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Let's chat Disciples of Tzeentch


Nico

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Hi everyone

I'll have the battleforce from tzeentch (it should arrive next week probably) and i have some doubts.

Firstly, which is the normal configuration for tzangoors and for kairic acolytes? My interpretation of the acolytes' scroll is that in the same unit, some models can have paired cursed blades and other models can have the arcanite shied, is that correct? We can have a unit of acolytes with 3 glaives, 4 shields and 3 paired blades? Which is the normal configuration then? (Same for the tzangoors units).
And, trying to keep with tzeentch mortals, which units would improve the army (to 1500pts, and then to 2000pts)? I was thinking of 2 more heroes, Fatemaster to be the general and Ogroid. What's your opinion?

Thanks!

 

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On 1/5/2018 at 7:12 AM, Countmoore said:

For Tzaangor I’d say in every 5 it’s 

2 double handers 

2 shields

1 mutant with two blades

I believe the math favors the Twistbray (champion) also having two blades - the real question is the ratio of 2H to shields... and that likely depends on what size block you are planning to run. 

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After a dozen games with DOT I'm currently in the market for a second spell for the LOC. Currently using firestorm,  probably getting it off 80% of the time but finding myself rolling hardly any 6's and IF i do the damage output is usually disappointing. Second choice was just bolt of tzeentch but I currently have that for my pinks.  

What does everyone else tend to run?

 

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Thx. I'll have to read a bit about kairic then, to see which is the normal configuration.

And regarding ways to improve the army for 1500pts? what's your advice? The box brings something like 1120 points. 2 more leaders? Or something else?

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hi there,

i am getting back into the hobby and bought a bunch of models (i liked for the look) to add to the metal horrors from way back. Models are not yet painted and before I start painting and buying more models I wanted to ask a few questions; also there are some things i would like to add soon (see list)and I consider two General directions:

Option 1 - The Changehost

From my understanding of playing Changehost I guess I would start all units on the table except for the Herald on the disc and the Screamers who i would try to deepstrike to kill or at least hold up strong enemy units, where they occur all the while the Ogroid gets up close. 2 groups of pink/blue/brimstone horrors for objectives and 1 to babysit the Gaunt Summoner (with familiars). That is 9 units for double swap capabilities for the change host ability. Powerful and /or fun?

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300) (not yet bought)
Herald Of Tzeentch On Disc (120) (kit bash)
- Staff of Change 
Herald Of Tzeentch (120) (old metal)
- Ritual Dagger 
The Changeling (140) (old metal)
Gaunt Summoner (120) (with familiars) (built)
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160) (built)

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120) (old metal)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120) (old metal)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120) (built)

Units
6 x Screamers Of Tzeentch (240) (built)
10 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (50) (not yet bought)
10 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (50) (not yet bought)
10 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (50) (not yet bought)
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40) (not yet bought)
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40) (not yet bought)
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40) (not yet bought)

Battalions
Changehost (160)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 150
 

I wanted to ask a number of questions regarding the list, load out and artifacts/powers.

  • In its current form as presented here, is is weak / mid tier / competitive at all? Or better play a generic daemon list without the Changehost?
  • what should be changed in this list to make it stronger within the given general concept?
  • how would you suggest to build a 1000 pts list (to start with painting), e.g. is there any 1000 pts list with the Changeling?

 

Option 2 - Mobile Daemons

In this (great!) thread I have often read that battalions now are overpriced and and I can see where this is coming from. So I pondered how I would like to play without the change host and to me the concept of mobility what have to stay important for a  tzeentch daemon force. So here is a second list: Would it be more fun to throw out Changeling and all blue/brimstone horrors for Shaman and 6 Skyfires? I equally like these models and do not mind to build fewer and more detailed models instead of more horrors, but I wonder if this would be equally strong to the first option?


Leaders
Lord Of Change (300) (not yet bought)
Herald Of Tzeentch (120) (old metal)
- Ritual Dagger 
Herald Of Tzeentch On Disc (120) (kit bash)
- Staff of Change 
Gaunt Summoner (120) (built)
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160) (built)
Tzaangor Shaman (160) (not yet bought)

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120) (old metal)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120) (old metal)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120) (built)

Units
6 x Screamers Of Tzeentch (240) (built)
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (400) (not yet bought)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 115

  • How does this compare to the Changehost or pure Pink Horror + Skyfire lists ( I assume it is much weaker) ?
  • what should be changed in this list to make it stronger within the given general concept?
  • how would you suggest to build a 1000 pts list (to start with painting), e.g. is there any 1000 pts list with this daemon mix?

