with board space for placement. If you can’t place them you won’t likely need them either.)

And there’s always the opportunity to sell off your army now and start a new, non-summoning army.  

[Nevvermore]

I don't want to sell my army, played Tzeentch when I started  back in -96 and don't plan on stopping anytime soon  

2 hours ago, AaronWIlson said:

Well A) You don't HAVE to buy all those horrors, or even run horrors in the first place. B) We're not 100% sure Horrors splitting will work how it currently does, or if they will even split at all will be turned into three separate war scrolls.

If it turns out that we just get a free 60 horrors from 10 pink ones, well let's talk about if it happens. 

Do people expect to see any physical changes to warscrolls? We know points are changing but do we think we will see any rules change. 

They will have to change almost all the demon scrolls to remove the summoning spell. Beyond that who knows, but some other factions have gotten changes for sure (Alariella, Great Bray-Shaman for example) so why not?

[ssharkus]

14 hours ago, Glaurung said:

Read the GH2018

Almost nothing changed for FEC.
Tzeentch got hammered, Greater demon now costs 380 and gaunt 160.

LoN are the same, a part for bloodknights that are going down.

 

2 hours ago, Glaurung said:

Only for that shooting phase.

Gaunt is 180 I think, and Horrors went up to 200 per 10

blood knights I don’t remember, more than 200, maybe 220, I’m sorry but I didn’ t have much time to read it all

From Death forums

[Glaurung]

Sorry guys, but almost everything, save mortals and tzaangors, has gone up in points for Tzeentch.

[Calum Todd]

Acolytes went down in points right... right?

[TheOtherJosh]

28 minutes ago, Glaurung said:

Sorry guys, but almost everything, save mortals and tzaangors, has gone up in points for Tzeentch.

At least I don’t have to paint as many units of horrors ...  So there is a slight bright side to the painfulness of more expensive units. 

[Glaurung]

Ehm...

horrors now cost 200 for 10 if I remember correctly, but they can duplicate the moment they die... Now you don’t pay points for blue and brimstone ones...

Yeah, Acolites and Tzaangors went down, I don’t remember the exact number, sorry.

 

[Nevvermore]

3 hours ago, Glaurung said:

Sorry guys, but almost everything, save mortals and tzaangors, has gone up in points for Tzeentch.

Surely stuff like Heralds, Flamers, Chariots and Screamers haven't gone UP in points? They weren't very good to begin with and nobody uses them.

[Tasman]

I've played Tzeentch almost exclusively, at least until Maggotkin was released. It was inevitable that the LoC was going to get a point boost. WAAAAY OP for 300 pts! Will Kairos be the same ala GUOs? I'd be willi.ng to bet that stuff like flamers, chariots etc..... the stuff that nobody uses, get a significant point drop. Enhances sales of stuff that's not really popular. I predicted to my friends that the GS and LoC were going to get a big bump up. Time to start figuring out other ways to -play than GS on vortex, LoC using DD to get unstoppable spells off.  If this sounds like sour grapes, sorry. I play all Chaos and I got real tired of people rage quitting on me for playing Tzeentch.  Nurgle isn't much friendlier at the moment, but at least people have a way to mitigate what happens during the course of a game. And except for the drone/ LoA/blades combo, nothing is really all that OP.

[Glaurung]

18 minutes ago, Nevvermore said:

Surely stuff like Heralds, Flamers, Chariots and Screamers haven't gone UP in points? They weren't very good to begin with and nobody uses them.

Heralds changed, I’m sure, don’t remember if they dropped.

With the new vortex rules, Tzeentch players will need to rethink their lists...

[The Cyclop Owl]

Considering the points increase on everything, I'd be super interested to explore a Tzaangor-based list filled with midweight casters, who will then rack up summoning points and bring pink horrors and LoC to the table. That could potentially become super devious!

Also, the new missile rules might finally make the enlightened viable compared to the skyfires...

PS: if anybody has access to the points list, I'm interested to get a sneak peak. I'm travelling around and can't really check it atm.

[SwashBuccaneer]

Well I have been wanting to get into AoS and been making a Tzeentch list. Finally got one I liked but I might as well not bother buying anything until new points are known. 

Wish the points values would get released ahead of time. Wanted to get an army ready by 2.0 launch bit can scratch that. 

[Malakithe]

16 hours ago, Glaurung said:

Ehm...

horrors now cost 200 for 10 if I remember correctly, but they can duplicate the moment they die... Now you don’t pay points for blue and brimstone ones...

Yeah, Acolites and Tzaangors went down, I don’t remember the exact number, sorry.

 

Wait...Tzaangors went down? Thats going to be terrifying lol

[Lou_Cypher]

200 points for a unit of wizards that may as well have 50 wounds might not be a bad thing...

 

[Stormy1486]

I was considering getting the battleforce, gaunt, orgoid, changling to build towards a 2000 point (semi competitive list.) to be built around my Lord of Change model (which I really enjoyed painting).

i was then going to attach a few quientenstial Tzeentch units (flamers, horrors etc).

is this still going to work in the new edition or is it too early to tell? I can handle points upgrades but concerned about flat out rule changes to the models I’m interested in.

I’m trying to get things bought up before Aus ebay gets hit by the 10% tax on international purchases.

 

[TheOtherJosh]

3 hours ago, Stormy1486 said:

I was considering getting the battleforce, gaunt, orgoid, changling to build towards a 2000 point (semi competitive list.) to be built around my Lord of Change model (which I really enjoyed painting).

i was then going to attach a few quientenstial Tzeentch units (flamers, horrors etc).

is this still going to work in the new edition or is it too early to tell? I can handle points upgrades but concerned about flat out rule changes to the models I’m interested in.

I’m trying to get things bought up before Aus ebay gets hit by the 10% tax on international purchases.

Gaunt and Ogroid are also in the Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower Box set. (Also comes with 8 Kairic Acolytes and 6 Tzaangor, 2 ‘unique’ Pink Horrors that could be run as Heralds with Dagger) And it’s the only non-ebay method to get the Gaunt Summoner’s Familiars.

The Start Collecting Daemons of Tzeentch will give you the materials to either build (or custom kitbash) every other currently available in the Daemons of Tzeentch core. (Screamers, Flamers, Exalted Flamer on Burning chariot, Herald on Burning chariot, Exalted Flamer, Herald, Herald on Disc (kitbash), Blue Scribes [via custom kitbash])

[Lou_Cypher]

Depending on whether or not Kairos' Warscroll changes... the new allies that can be from a different Grand Alliance could be a very good combo with him, yes?

Preferably one where a Critical Dice roll is needed to summon or do something big.

[TheOtherJosh]

13 minutes ago, Lou_Cypher said:

Depending on whether or not Kairos' Warscroll changes... the new allies that can be from a different Grand Alliance could be a very good combo with him, yes?

Preferably one where a Critical Dice roll is needed to summon or do something big.

So ... in doing that you completely forgo any allegiance abilities/battle Traits, and that is likely only for Open/Narrative Play.

But it does make playing that type of game interesting.

[Drib]

Only using the Core Rule, he may keep all Allegiance abilities/battle traits (as with every allies). However the next paragraph add the restriction that the allies for a faction can be found in its battletome or the General's Handbook.

I highly doubt that there will be cross Grand Alliance allies, but then again that sentence would make no sense.

[AverageBoss]

The new line about allies from a different GA is probably just future proofing for if they make an army that can do so. Maybe some Ogre or KO mercs for example.