Thanks for your comments and criticism!

 

Edit: What I currently consider for either list / a start for 1000 pts is this:


Leaders
Herald Of Tzeentch (120)
- Staff of Change 
Herald Of Tzeentch On Disc (120)
- Staff of Change 
Gaunt Summoner (120)
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)

Units
6 x Screamers Of Tzeentch (240)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 61
 

 

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Hi,

 

New Tzeentch player here...I sold my Khorne army and went for something more interesting. Right now I have a lot of arcanite models and three lists ready. Can you look at it and CC? :) Also you can reccomend some spells from book.  btw at our store we play with +- 50 points  (so on 2000 points you can have 2050 etc)...

 

1. list for 1000p for little tournament in local shop. I rally dont like small format games....

Leaders

Lord of change

Curseling - general to go with tzaangors and give tham inspiring presence

battleline:

30x tzaangors

10 acolytes

other.

10x Blue horrors

 

2. Tzaangor coven 2000 points

Leaders

Lord of change

Tzaangor shaman

Gaunt summoner + familiars

battlelines:

30x tzaangor

10x acolytes

10x Acolytes

Other:

6x Enlighted on disk

6x skyfire

Tzaangor coven battalion

3. Tzeentch 2000 points

Leaders

Lord of change

Tzaangor shaman

blue Scribes

gaunt summoner + chaos familiars

Battleline

30x Tzaangor 

10x Acolytes

10x Acolytes

Other

9x Skyfires

vortex

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On 12.01.2018 at 11:54 AM, Okonomiyakimarine said:

hi there,

i am getting back into the hobby and bought a bunch of models (i liked for the look) to add to the metal horrors from way back. Models are not yet painted and before I start painting and buying more models I wanted to ask a few questions; also there are some things i would like to add soon (see list)and I consider two General directions:

Option 1 - The Changehost

Spoiler

 

From my understanding of playing Changehost I guess I would start all units on the table except for the Herald on the disc and the Screamers who i would try to deepstrike to kill or at least hold up strong enemy units, where they occur all the while the Ogroid gets up close. 2 groups of pink/blue/brimstone horrors for objectives and 1 to babysit the Gaunt Summoner (with familiars). That is 9 units for double swap capabilities for the change host ability. Powerful and /or fun?

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300) (not yet bought)
Herald Of Tzeentch On Disc (120) (kit bash)
- Staff of Change 
Herald Of Tzeentch (120) (old metal)
- Ritual Dagger 
The Changeling (140) (old metal)
Gaunt Summoner (120) (with familiars) (built)
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160) (built)

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120) (old metal)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120) (old metal)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120) (built)

Units
6 x Screamers Of Tzeentch (240) (built)
10 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (50) (not yet bought)
10 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (50) (not yet bought)
10 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (50) (not yet bought)
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40) (not yet bought)
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40) (not yet bought)
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40) (not yet bought)

Battalions
Changehost (160)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 150
 

I wanted to ask a number of questions regarding the list, load out and artifacts/powers.

  • In its current form as presented here, is is weak / mid tier / competitive at all? Or better play a generic daemon list without the Changehost?
  • what should be changed in this list to make it stronger within the given general concept?


 

 

Nowadays Changehost is a  strongest Tzeentch list. Basically  you have all covered in terms of models for a good start.  Screamers are pretty mediocre in combat but you can have some fun swapping opportunities with their 16 inch move.  Also imho you can consider getting Kairos later  and swapping Ogroid and Screamers for him.  Another good addition to Changehost would be Blue Scribes for those casting rerolls. 

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12 hours ago, ssharkus said:

Nowadays Changehost is a  strongest Tzeentch list. Basically  you have all covered in terms of models for a good start.  Screamers are pretty mediocre in combat but you can have some fun swapping opportunities with their 16 inch move.  Also imho you can consider getting Kairos later  and swapping Ogroid and Screamers for him.  Another good addition to Changehost would be Blue Scribes for those casting rerolls. 

Many thanks for taking the time to comment and confirm the general direction!

In the meantime I read a lot about bad screamers, but hey... they stay at least for the moment. Yet I wonder if I really should commit to all the chaff units with blue and brimstone horrors. Bit afraid to stare at a painting table and have 60 additional horrors sit there unpainted. What about Exalted Flamers and Burning Chariot instead? It still adds up to 9 daemon of Tzeentch units and horror heroes for the double swap. Any experience and opinions on that? cheers!


Lord Of Change (300)
The Changeling (140)
Herald Of Tzeentch (120)
- Ritual Dagger 
Herald Of Tzeentch On Disc (120)
- Staff of Change 
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
Gaunt Summoner (120)


10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)


1 x Burning Chariots Of Tzeentch (160)
6 x Screamers Of Tzeentch (240)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (120)


Changehost (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100
 

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36 minutes ago, Okonomiyakimarine said:

Many thanks for taking the time to comment and confirm the general direction!

In the meantime I read a lot about bad screamers, but hey... they stay at least for the moment. Yet I wonder if I really should commit to all the chaff units with blue and brimstone horrors. Bit afraid to stare at a painting table and have 60 additional horrors sit there unpainted. What about Exalted Flamers and Burning Chariot instead? It still adds up to 9 daemon of Tzeentch units and horror heroes for the double swap. Any experience and opinions on that? cheers!


Lord Of Change (300)
The Changeling (140)
Herald Of Tzeentch (120)
- Ritual Dagger 
Herald Of Tzeentch On Disc (120)
- Staff of Change 
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
Gaunt Summoner (120)


10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)


1 x Burning Chariots Of Tzeentch (160)
6 x Screamers Of Tzeentch (240)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (120)


Changehost (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100
 

Depends... if you want the most bang for your bucks (points) usual saying is to avoid the flamers and stuff. Horrors in all forms  are pretty good for their points but boring (even if they are painted surprisingly fast).

You should have at least some blue/ brimstones plus reserve points for splitting. This is really useful 

 

Flamers (and Chariots) do add some damage potential apart from Spells and look very cool on the table but are extremely fragile. Screamers might be ok to grab an empty  objective round 4 or 5 but cannot really compete with anything remotely fighty in combat.

But, i Love to see Lists that dare to differ so just try out stuff you have, play as-if with other models to test what you want. Having some larger armies than 2k is always good as you can field different combinations then 

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On 17.1.2018 at 8:35 PM, Myzyrael said:

Depends... if you want the most bang for your bucks (points) usual saying is to avoid the flamers and stuff. Horrors in all forms  are pretty good for their points but boring (even if they are painted surprisingly fast).

You should have at least some blue/ brimstones plus reserve points for splitting. This is really useful 

 

Flamers (and Chariots) do add some damage potential apart from Spells and look very cool on the table but are extremely fragile. Screamers might be ok to grab an empty  objective round 4 or 5 but cannot really compete with anything remotely fighty in combat.

But, i Love to see Lists that dare to differ so just try out stuff you have, play as-if with other models to test what you want. Having some larger armies than 2k is always good as you can field different combinations then 

I understand your feedback mostly as an encouragement to run what I have and add more horrors later as well as replace arcanite heroes. And I am grateful for that. In the future I can see the screamers as coming from reserve / summoning points. Yet here arises the issue of running enough units to allow the double swap, especially if i keep points away for blues and brimstones.

Is there a standard for change host that I should check to fully grasp the basics of the play style?

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So is there a thread of how to deal with the new Nurgle stuff?  I’m running a pretty standard change host, cannot seem to get enough damage through before they just start grinding me down, had multiple characters deleted in 1st or 2nd turn  with the map wide mortal wounds a few times now.  Takes out a lot of our heroes, where all of my damage comes from at least.   

Really trying to focus down models/units since they heal most things back quite quickly.  This resilience combined with the new speed buffs and the (surprisingly large) amount of mortal wound output is really throwing me for a loop. 

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Hey Guys,

I'm currently thinking about making the Disciples of Tzeentch my next project now that my Maggotkin reached 2000 points. 

Being a huge fan of the Kairic Acolytes I was thinking about an all 'human' Disciples army. Is this a viable option? My goal isn't to win any major tournaments, but I'd like to at least have a chance in a regular pick-up game.

My first step would be to collect towards 1000 points. What would be your 'human/mortal' recommendations?

 

 

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On 20/01/2018 at 6:42 AM, Hyperion said:

So is there a thread of how to deal with the new Nurgle stuff?  I’m running a pretty standard change host, cannot seem to get enough damage through before they just start grinding me down, had multiple characters deleted in 1st or 2nd turn  with the map wide mortal wounds a few times now.  Takes out a lot of our heroes, where all of my damage comes from at least.   

Really trying to focus down models/units since they heal most things back quite quickly.  This resilience combined with the new speed buffs and the (surprisingly large) amount of mortal wound output is really throwing me for a loop. 

What sort of list were they running?

Seems that they rely on their hero’s as much as we do for the actual heavy lifting and in the trade off we should come out on top. 

I would say that splitting horrors is a must to help us maintain board and scenario control. 

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Quote

So is there a thread of how to deal with the new Nurgle stuff?  I’m running a pretty standard change host, cannot seem to get enough damage through before they just start grinding me down, had multiple characters deleted in 1st or 2nd turn  with the map wide mortal wounds a few times now.  Takes out a lot of our heroes, where all of my damage comes from at least.   

Really trying to focus down models/units since they heal most things back quite quickly.  This resilience combined with the new speed buffs and the (surprisingly large) amount of mortal wound output is really throwing me for a loop. 

As you said focus fire and target selection will be key.

Also unbinding his key spells and ideally firing them back into the Nurgle will be key (for example stealing Rotigus's Spell by rolling a 9 unbind with the LoC (which works even if 9 doesn't actually unbind the spell).

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8 hours ago, Countmoore said:

You know I always forget the spell steal bit on the LoC

@Nico does this change your dispell priorities?

To be fair - few other armies use interesting spells - Seraphon can get out of unbinding range  for Kroaknado and Sylvaneth have lost the game already vs DoT (not much of an exaggeration).

Yes - I’d be looking to pick up Blades (sadly they actually need to cast it before you can try to unbind). Blades on Brimstones is pretty Horrific as they have two melee attacks and two shooting attacks - just add Damned for Carnage.

Also try to learn whichever debuff Spell they have - particularly Festus’s permanent armour debuff or the good version of Arcane Suggestion.

Rotigus’s Spell will fail to cast pretty often but you’ll want to stop it if it goes off and steal it (as otherwise it will zap your 5 Wound heroes painfully). Unlike the Vomit spell it does hurt Nurgle.

The Curseling could be very useful against Nurgle.

Other than that - Mystic Shield will be as important as ever.

Probably sneak the Blue Scrubs up a little so they can learn spells too.

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I just realised you could steal Foul Regenesis and Troll their wheel to the worst possible place. ???

I think it will be the most interesting match up - Nurgle Ward saves versus DoT magic and their magic combined.

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So I'm quite new to AoS and have been playing a bit of melee Warherd mayhem and decided recently to join the ranks of Tzeentch to have some variety between my armies.

I've decided to go for Daemons of Tzeentch because i find them most compelling among the 3 factions.

I generally only play casual against my mates, who play Stormcast, Lizardmen (can't remember their new name), High Elf and Ironjawz.

How would you guys go about making an army of 1000 points?  I'm pretty set on using the LoC, but 300 points is still a bit much in a 1000 points army...

 

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16 hours ago, PudgeWereHere said:

So I'm quite new to AoS and have been playing a bit of melee Warherd mayhem and decided recently to join the ranks of Tzeentch to have some variety between my armies.

I've decided to go for Daemons of Tzeentch because i find them most compelling among the 3 factions.

I generally only play casual against my mates, who play Stormcast, Lizardmen (can't remember their new name), High Elf and Ironjawz.

How would you guys go about making an army of 1000 points?  I'm pretty set on using the LoC, but 300 points is still a bit much in a 1000 points army...

 

I've been theorizing lists for a little bit and I'm in the same boat as you. 1000pts seems really restrictive. I too want to stick to mostly daemons, not mortals and Tzaangors. Being that, I have questions.

How important are Blues/Brimstones in the list? Since it's 360 for 10 pinks with all the blues and brims that come out of it. Battleline requirements at that point are half your army. You basically get a herald and maybe some Flamers.

Who is your best general? Is the Lord of Change the only one with a command trait?

Are chariots good? The models are kinda janky but they're in the SC! box so might as well use them.

Are exalted flamers worth the points? They seem an odd choice. Maybe for objectives?

Screamers seem really underwhelming. Is there any reason to take them over Flamers or even a chariot?

What battalions should I look at taking for a pure daemon force? Changehost? Conflagration?

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Hi everyone, i'm here for submitting a list based on fatesworn warband. Can you help me in the task of creating a strong list for a tournament in june?

here it is:

Fatesworn (100)

Chaos on daemonic mount (140)
Chaos sorcerer lord (160)
Sayl (120)
Gaunt (120)

18 guerrieri (360)
2*10 marauders (120)
10 kairic (100)
9 knights (320)
3 gorebeast chariot (300)
Spawn (50)
Balewind (100)

total:2000 point

thanks for the support

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